Russian helicopters heading to Sevastopol, Ukraine

I hear Obama to speak.

I wonder what arsine BS he will spew out to make the situation worse

crazyewok
I hear Obama to speak.

I wonder what arsine BS he will spew out to make the situation worse

Best thing Obama can do, is keep his mouth shut... Russia said let Syria fight their civil war out and stay out of it, but now that the tides have turned its ok to intervene in another countries civil war when it suits their gas resources and bases..... the hypocrisy !!! If obama is not going to do anything THEN SHUT UP!!

Xcathdra



And I am simply pointing out the hypocrisy.

Using the logic of some members in this thread would allow for the following -
* - Israel could invade their neighbors in an effort to protect themselves.
* - Iran / Syria could be invaded by the west because they represent a direct threat to allies "sphere abroad".
* - Allowing a nation to invade a sovereign nation solely for resources (China take note...).
* - Invading a nation under the guise of national security.
* - Invading a sovereign nation because there happens to be a large group of foreign nationals who moved in (stealth invasion - again take note China).
* - The insinuation by some that the UN would not be able to respond because Russia and China are on the security council. Apparently those who hold that mindset didn't bother to do their homework since the UN Charter allows for nations to defend themselves as well as allowing nations with treaties for defense to act as well.

All examples that have been used in the past by members to go after western nations.

The people in this thread / site have screamed up and down at one time or another based on the above. Now that Russia is engaged in it, the actions seem to be acceptable.

They are completely lost when it comes to the consequences of a modern war. They invoke the use of nuclear weapons as if the radiation / fallout cant cross international boundaries.

There are no winners in war. I agree, however when people cannot think for themselves and simply act because that is what they are told to do becomes problematic. They acknowledge that fact, then ignore it when, again, its being done by Russia.

Question for Russia -
Anything else in the box Pandora?

edit on 28-2-2014 by Xcathdra because: (no reason given)

edit on 28-2-2014 by Xcathdra because: (no reason given)

Again IU dont think many here are cheering Russia

What they are doing is terrible.

But what you expect us to do? Cheer for the USA and EU to go in and stop them?

In your own words

Xcathdra
They are completely lost when it comes to the consequences of a modern war. They invoke the use of nuclear weapons as if the radiation / fallout cant cross international boundaries.

Thats exactly why me and many here want the USA and EU to keep the hell out.

I believe this is a type of tension the world hasn't really seen in 25 years.

I hope cooler heads prevail and we don't hear a bunch of "tough guy" talk from Obama. That would be exactly the wrong thing, as much as it would be with the circumstances reversed. We're both honest to God top world powers.

Conflicting here ..isn't wise. Not unless war for it's own sake has become the goal for some now. Leave it for the Russian/Ukrainians to sort out...and yeah, we all know how that ultimately ends by sheer reality of math, if nothing else. That's just how the cookie crunches tho. We will lose some occasionally and "we" as the western world, have lost the Crimea at a min.

No need to get rash about this. No one had really died here yet, that I'm aware of. I have no doubt there are 100 more Russian troops standing to take the place of any single man to fall right now tho. Not good...and Russia just doesn't play, IMO.

Xcathdra


Tell me, how well did that mindset work for Adolf Hitler?

And Hitler didnt have enough nukes to turn the west into a radioactive waste land.


What Putin doing is terrible.

But unless you want WW3 and to likley DIE then Putins going to take the Crimea.

Wrabbit2000
I believe this is a type of tension the world hasn't really seen in 25 years.

I hope cooler heads prevail and we don't hear a bunch of "tough guy" talk from Obama. That would be exactly the wrong thing, as much as it would be with the circumstances reversed. We're both honest to God top world powers.

Conflicting here ..isn't wise. Not unless war for it's own sake has become the goal for some now. Leave it for the Russian/Ukrainians to sort out...and yeah, we all know how that ultimately ends by sheer reality of math, of nothing else. That's just how the cookie crunches tho. We will some occasionally and "we" as the western world, have lost the Crimea at a min.

