Thonis-Heracleion - Ancient Egyptian port-city being revealed by underwater archaeology (pix)

I'm going to let the sources do the talking since I'm no ancient civilization expert.

A brief bit of its history:

Thonis-Heracleion (the Egyptian and Greek names of the city) is a city lost between legend and reality. Before the foundation of Alexandria in 331 BC, the city knew glorious times as the obligatory port of entry to Egypt for all ships coming from the Greek world. It had also a religious importance because of the temple of Amun, which played an important role in rites associated with dynasty continuity. The city was founded probably around the 8th century BC, underwent diverse natural catastrophes, and finally sunk entirely into the depths of the Mediterranean in the 8th century AD.

Prior to its discovery in 2000 by the IEASM, no trace of Thonis-Heracleion had been found. Its name was almost razed from the memory of mankind, only preserved in ancient classic texts and rare inscriptions found on land by archaeologists. The Greek historian Herodotus (5th century BC) tells us of a great temple that was built where the famous hero Herakles first set foot on to Egypt. He also reports of Helen’s visit to Heracleion with her lover Paris before the Trojan War. More than four centuries after Herodotus’ visit to Egypt, the geographer Strabo observed that the city of Heracleion, which possessed the temple of Herakles, is located straight to the east of Canopus at the mouth of the Canopic branch of the River Nile.

There will be a documentary of the Thonis-Heracleion rediscovery airing on May 11, 2013 on ARTE as mentioned here:
TV documentary on Thonis-Heracleion

Unfortunately (for those limited to English like myself) it will be aired in German and French, so hopefully a translated or subtitled version will be available.

The TV documentary provides a fascinating insight into the work of underwater archaeologists and presents the most important discoveries that have been made in the last 13 years in Thonis-Heracleion. The scale and the diversity of the results has amazed experts: "The archaeological evidence is simply overwhelming," says Sir Barry Cunliffe, eminent archaeologist at Oxford University. "By lying untouched and protected by sand on the seafloor for centuries they are brilliantly preserved." Among the finds is the largest known statue of the Egyptian god of the Nile flood (Hapi) and one of the largest known concentrations of ancient ships. Additionally, there are well preserved shrines from the heart of the temple area, votive items and jewelry, coins and finely carved official inscriptions on stone documenting life in the city and exchange with other cultures.

The TV documentary traces the various stages of years of painstaking survey and excavation work. Using 3D animation, the structures of the ancient city become again visible: buildings and temples, ships, piers and jetties and the channel systems are returning to the surface. But the work is far from over: "We are just at the beginning of our research," says Franck Goddio, "we will probably have to continue working for the next 200 years for Thonis-Heracleion to be fully revealed and understood."

I'll post some pics of some artifacts they've already recovered.

The objects recovered from the excavations illustrate the cities’ beauty and glory, the magnificence of their grand temples and the abundance of historic evidence: colossal statues, inscriptions and architectural elements, jewellery and coins, ritual objects and ceramics - a civilization frozen in time.

Franck Goddio
Franck Goddio announced documentary

Those guys sure had an interest in carving stone. They made some great stuff.

I dug up some artifacts and showed them to my old Italian mason, Him having grown up in Italy. He told me that my artifacts were just rocks like the ones in the fields on the family farm in Italy. Well, I took that as a compliment, the artifacts I found aren't great quality, about the same quality as a beginner carving rock in Italy would have carved two thousand plus years ago. Maybe some of those not so great looking artifacts in their fields there are older than the pyramids, or maybe they are carvings of the common man in Italy. Italy was the rock carving capital of the world in it's time around two thousand years ago, not everyone started out as an expert from birth either, they had to practice.

reply to post by rickymouse


We definitely seem to be spoiled with the discoveries that have been made in the last 100 years or so. Pretty amazing... and to think a lot of civilizations were thriving at the same time, in different parts of the world... but "had no communication with each other." but that's another thread for another day, of which there are plenty already on ATS

Here's another link to some info and pictures with the 3d stuff pretty easy to find

huff post article

Thanks for posting this. I had never heard of the place and the artifacts look stunning!

