What will you say/do, if you are wrong about Jesus

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posted on Jun, 2 2003 @ 07:01 AM
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I bought a good book on the whole Jesus topic , it was quite cool, it said that Jesus was actually King of the Jews, but he was a monarch not a savior etc... it was really quite good, gives you a different insight into religion if u dont believe all the unbelievable stuff like me... It also includes stuff on freemasons, john the baptist and the knights templar etc

Try it, it's a great book.

The Templar Revelation, Lynn Picknett & Clive Prince, Transworld publishers,1997.




posted on Jun, 2 2003 @ 10:58 AM
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Violence and turning the other cheek is good and those are some very well thought suggestions and very impressive, especiallly on pacmans part. But I was wondering what you guys thought about the initial post of "What would you say or do if you were wrong about Jesus?" Just wondering your thoughts, seeing you are quite intellagent on the turning the other cheek matter..................................................Believer



posted on Jun, 2 2003 @ 02:12 PM
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How can you trust a book written by people just like you. Religion was formed to be a governing body before there were governments. It's just an easy way to control people/power. It did help in raising children etc. I tried hard for a long while to blind myself and believe, but it's just too obvious for me!



posted on Jun, 2 2003 @ 09:00 PM
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What do people mean , when they say'''Controlling the masses???


God does not ask you for money!
Or twist your arm ...............What is wrong with people?

Is it a 'modern'' term that is used,
is it todays fashion!!!......controlling the masses!!!
Or is it one persons way of saying .......i do it my way ,no matter what is real or not!
I dont get it!!!
What does controlling the masses mean???
For those that say 'controlling the masses'
Tell me ......why say it?
I am not controlled by any ''Masses''


So, for those that say ''control the masses'' What does it mean???



posted on Jun, 2 2003 @ 09:47 PM
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Originally posted by believerinchrist
But I was wondering what you guys thought about the initial post of "What would you say or do if you were wrong about Jesus


I already answered this on page 3, but i'll clarify my view.

I do not believe that Jesus is the Saviour. I see him as a guide (prophet) who taught a sound philosophy on the way life should be led.
I believe in a Life Review (not exactly judgement) in which you see all of your chioces/actions and feel the effects of those actions on others AS IF YOU WERE THEM. That is to say, if you did something that hurt another person, you will not only be aware of hurting them, you will know the Hurt as if it is your own.
Therefore, depending on how you live your life, the time after death could be considered 'Heaven' or 'Hell' depending on how much Love or Hate, respectively, that you spread.
And of course, 'hell' is not meant as punishment so much as it is meant to teach and 'heaven' not so much reward as it is reaffirming the Way.
After the Review, I believe in Reincarnation into human consciousness for as long as is necessary/desired, lives being chosen by the Individual in order to further personal development.
I believe in God - but I prefer the term Existence. As 'God' is the sum total of All. He is not a Creator so much as he is Creation. The Act of Creation.
Creator + the act of Creation + the Creation = Existence.

As to the question, what would i do... If I am wrong and Jesus is the Saviour, then all that's in the Bible can be taken as true, then I will ask forgiveness and accept my Fate.



posted on Jun, 3 2003 @ 12:13 AM
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quango, to be totally intellectually honest, a person must advocate one of the following three views of Jesus: 1) Lord, 2) liar, 3) lunatic. (There might be the option of 4) don't know, but that won't apply in this culture.) This assertion was presented some years ago by the author C. S. Lewis. Jesus claimed to be the Son of God (Matthew 25:63 - 25:64, Luke 22:70 - 22:71, John 19:7). There can be no doubt that Jesus was claiming to be the Messiah who was predicted in the Old Testament and what Jesus meant when He stated that He was the Son of God. If Jesus was a "guide (prophet) who taught a sound philosophy on the way life should be led", then He would not have been crucified. So this leaves us with one of three options 1) Jesus was who He said He was - Lord, 2) Jesus was not the Lord, but said that He was and knew that He was not - liar, 3) Jesus was not the Lord and thougt that He was the Lord - lunatic.) Some people attempt to advance the contention that Jesus was mistaken (however for Jesus to be that mistaken would make Him a lunatic.)



posted on Jun, 3 2003 @ 12:39 AM
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Originally posted by jagdflieger
a person must advocate one of the following three views of Jesus: 1) Lord, 2) liar, 3) lunatic.


or 4, the people who recorded his words thought he was the Lord - and thus, were 'lunatics'.



posted on Jun, 3 2003 @ 06:02 AM
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I came out of the dark in 1985. Realized I could not fight by myself anymore. And I am glad I don't need to answer your Q.



posted on Jun, 4 2003 @ 12:04 AM
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Originally posted by helen670
God does not ask you for money!
What does controlling the masses mean???


whenever I go to church there are guys with gold baskets on gold sticks who try to poke me until I give money


controlling the masses = preventing total anarchy due to no moral beliefs or conscious



posted on Jun, 4 2003 @ 12:31 AM
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Originally posted by Tyriffic
I came out of the dark in 1985. Realized I could not fight by myself anymore. And I am glad I don't need to answer your Q.


