Russia declares war on Ukraine. Live updates from inside Ukraine

reply to post by Xcathdra


There also is that possibility of Russians infiltrating for the sole purpose of provoking authorities in order to give Russia an excuse to invade. The only problem I can see so far concerning that plan is that Ukraine actually has already responded with force and in some instances things got out of control. (a couple nights back in particular) It seems Russia could have used that excuse to invade militarily if it wanted to, especially since these things occurred on the same day their warning was issued. Maybe they require more blood, I have no idea.

It seems like making it look like a "spring" is taking place by "Ukrainians" to start the referendums and annexation process would be the better way to do it IMO, especially since Putin has already ruined his respect from much of the international community. I'm not saying it's right by any means, but it would be the better strategy. I just don't see them doing a military invasion at this point unless there are no other ways to get the agenda done.

ETA- That was interesting about Gorbachev, I had no idea that was taking place. Thanks for sharing.

There are now lots of pictures popping up on Twitter. Apparently journalists have found a large number of military bases, field hospitals and communication equipment.

U.S. Mission to OSCE:#Russia military units have "moved into region & are massing in various locations in vicinity of border"

Putin threatens gas shutdown amid Ukraine standoff

Donetsk (Ukraine) (AFP) - Russian President Vladimir Putin threatened on Thursday to cut off Ukraine's gas unless Europe drummed up the cash to cover its debts and ensure its own supplies in a flaring standoff over the splintered ex-Soviet state. The veteran strongman's most direct warning about deliveries on which EU nations' economies depend came with Ukraine facing a new secession crisis following its loss of Crimea and relations between Moscow and the West plumbing new post-Cold War lows.

I am sure that if this were to happen the situation could change quite dramatically if Russia don't invade by then. Vladimir Putin's contradictory behaviour is quite interesting. He doesn't want Ukraine having close ties with the EU or NATO but he wants the EU to pay for Ukraine's gas supplies.

reply to post by ProfessorT


Ukraine Rejects Russian Gas Imports Before Putin Energy Meeting

Ukraine is halting natural gas imports from Russia over price “aggression” before the world’s biggest exporter of the fuel cuts supplies, raising the risk of disrupted flows to Europe.

Ukraine will stop buying gas this month until a price agreement is reached, Energy Minister Yuri Prodan said in Kiev today. Russian President Vladimir Putin is scheduled to meet advisers and cabinet members to discuss energy cooperation with the neighboring country, which owes more than $2.2 billion for gas supplies through March.

About 15 percent of Europe’s supplies flow through Ukraine’s pipelines from Russia, making the country a linchpin in the continent’s energy security. Ukraine, which buys half its gas from Moscow-based OAO Gazprom, is seeking alternative supplies, including imports from Europe. Putin has used gas as a tool to pressure the government in Kiev to abandon attempts to reorient the economy toward the European Union.

“Europe can relax until September,” Alexander Paraschiy, an analyst at Concorde Capital in Kiev, said by phone. “If Poland and Hungary begin gas deliveries to Ukraine soon, like last year, Ukraine can survive without Russian gas and transit to Europe won’t suffer.”

Click link for remainder of article.

Well it is happening in Odessa now as well.
Massive protests against current government and fascism, celebration of the 70th anniversary of the liberation of Odessa from Nazis.
And not a single Ukrainian flag.

www.youtube.com...

a group of Maidan protesters were not welcomed in Odessa.
www.youtube.com...

ProfessorT
Putin threatens gas shutdown amid Ukraine standoff

Donetsk (Ukraine) (AFP) - Russian President Vladimir Putin threatened on Thursday to cut off Ukraine's gas unless Europe drummed up the cash to cover its debts and ensure its own supplies in a flaring standoff over the splintered ex-Soviet state. The veteran strongman's most direct warning about deliveries on which EU nations' economies depend came with Ukraine facing a new secession crisis following its loss of Crimea and relations between Moscow and the West plumbing new post-Cold War lows.

I am sure that if this were to happen the situation could change quite dramatically if Russia don't invade by then. Vladimir Putin's contradictory behaviour is quite interesting. He doesn't want Ukraine having close ties with the EU or NATO but he wants the EU to pay for Ukraine's gas supplies.

edit on 10-4-2014 by ProfessorT because: (no reason given)

'Given all the discounts Russia has provided in the last four years, Moscow has subsidized Ukraine’s economy to the tune of $35.4 billion, coupled with a $3 billion loan tranche in December last year.