Wow simply amazing! It makes you wonder how many other sunken cities there are! Considering they have already found a few off the coast of India! Im sure human history goes WAY back farther then we could imagine!

Here is another website/newspaper, that has more pictures of some of the discovered artifacts.

www.dailymail.co.uk...

It is known that in the Mediterranean alone there are dozens, upon dozens of small and medium sized cities, and city ports that are underwater, just like have been found in Japan, China and other areas. Most of these cities are not that deep underwater, but there are a few which are very deep underwater.

IMO those cities that have been discovered and are not so deep in the oceans, or seas were covered slowly as the Earth was warming up in between the ice ages, or interglacial periods. As cities were swallowed the survivors built more cities and city ports.

Most human civilizations built cities close to the sea, even in this modern day most large cities are close to water which leaves those cities at the mercy of the sea, and the ever CHANGING climate.

There are records and accounts from some survivors of the Climate Changes that they had to endure and which destroyed entire civilizations which left only some survivors. Survivors that had to keep on carrying on and rebuilt new cities from scratch.

I know there are people and members who claim the Climate Changes we, and the Earth has been experiencing lately are "unsurpassed and rare" but this is not the truth. There are records of even worse and more dramatic Climate Changes which most of us haven't experienced yet, even worse than those of the 2004 Indian ocean tsunami, or the Japan earthquake/tsunami of 2011.

Although the death toll were horrible in these recent disasters, humanity has gone through much worse, and we will have to endure worse dramatic Climate Changes again as human societies had to endure in past ages.

These underwater cities that are found not so deep underwater were imo recent events. There are older cities, such as the one found off the west coast in Cuba which are far older and are far deeper underwater. This underwater city, which covers an area at least 2 kilometers squared, can be found at varying depths between 2,000-2,460 ft underwater. Only massive geological events could have caused entire cities like the one off the Cuban coast to get there, and I am sure we are all familiar with the stories, or if you want legends, of Atlantis.

Many people who have discovered cities underwater have tried to claim "that or this city was Atlantis", some have placed it in the Mediterranean, some in the Pacific, the Andes, and even the Antarctic. But the name of the city itself should tell us where it was, in the Atlantic, hence the name Atlantis. Or maybe the name of the Atlantic ocean was taken from the name of the city itself, as a remembrance of this ancient civilization.

Orthodox archeology/science suggests that sedentarization started around 12,000 BCE, but evidence found all over the world suggests differently. For example, the Sphinx itself shows water erosion, so it seems probable that some time after it was built that water, or the ocean itself slowly took over these areas around the Sphinx and pyramids. You can also see how the head of the Sphinx itself is much too small for the size of it's body, because apparently it was re-carved to give it a resemblance to the face of the pharaoh. So at least the Sphinx itself was found by the Egyptian Pharaoh and his people, but they did not build it.

Unfortunately we do not know if the pyramids themselves, the three main major pyramids, also had water damage because what survived of the casing stones were taken out by the Egyptian people to rebuild their city and houses after the 14th century earthquakes destroyed northern Egypt.

Even ancient texts state that mankind has lived in advanced civilizations many times in the past, and that humans as we are, are at least millions of years old, if not older.

I don't like to quote so much from Wikipedia but since most members do accept it, here we go.

Hindu creationism [edit]

According to Hindu creationism all species on earth including humans have "devolved" or come down from a high state of pure consciousness. Hindu creationists claim that species of plants and animals are material forms adopted by pure consciousness which live an endless cycle of births and rebirths.[9] Ronald Numbers says that: "Hindu Creationists have insisted on the antiquity of humans, who they believe appeared fully formed as long, perhaps, as trillions of years ago."[10] Hindu creationism is a form of old earth creationism, according to Hindu creationists the universe may even be older than billions of years. These views are based on the Vedas which depict an extreme antiquity of the universe and history of the earth.
...

en.wikipedia.org...

