Russia declares war on Ukraine. Live updates from inside Ukraine

reply to post by hopenotfeariswhatweneed


Perhaps, but I don't think Putin would be stupid enough to start WWIII. The answer would be simple, stay out of Ukraine proper. If he wanted to start WWIII by advancing then I believe the whole world would be against him.

It's not so easy to tell NATO to stay out when they signed a treaty with Ukraine for this specific purpose. WWIII could be caused by NOT intervening, IMO. Because of things like THIS. (Read the link)

I do agree with Phoenix, it IS messy, but there are huge implications here on both sides. I truly believe this is up to Putin. He won Crimea, he better be happy with that and stay out of Ukraine.

Wookiep
reply to post by hopenotfeariswhatweneed

 

Perhaps, but I don't think Putin would be stupid enough to start WWIII. The answer would be simple, stay out of Ukraine proper. If he wanted to start WWIII by advancing then I believe the whole world would be against him.

It's not so easy to tell NATO to stay out when they signed a treaty for this specific purpose. WWIII could be caused by NOT intervening, IMO. Because of things like THIS. (Read the link)

I do agree with Phoenix, it IS messy, but there are huge implications here on both sides. I truly believe this is up to Putin. He won Crimea, he better be happy with that and stay out of Ukraine.

edit on 17-3-2014 by Wookiep because: (no reason given)

Vladimir Putin cannot be left to do what he likes and simply invade other countries like he has done with Ukraine. He needs to be sent a clear and consistent message that his actions will not be tolerated in the 21st century. If there was just a shred of legitimacy in Putin's actions no-one would care. Quite frankly our politicians need to grow a pair instead of sending 'strongly worded' statements, they need to show Putin they are willing to use all available options.

Wookiep
reply to post by hopenotfeariswhatweneed

 

Perhaps, but I don't think Putin would be stupid enough to start WWIII. The answer would be simple, stay out of Ukraine proper. If he wanted to start WWIII by advancing then I believe the whole world would be against him.

It's not so easy to tell NATO to stay out when they signed a treaty with Ukraine for this specific purpose. WWIII could be caused by NOT intervening, IMO. Because of things like THIS. (Read the link)

I do agree with Phoenix, it IS messy, but there are huge implications here on both sides. I truly believe this is up to Putin. He won Crimea, he better be happy with that and stay out of Ukraine.

edit on 17-3-2014 by Wookiep because: (no reason given)

Excuse my ignorance, but, can you please show me where NATO signed this treaty with a non-NATO member?

I thought the USA, UK, France, Russia and ofcourse Ukraine signed it, not NATO.

Please correct me by showing their agreement.

There is a reason NATO is NOT in Ukraine, because, they are not members of NATO and NATO have no agreement. That is also why NATO press statement referred to Ukraine as a "valued partner", because, it is just words, dressed up, but in reality NATO have ZERO to do with Ukraine, no agreements, no treaty. They would like to be on Russia's door step, but that is their plan. Putin is NOT stupid, you don't work your way to his position for so long by being stupid.

That is why they are in Lithuania and Poland only, NATO member states.

Please correct my error if I am wrong. Thanks.

Also Russia will NOT enter EU (and NATO) member states of Lithuania and Poland, that is just fear mongering.

Furthermore as we ALL know Ukraine does not have military might to go toe toe with russia but does that mean they should allow Russia further inland into eastern Ukraine ? They have every right to protect it regardless of whether its foolish or not . And here NATO has an obligation to atleast prepare a defensive if Ukraine requests it . Because if NATO doesn't do anything you know what happens next . its other states with again NO military might against russia which is invaded. Also as has been mentioned earlier Nuclear proliferation will increase because if west nato bla bla can't help them in need why would they agree to anything.. Nuclear weapon no worries is the way they will think . So if Russia doesn't stop ( its quite clear they won't) why the hell shouldn't others get involved in helping Ukraine's. Its not just about crimea anymore don't you get that ??

reply to post by ProfessorT


At this point I agree. I think it's more destructive to allow Putin to continue this, whether it be in Ukraine or elsewhere. This is why NATO needs to bring in a defensive force and support the Ukraine army at defending it's borders. Unfortunately, we do have a very spineless and weak president, one of which Putin has played like a harp.

This is quite simple, if Obama and company don't get some balls soon then the entire world will see that NATO is useless. Treaties aren't signed and nukes aren't rid of based on broken promises.

Wookiep
reply to post by ProfessorT

 

At this point I agree. I think it's more destructive to allow Putin to continue this, whether it be in Ukraine or elsewhere. This is why NATO needs to bring in a defensive force and support the Ukraine army at defending it's borders. Unfortunately, we do have a very spineless and weak president, one of which Putin has played like a harp.