Yeah, but the question works both ways...
If you do believe Jesus is the Saviour and it turns out you're wrong, what will you say/do?

This question is cool because it allows you to look beyond the subject (religion) and see how you, as a person, deal with being 'wrong'. Do you fight to uphold a belief that is proven wrong, or do you admit your error and work to grow from the experience...



posted on Jun, 4 2003 @ 06:37 AM
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Everything Jesus taught was to the benefit of the Roman Government and its Police patroling on horses.

How can a man benefit from giving all he has to the poor and following christ?
Its all about riot calming, peaceful go with the flow whatever will be will be attitude. Everyone did not gladly except it. Especially the Jews of the day. Many people have been made to convert to christianity in the past and years later their offspring just believe and don't even know why.

If you offered only one kind of candy to your children (say a tootsie roll, my kids won't even try one) and hid all the others. Sooner or later they would try it. It may take them until thier thirty but they will eat it. Thats the way christianity has been promoted as the only option. If you were given a choice of religions people would probably choose the most fun one, if there is a fun one. I guarantee you the best candy has been reserved for someone else.


[Edited on 4-6-2003 by TgSoe]



posted on Jun, 4 2003 @ 06:52 AM
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The jewish sabbath, circumcision, the passover and other religious traditions where all developed to set the Israelites apart from other civilasitions. Especially so whilst in a strange land. This would and did prevent the Israelites from becoming enveloped by their captors through the generations. Nebeuchadnezzer. Sorry its late and I'm tired and going to bed. So I'll post in more detail tommorrow.



posted on Jun, 4 2003 @ 09:15 AM
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Originally posted by Maddas
The jewish sabbath, circumcision, the passover and other religious traditions where all developed to set the Israelites apart from other civilasitions. Especially so whilst in a strange land. This would and did prevent the Israelites from becoming enveloped by their captors through the generations. Nebeuchadnezzer. Sorry its late and I'm tired and going to bed. So I'll post in more detail tommorrow.



Well obviously that didnt work. The Israelites were the most unfaithful bunch, ever.



posted on Jun, 5 2003 @ 01:02 AM
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I'll jump off the cloud and take a nice dive into Lucifer's hot tub! Always guarunteed to be HOTT! lol No if I'm wrong about this then I'll believe in miracles! Honestly!
NWO NWO NWO NWO NWO! Sorry people...just seeing what this does to my bars!!!
HAHAHA



posted on Jun, 5 2003 @ 05:28 AM
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My lasy reply was was trying to address Helens question of religiion controlling the masses.

Firstly, one must take another look at the the old testament and take into account its authorship, regaurding the Yawhist, Elohist, Deuteronomists and the Priests. It is the latter that I intend to show how religion has been used to control the masses.

In 596 the city of Jerusalem fell to Nebuchadnezzer and his Babylonian army. The city was sacked, and, in keeping with policy, a program of deportation into exile began. In the ancient world this policy normally meant the end of a nation's life. In capativity the conqured peolpe tended, after a period of time, to intermarry with their captors and to lose their national identiy. This is what happened when the people of the Northern Kingdom of Israel where resettled after their defeat by Assyria some 130 years earlier.

The Jews of exile, led by their priestly class beginning with Ezekiel and culminating in Nehemiah and Ezera. They rose to meet a national crisis in a way that no captive people had ever done. They did this by primarily asserting the power of the religious tradition of the Jews over the total life of the people. In the process they also edited and rewrote massive parts of their sacred story.

For people to maintain their national identity in captivity, they had to be percived as different. The Priest accomplished this in two primary ways. From the Jewish past they lifted two traditions that had fallen into general disuse - circumcision and the sabbath day observance - and they invested these with such meaning that they became the distingushing marks of a Jew.

A result was the familar seven-day creation story that opens the bible. Written to root in the sabbath day observance in the moment of creation. This part, is in fact one of the last parts of the Old Testament to be written.

Synagogues were buit to indoctrine the coming generation, who would not remember Jerusalem, including in time, those who had never known Jerusalem. The details of worship, the rules of worship, the observance of worship became all important and resulted in creation of much of the Book of Exodus, almost all of the Book of Leviticus, and major portions of the Book of Numbers. The older Yahwist-Elohist-Deuteronomic version of the Hebrew sacred story were thorougly edited to include ancient priestly trations and to affirm the sanctity throughout all Jewish history of the traditions now being requred of faithfull Jews.