“I would underline – nobody except Russia has done this,” Putin wrote in the letter.

“And what about [our] European partners? Instead of real support for Ukraine – declarations about intentions. Promises without real action.”'

rt.com...

Don't you think Russia has given plenty to revive Ukrainian economy.
Where are the 'friends, democrats, int.community, blah, blah...' they do not give a damn, all talk no actions.
Just more hypocrisy.

cosmonova

ProfessorT
Putin threatens gas shutdown amid Ukraine standoff

Donetsk (Ukraine) (AFP) - Russian President Vladimir Putin threatened on Thursday to cut off Ukraine's gas unless Europe drummed up the cash to cover its debts and ensure its own supplies in a flaring standoff over the splintered ex-Soviet state. The veteran strongman's most direct warning about deliveries on which EU nations' economies depend came with Ukraine facing a new secession crisis following its loss of Crimea and relations between Moscow and the West plumbing new post-Cold War lows.

I am sure that if this were to happen the situation could change quite dramatically if Russia don't invade by then. Vladimir Putin's contradictory behaviour is quite interesting. He doesn't want Ukraine having close ties with the EU or NATO but he wants the EU to pay for Ukraine's gas supplies.

edit on 10-4-2014 by ProfessorT because: (no reason given)

'Given all the discounts Russia has provided in the last four years, Moscow has subsidized Ukraine’s economy to the tune of $35.4 billion, coupled with a $3 billion loan tranche in December last year.

“I would underline – nobody except Russia has done this,” Putin wrote in the letter.

“And what about [our] European partners? Instead of real support for Ukraine – declarations about intentions. Promises without real action.”'

rt.com...

Don't you think Russia has given plenty to revive Ukrainian economy.
Where are the 'friends, democrats, int.community, blah, blah...' they do not give a damn, all talk no actions.
Just more hypocrisy.

Im sorry doesnt look like it was actually a discount well at least not much of one. See Putin claims they dropped the subsidies they were giving Ukraine and that was the reason for the gas hikes. Currently there paying $485.50 for 1,000 cubic metres of blue fuel. The odd thing this is about 100.00 more than what the rest of Europe pays. So either Putin lied and they werent getting subsidies or Putin lied and hes hiking the gas prices to destabilize Ukraine pick one. However i think the Russians have a surprize coming. Looks like Ukraine is shutting off the gas from Russia and making deals to get cheaper gas from Europe. They reverse the gas heads instead of sending to europe they receive it. However this also means Russian gas no longer goes through Ukraine to Europe and thats going to make life interesting.

dragonridr

cosmonova

ProfessorT
Putin threatens gas shutdown amid Ukraine standoff

Donetsk (Ukraine) (AFP) - Russian President Vladimir Putin threatened on Thursday to cut off Ukraine's gas unless Europe drummed up the cash to cover its debts and ensure its own supplies in a flaring standoff over the splintered ex-Soviet state. The veteran strongman's most direct warning about deliveries on which EU nations' economies depend came with Ukraine facing a new secession crisis following its loss of Crimea and relations between Moscow and the West plumbing new post-Cold War lows.

I am sure that if this were to happen the situation could change quite dramatically if Russia don't invade by then. Vladimir Putin's contradictory behaviour is quite interesting. He doesn't want Ukraine having close ties with the EU or NATO but he wants the EU to pay for Ukraine's gas supplies.

edit on 10-4-2014 by ProfessorT because: (no reason given)

'Given all the discounts Russia has provided in the last four years, Moscow has subsidized Ukraine’s economy to the tune of $35.4 billion, coupled with a $3 billion loan tranche in December last year.

“I would underline – nobody except Russia has done this,” Putin wrote in the letter.

“And what about [our] European partners? Instead of real support for Ukraine – declarations about intentions. Promises without real action.”'

rt.com...

Don't you think Russia has given plenty to revive Ukrainian economy.
Where are the 'friends, democrats, int.community, blah, blah...' they do not give a damn, all talk no actions.
Just more hypocrisy.