This is quite simple, if Obama and company don't get some balls soon then the entire world will see that NATO is useless. Treaties aren't signed and nukes aren't rid of based on broken promises.

hang on...what has obama got to do with NATO decision making ?

reply to post by hopenotfeariswhatweneed


And what has NATO got to do with Ukraine? Nothing officially.

Why are you all babbling about NATO and US being diff and missing the rest of the post . US is a NATO member right and a superpower ? Does he need to tell you about how its goes from obama to nato allies and then lot of thinking and then its NATO as a whole ?

Foxtrot7x
Why are you all babbling about NATO and US being diff and missing the rest of the post . US is a NATO member right and a superpower ? Does he need to tell you about how its goes from obama to nato allies and then lot of thinking and then its NATO as a whole ?

Member yes, influential, yes, offically, just a member.

I do believe the current spokes person / leader of NATO is a Dane.

USA != NATO.

Typical yank thinking.

I also heard recently in the news that yanks claimed to have invented St. Patricks day.

wwwhat?

reply to post by shappy


It's called the Nuclear Non-Proliferation Treaty -

U.S. Department of State

Ukrained joined the treaty in 1994

Wookiep
reply to post by shappy

 

It's called the Nuclear Non-Proliferation Treaty -

U.S. Department of State

Ukrained joined the treaty in 1994

Im talking about the BUDAPEST treaty that everybody was waving about claiming NATO should protect Ukraine under that treaty.

This is the treaty that Ukraine signed to give up its Nuclear weapons in exchange for protection. NOT FROM NATO, but from Russia, Uk, USA, France. NOT NATO. They maybe members of NATO, but the treaty was not signed by NATO. Huge difference.

If NATO had a treaty to protect Ukraine, NATO would be in Ukraine right NOW.

They don't. They can't. That would be overstepping their role. That is why they had to claim Ukraine as a "valued partner". Nothing more.

reply to post by hopenotfeariswhatweneed


Um, well first I said Obama and company. Second, the U.S. has always had a huge geopolitical influence since the creation of NATO and a huge influence with decisions concerning NATO from day 1. C'mon.

Lol keep thinking that way . What does member& influential mean then lol . If you will see a lot of US allies are also NATO members. And I think we are pretty sure other countires nearby russia are wary of it . didnt you hear of sweden wanting to join NATO because of this? You can't keep us out of this and thus not NATO as most NATO members will follow US lead since Russia has scared them.

Foxtrot7x
Lol keep thinking that way . What does member& influential mean then lol . If you will see a lot of US allies are also NATO members. And I think we are pretty sure other countires nearby russia are wary of it . didnt you hear of sweden wanting to join NATO because of this? You can't keep us out of this and thus not NATO as most NATO members will follow US lead since Russia has scared them.

Neighbouring countries of Russia are EU members, quite a difference from Ukraine.

Russia will not invade them. I will bet my savings on it.

Or will know only acknowledge it if Ukraine goes and signs in with NATO and then request aid. And frankly it will sign with NATO for sure now !
Heard the saying - axing your own leg ? Thats what putin did.

Wookiep
reply to post by hopenotfeariswhatweneed

 

Um, well first I said Obama and company. Second, the U.S. has always had a huge geopolitical influence since the creation of NATO and a huge influence with decisions concerning NATO from day 1. C'mon.

edit on 17-3-2014 by Wookiep because: (no reason given)

influence yes...but obama being week does that make NATO weak by association ?

hopenotfeariswhatweneed

Wookiep
reply to post by hopenotfeariswhatweneed

 

Um, well first I said Obama and company. Second, the U.S. has always had a huge geopolitical influence since the creation of NATO and a huge influence with decisions concerning NATO from day 1. C'mon.

edit on 17-3-2014 by Wookiep because: (no reason given)

influence yes...but obama being week does that make NATO weak by association ?

Weak no, unable to do anything LEGALLY, yes.

Just rewatch the statement from NATO. They can do nothing, it is nothing to do with NATO.

hopenotfeariswhatweneed

Wookiep
reply to post by hopenotfeariswhatweneed

 

Um, well first I said Obama and company. Second, the U.S. has always had a huge geopolitical influence since the creation of NATO and a huge influence with decisions concerning NATO from day 1. C'mon.

edit on 17-3-2014 by Wookiep because: (no reason given)

influence yes...but obama being week does that make NATO weak by association ?

Not necessarily, but so far the only NATO country who has really called for any military action is Poland. You don't think that if Obama said "ok let's roll" the rest wouldn't? (or at least most, maybe not France and a couple others) I think you would be wrong if you said no.

@shappy - why don't you go tell poland that. I'm sure they are happily sleeping and not wary of the russia.