The Noah story was altered so that Noah took seven pairs of clean animals and one pair of unclean animals. This would enable Noah to have enough animals available for the ritual sacrifices and still preserve the species.
The story of manna in the wilderness was altered so that the people gathered two days' supply on the sixth day of the week and would not therefore have to work by gathering manna on the sabbath.
The Ten Commandments of Exodus 20 were edited to place the rationale from the newly written creation story into the words of Moses requring the Jews to keep the Holy Sabbath day. All the chronoligies in the Old Testament are from the hands of priestly writers. The story of Abraham was altered to place the origin of the practise of circumcision into the life of the founding father of Israel. Strict dietery laws were written into the Torah as part of the separatist movement. Kosher food is a gift to Jewry of the priestly writer in exile in the late sixth and early fith century B.C.E.

Bascially, one can see that religion is in fact a way of controlling the masses. Anyone who cannot see this needs to open there minds, and look and embrace what God and faith really is. I have only used the Old Testament to give an opinion but it would be easy to see how the New Testament and 'churches' would, and did, and still do, manipulate faith to 'control' a population.

[Edited on 5-6-2003 by Maddas]



posted on Jun, 5 2003 @ 05:35 AM
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Maddas would you care to qoute and furnish us with the source of the information you have just posted.



posted on Jun, 5 2003 @ 05:48 AM
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You will find this information from any reliable site concerning the dead sea scrolls.

Jag most of the research I have come from books, any off the opinions I have evolve with the agreement of many authors. Researching on the net I find dubious since there are to many sites 'preaching' what they need to put a point across.

This information is not 'radical' but is infact is the generally accepted theory of many scholars and churches and christian religions. Yet we still have sects and cults that will say that the pentateuch was written by Moses. One example is the Jehova Witnesses. They will claim that the original book has been copied and re-copied and at sometime lost. The former theory in my previous post better explains some of the irregularities of the bible. Not one author but many, over a very long period of time.

Jag are you aware of the authorship catogories that I have given. They are very common place.

[Edited on 5-6-2003 by Maddas]



posted on Jun, 5 2003 @ 10:09 AM
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I don't think I'm wrong about Jesus, but this thread has been seen all as the same. Share, stomp, discuss, bash, invite, trash. We could juggle all the way to 156 pages. It's kind of like the initial question sparks the same kind of feeling as a baby saying in the womb, "I was just getting used to this place." , when it's born. It's one of the hardest things to face, am I wrong? Or is it? Does it help you correct your mistakes that you move from wrong to right the next time since you have learned the truth in it. The baby was comfortable, but the fear of the unknown made it doubt the future. Nobody told it what would happen. So the baby cries. As it develops through life, he will learn things. Unknown to known. But it's not just who you are, it's what you do. So the baby has grown into a boy who was taught at birth he must have a future. Uncertain for what may come, but knows it will come. Past comes in handy, especially if you use it with the present. Slap on a big past-sesame bun to the burger of presence and what comes next is all about who served you your hamburger. Did you take the juiciest tasting burger or did you settle for the one? I took the one because the best tasting burger will kill you with all that cholesterol. Whew...! Pardon my rambling, but I don't know how else to reach some people. Why would you want to respond to this thread without motivation towards understanding if you are wrong? Is it like something getting under someones skin? Then who has the problem? All I have to say here on is what WILL you say/do, if you ARE wrong about Jesus?



posted on Jun, 5 2003 @ 10:09 PM
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Maddas, again I am mystified. Please post the author's names and which of their publications to which you are refering. That should not be too difficult to do. Also please post what publications from the Watchtower Society you referenced for any stances advocated by the Jehovah Witnesses.



posted on Jun, 6 2003 @ 08:00 AM
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Originally posted by jagdflieger
Maddas, again I am mystified. Please post the author's names and which of their publications to which you are refering. That should not be too difficult to do. Also please post what publications from the Watchtower Society you referenced for any stances advocated by the Jehovah Witnesses.




Honestly Jag, I believe that you think I'm full of crap, posting half truths and BS. You can do the research to find out about the theories I post. But what difference would it make If I gave you 100 names of authors and sites containing information about this ? Nothing, you would still counter my theory by linking be to some pro-christian site that would give a weak argument, something I would compleatly expect to hear as their arguments don't change and I've heard them all. Basically they don't give me the answers.

Concerning the statement of strict Mosesaic authorship, a belief requred from the Jehova Witnesses. This information is generally known ask any Witness that knocks on your door. But to aplease your hunger for proof I will refer you to the Watch Tower publication "All Scripture Is Inspired of God and Benificial" pretty much the textbook of the Witnesses, second only to their 'own' bible.

Here's a fairly informative site concerning what I'm talking about Jag. Wasn't hard to find. Maybe I should have included the name of the theory that I describe, well here it is -Documentary Theory-.

Link





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