Im sorry doesnt look like it was actually a discount well at least not much of one. See Putin claims they dropped the subsidies they were giving Ukraine and that was the reason for the gas hikes. Currently there paying $485.50 for 1,000 cubic metres of blue fuel. The odd thing this is about 100.00 more than what the rest of Europe pays. So either Putin lied and they werent getting subsidies or Putin lied and hes hiking the gas prices to destabilize Ukraine pick one. However i think the Russians have a surprize coming. Looks like Ukraine is shutting off the gas from Russia and making deals to get cheaper gas from Europe. They reverse the gas heads instead of sending to europe they receive it. However this also means Russian gas no longer goes through Ukraine to Europe and thats going to make life interesting.

Cheaper gas from Europe? Lol. If that is the case it would be done a long time ago. There is not much gas in Europe, otherwise they would not be so dependant on Russia.

' On April 1st Alexei Miller, the chief executive of Russia’s gas giant, Gazprom, said that the price of Ukraine’s gas was going up by 44%, to $385.5 per tcm.
This is ominous news for Europe. Ukraine already owes Gazprom $1.7 billion, according to Mr Miller. If Ukraine continues not to pay its bills—and without outside help, it cannot—Gazprom can cut it off. Such a dispute need not, in principle, have any effect on the gas that flows through Ukraine to other countries farther west (see map). But if Gazprom reduces the flow of gas to reflect the fact that Ukraine no longer has a right to its 28bcm, and Ukraine takes some of that gas anyway, or if Gazprom shuts down the pipelines going through Ukraine completely, Europe’s supplies get hit. Europe gets 24% of its gas from Russia, and half of that—80bcm a year—passes through Ukraine. An argument between Russia and Ukraine led to the pipelines shutting down for two weeks in January 2009, to much consternation downstream.
In the short term (weeks, or a few months) such a disruption would be less damaging now than it was then. But in the medium term (many months, or a few years) Europe remains highly vulnerable to Russian control over gas supply'.

www.economist.com...


Meantime, Gazprom is getting even bigger.
'Russian state energy giant Gazprom has taken over Kyrgyzstan's KyrgyzGaz natural-gas corporation.'

www.rferl.org...

take a look at the map and see who is Kyrgystan's neighbour. China, surprise, surprise. I guess that tells you something.

and that is a reason and a prelude to war...
sad

reply to post by cosmonova


Yeah i know RT doesnt tell you all the facts but yes Ukraine is making deals to get gas from Europe at a cheaper price. Sad you have the internet but dont use it or do they not let you do searches? By the way Russia is charging them $485 not $385 currently germany pays $380.The only thing Putin is about to do is show europe how unreliable Russian gas is making them go elsewhere. Contrary to what you believe there is other options Europe has oil companies that makes Gazprom look like a mom and pop operation.

Ukraine is about to get reverse gas from Europe at $380-400 per 1 thousand cubic meters. It also plans to start diversification of energy supply. Y.Prodan, an acting Minister of Energy and Coal Industry of the country asserted, following the results of the negotiations with the EU Commissioner for Energy Günther Oettinger.

www.rusmininfo.com...

Wookiep
reply to post by dragonridr

 

Thus, the invasion actually has already begun. It's not you're typical invasion, but Russians have indeed infiltrated Ukraine IMO, and I'm not talking "pro-Russian" Ukrainians. Remember the unidentified "masked men" in Crimea?

Yes, it did. The evil Orcs of Moredor are stomping though the blessed land of the Elfs as we speak. Orcs have already infiltrated Elfland. Thats for sure, it can't be any other way.

Remember that forest that comes alive? Yeap, those guys must like help the Elfs to defend their democracy from those evil commie orcs.

We should like bomb somebody right away. Fuel up the bombers immediately, Elfs need our support.

ProfessorT
Vladimir Putin's contradictory behaviour is quite interesting. He doesn't want Ukraine having close ties with the EU or NATO but he wants the EU to pay for Ukraine's gas supplies.

edit on 10-4-2014 by ProfessorT because: (no reason given)

How is that contradictory? Do you expect not to pay your bills and just getting away with it?

Ukraine is broke and refusing to pay their bills, EU and US are financing Ukrainians anti-Russian actions, so what, Russians should like give their stuff for free?