No need to get rash about this. No one had really died here yet, that I'm aware of. I have no doubt there are 100 more Russian troops standing to take the place of any single man to fall right now tho. Not good...and Russia just doesn't play, IMO.

edit on 28-2-2014 by Wrabbit2000 because: (no reason given)

When has Obama ever talked tough...and backed it up? I don't really think that's something he even wants to do, or can do. But, I guess we'll see here in a few minutes.

reply to post by crazyewok


Nuclear blackmail...

Xcathdra


"You guys" are the ones hoping Putin starts a war...

I dont see anyone hopeing. Just expecting it.

Xcathdra
So you think its ok for Putin to invade Ukraine?

Again I dont see many cheering for Putin or supporting.

Just resigned to the fact Putins going to do what Putins going to do.
Theres not much we can do to stop him unless you have a better idea? No?

reply to post by crazyewok


And some want Russia to keep out.
If Russia can butt in then it's fair game for all.

reply to post by Catacomb


He talked plenty "tough" when he, Kerry and McCain were foaming at the mouth over Syria. (calling for "limited strikes") Other than that you would be correct. But that Syria thing.. man that really came out of left field and if it weren't for 98% of everyone paying attention in the U.S. strongly opposing it, I believe he and Kerry would have got their wish..

Xcathdra

sosobad



Is it a confirmed invasion or is it because the people of Crimea who consider themselves RUSSIAN asked for help?

Its an invasion when the armed forces of one country enter a sovereign nation without consent. Or so the argument is made by many people when it comes to Us actions.

The people claiming Russian is irrelevant. There are large groups of Americans living in cities / countries around the globe. That does not give the US the right to invade simply because hose Us citizens requested it.

sosobad
Had to ask again because you totally side stepped the question, the pipe line belong to Russia, this has been planned from the offset, when the Ukraine accepted Putins money the ball was put in motion for a violent uprising, remember the phone call from the American ambassador, "# the EU" that is no coincidence, they talked at length about how it will go in their favor, the MSM concentrated on the # the EU part because they didn't want people questioning the phone call. Both sides are as #ed up as each other.

Show the agreement between Russia and Ukraine where it stats Russia can invade Ukraine to seize control of infrastructure in Ukraine. Better yet point out the relevant UN article that allows a nation to invade another over resources / groups of people who identify with another country within the borders of a sovereign nation. The funding of a project does not mean a country can go in and take it. In case you are not familiar with history, that is a large part of the Iraq - Kuwait war. There was a disagreement over joint oil fields, who pumped more out of it and how much money resulted in being lost by Iraq to Kuwait.

sosobad
PS Don't call people hypocrites when you are one yourself

I think I will actually. By all means though, feel free to link to my posts that show my hypocrisy. Simply making the comment does not make it true, contrary to what Putin / ethnic Russians thinks.

edit on 28-2-2014 by Xcathdra because: (no reason given)

Both sides are as #ed up as each other

I don't think you are grasping what I am saying, I am saying this has been the plan from the offset, the phone call was blatant talk of involvement. I could care less about who is right and who is wrong the bit I highlighted should have been a clue to you. I never said they have the right, I think your reading comprehension gets clouded by the old red white and blue at times. I have butted heads with you before on a different account that I am now sadly locked out of, that is how I know you are a hypocrite, you call people anti American if they say anything about the illegal wars but when Russia goes into a country they are bad mkay . No side here has clean hands in this, # Russia, # EU, # NATO,# US they are all as bad as one another.

reply to post by Wrabbit2000

No one had really died here yet, that I'm aware of.

Well, there is the 80 or so protesters and a few cops.. But yeah, let's hope the number doesn't rise due to stupidity.

crazyewok
Again IU dont think many here are cheering Russia

I think you may have missed some posts on the topic then...

crazyewok
What they are doing is terrible.

Agreed

crazyewok
But what you expect us to do? Cheer for the USA and EU to go in and stop them?

As opposed to Russia reinstituting the Soviet Union and holding a hemisphere hostage?

If Ukraine is invaded and requests help, then what? Do you think the UN / EU / US should honor that agreement? Do you think the West should allow Russia to invade a sovereign nation?

In your own words

Xcathdra
They are completely lost when it comes to the consequences of a modern war. They invoke the use of nuclear weapons as if the radiation / fallout cant cross international boundaries.

Thats exactly why me and many here want the USA and EU to keep the hell out.