China already offered to buy all the gas, that's why it's called market economy, and it's up to Russians to decide whom to sell to, and at what prices.

If the puppet government of Ukraine refuses to pay their bills, then their puppet masters better pay those bills or ship gas to Ukraine themselves. All there's to it and nothing contradictory about it.

Pay your bills or don't expect to be handed stuff for free when you choose not to pay. Pretty simple really.

reply to post by renden


Its more along the lines of -

You live in apartment A, your friend lives in apartment B. Friend B is having financial issues and asks friend A for some help. Friend A pays the rent for friend B. The electric company tells friend B he is behind and they are going to shut off his electricity.

The Electric Company then sends a letter to Friend A stating you owe us this much because friend B did not pay his electric bill and you now have to cover it.

There is no logic behind it and the entire argument is without merit.

As for your comment about supporting anti Russian activities you really don't want to go down a road of tit for tat on that topic. Russia would end up shelling out a lot of cash using your logic.

Since Crimea did not have their own military and were a part of Ukraine, Russia actually owes Ukraine for the military equipment that was illegally seized.

Live feed from Donetsk where the deadline ended at noon Ukrainian time i.e GMT+2.

asen_y2k
Live feed from Donetsk where the deadline ended at noon Ukrainian time i.e GMT+2.

The link takes me to the generic youtube page.

Also I sent you a pm.


Also -
Belarus seems to be having internal issues regarding Russia's actions -

Inconsistent with official stance: Belarusian NGOs condemn Russia's annexation of Crimea

The Belarusian National Platform of the Eastern Partnership Civil Society Forum issued an appeal "On the support of the UN Resolution on the territorial integrity of Ukraine".

We, citizens of the Republic of Belarus, a broad spectrum of civil society organizations, political parties, trade unions, non-governmental organizations and initiatives condemn the official position of the Republic of Belarus to the UN General Assembly March 27, 2014 and support the resolution of the territorial integrity of Ukraine, the appeal says.

According to the authors, voting against the resolution of the territorial integrity Ukraine official Belarus:
•
entered into conflict with its earlier articulated position in support of the territorial integrity of Ukraine,

•
demonstrated its disrespect to international treaties,

•
showed their contempt for the Ukrainian government and the people,

•
recognized as legitimate the fact of capturing territory of one state by another one.


The Belarusian authorities have officially supported the position of Russia, making the Belarusian people a hostage of imperial ambitions of its leadership, activists warn.

'We express our support to the UN General Assembly resolution on the territorial integrity of Ukraine, sharing fundamental principles of the UN Statute to respect the sovereignty, unity and territorial integrity of the state. We condemn the actions of Russia in Ukraine, call Russian federation to withdraw troops from the territory of Ukraine and the Crimean peninsula,' the appeal stresses.

For the full text of the appeal click here.

On March, 27 he U.N. General Assembly approved a resolution calling the Crimean referendum to secede from Ukraine invalid. The vote on the resolution was 100-11, with 58 countries abstaining. The 11 nations that voted against the resolution are: Armenia, Belarus, Bolivia, Cuba, North Korea, Nicaragua, Russia, Sudan, Syria, Venezuela, Zimbabwe.

Click link for remainder of the article as well as link to complete UN text.

reply to post by renden

China already offered to buy all the gas, that's why it's called market economy, and it's up to Russians to decide whom to sell to, and at what prices.

Wrong. It is up to the buyer to decide what they are willing to pay. China will bid very low, since the West will not be buying at all. Russia's economy is collapsing, all thanks to Putin.

DJW001
reply to post by renden

 

China already offered to buy all the gas, that's why it's called market economy, and it's up to Russians to decide whom to sell to, and at what prices.

Wrong. It is up to the buyer to decide what they are willing to pay. China will bid very low, since the West will not be buying at all. Russia's economy is collapsing, all thanks to Putin.

It is up to both to haggle it out actually.

kookoos

DJW001
reply to post by renden

 

China already offered to buy all the gas, that's why it's called market economy, and it's up to Russians to decide whom to sell to, and at what prices.

Wrong. It is up to the buyer to decide what they are willing to pay. China will bid very low, since the West will not be buying at all. Russia's economy is collapsing, all thanks to Putin.

It is up to both to haggle it out actually.

True, but since there are other sources for natural gas, it is a buyer's market.