That comment was directed at the people who don't give adequate regard to history and who think the use of nuclear arms is an automatic I win button. Its directed at those who are making claims that are anything but fact based.

Just like Hitler....

If Russia invades Ukraine, and its allowed, where does it stop? It didn't stop at the Sudetenland, and if allowed to continue, it wont stop with the Crimea.

crazyewok

Xcathdra


Tell me, how well did that mindset work for Adolf Hitler?

And Hitler didnt have enough nukes to turn the west into a radioactive waste land.


What Putin doing is terrible.

But unless you want WW3 and to likley DIE then Putins going to take the Crimea.

This position of yours, right here, is the reason why we have wars. Do you honestly believe using nuclear blackmail to justify an illegal invasion is going to work and not piss off other countries?

crazyewok
Again I dont see many cheering for Putin or supporting.

Lets try this again sicne you are sidestepping the question -

Do you think Russia should invade Ukraine?

crazyewok
Just resigned to the fact Putins going to do what Putins going to do.

Start a war.... oh good.

crazyewok
Theres not much we can do to stop him unless you have a better idea? No?

I'm in favor of defending Ukraine and honoring our agreements with them to guarantee their territorial integrity.

Continually using Hitlers mindset does not work, it has never worked, and non intervention mentality / appeasement wont work here either.

Give them Ukraine and then whats next?

SLAYER69
reply to post by crazyewok

 

Nuclear blackmail...

Well what do you suggest?

We risk killing billions and reducing the USA, UK and France to radioactive craters over a peninsular ?

What Putin doing is terrible, but not worth risking the end of the world over.....

reply to post by Xcathdra


So your happy to risk WW3 and risk billion dead over a speck of land?


As terrible was what Russia is doing I just don't think its worth THAT risk.


If Russia showed signs of going for USA or Britain or Germany then I may sing a different tune. But a small peninsular ? Nope not worth the price.

Wrabbit2000
I believe this is a type of tension the world hasn't really seen in 25 years.

I hope cooler heads prevail and we don't hear a bunch of "tough guy" talk from Obama. That would be exactly the wrong thing, as much as it would be with the circumstances reversed. We're both honest to God top world powers.

Conflicting here ..isn't wise. Not unless war for it's own sake has become the goal for some now. Leave it for the Russian/Ukrainians to sort out...and yeah, we all know how that ultimately ends by sheer reality of math, if nothing else. That's just how the cookie crunches tho. We will lose some occasionally and "we" as the western world, have lost the Crimea at a min.

No need to get rash about this. No one had really died here yet, that I'm aware of. I have no doubt there are 100 more Russian troops standing to take the place of any single man to fall right now tho. Not good...and Russia just doesn't play, IMO.

edit on 28-2-2014 by Wrabbit2000 because: (no reason given)

Least someone on here has a cooler head

More evidence implicating globalist bankers and the IMF in Ukraine's meltdown
source: www.hangthebankers.com...

sosobad
Both sides are as #ed up as each other

I would give the credit to Russia for being that way. Ukraine is not nearly as bad as Russia is at the moment.

sosobad
I don't think you are grasping what I am saying, I am saying this has been the plan from the offset, the phone call was blatant talk of involvement. I could care less about who is right and who is wrong the bit I highlighted should have been a clue to you. I never said they have the right, I think your reading comprehension gets clouded by the old red white and blue at times. I have butted heads with you before on a different account that I am now sadly locked out of, that is how I know you are a hypocrite, you call people anti American if they say anything about the illegal wars but when Russia goes into a country they are bad mkay . No side here has clean hands in this, # Russia, # EU, # NATO,# US they are all as bad as one another.

edit on 28-2-2014 by sosobad because: (no reason given)

No, I understood what you said. I just don't buy into the logic used to arrive at your assumptions.

You tried to insinuate that Ukraine was not being invaded. You tried to justify Russian invasion by claiming they are protecting their gas pipelines.

Im not blinded by the red white and blue. I have no issues reading your posts or understanding what you are trying to push.

I simply am stating your logic is flawed. You are grasping at straws in an effort to justify Russian aggression / invasion towards a sovereign nation.

As I have pointed out before, that mindset did not work for Hitler and it wont work for Putin.