Anyway, I am sure with time, and the "consent" of governments we will discover and learn of these very ancient human civilizations that even predate the age of advanced human civilizations as taught by orthodox modern scientific ideology.

reply to post by six67seven


Good one this city is always worth a thread even if found twelve years ago

________________________________________________________________

Other comment from other posters

At present there is no evidence of a city off Cuba, that one was a report that ended up going nowhere.

The one off India, if you mean Cambay, turned out to be a false report as the artifacts being natural and the dating suspect.

Civilizations by the sea, well no they didn't set up by the sea, that is false mene started by a fringe writer to try and support his ideas. Early cultures and civilizations set up next to fresh water (rivers). The first Civ with extensive ocean front property was the Minoan. The Sumerians had only one city near the sea for example.

The idea of lots of early advanced civilization rising and falling, yes and we have detected them. Civs leave absolutely massive archaeological footprints, none have been detected other than the ones we know about now, what we will probably find in the future is more smaller cultures - like GT, Caral and Catalhoyuk.

Originally posted by Hanslune

Other comment from other posters

At present there is no evidence of a city off Cuba, that one was a report that ended up going nowhere.

Wrong. I have personally done threads about it showing sonar scans and 3d images made from those sonar scans as well as videos of the city off the west coast of Cuba.

I can't repost all the images to embed them, but here are some.

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/48dfb4c7982c.jpg[/atsimg]

BTW, the photo of the pyramid can be better seen on the videos i provided than on this photo.

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/208358d3d348.jpg[/atsimg]

The following is a 3d reconstruction of the ruins as they look now.

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/7e093aba7832.jpg[/atsimg]

Notice the symmetry of the structures shown above. There is even a video that shows more parts of this underwater city off Cuba.

The above image comes from this website which is in German.
www.personalvitality.com...

Here is one video that shows more sonar images, and photos that were taken of the structures which I don't think I was able to find before.



Part 1 of a video about the sonar images and photos of the discovery.



Part 2.



Here is a video of a 3d reconstruction of what seems to be the structures found 2,000 + feet underwater off the coast of Cuba.



If you look at the sonar images, and even the photos it does seem that at least some of the structures have more than one level, and the levels above seem to be smaller than the floor level but also mostly with straigh lines.

Here is another video, that although it is in Spanish, you can see several of the pyramids which can be found around the world, and other structures including the ones in the underwater city off the west coast of Cuba.



You can find the above evidence and more at.

Originally posted by Hanslune

The one off India, if you mean Cambay, turned out to be a false report as the artifacts being natural and the dating suspect.

Saturday, 19 January, 2002, 06:33 GMT
Lost city 'could rewrite history'



The city is believed to predate the Harappan civilisation


By BBC News Online's Tom Housden
The remains of what has been described as a huge lost city may force historians and archaeologists to radically reconsider their view of ancient human history.

Marine scientists say archaeological remains discovered 36 metres (120 feet) underwater in the Gulf of Cambay off the western coast of India could be over 9,000 years old.

The vast city - which is five miles long and two miles wide - is believed to predate the oldest known remains in the subcontinent by more than 5,000 years.
...

news.bbc.co.uk...

Originally posted by Hanslune

Civilizations by the sea, well no they didn't set up by the sea, that is false mene started by a fringe writer to try and support his ideas. Early cultures and civilizations set up next to fresh water (rivers). The first Civ with extensive ocean front property was the Minoan. The Sumerians had only one city near the sea for example

The idea of lots of early advanced civilization rising and falling, yes and we have detected them. Civs leave absolutely massive archaeological footprints, none have been detected other than the ones we know about now, what we will probably find in the future is more smaller cultures - like GT, Caral and Catalhoyuk.

And yet you are wrong again. Rivers lead to oceans, and while large civilizations needed to be close to fresh water they also needed a good source of food, and rivers usually can't support the populations of very large cities. Hence the next logical step is to be close to both fresh water, and great food sources, and most LARGE civilizations would be close to the oceans which provide more fish than rivers. Not to mention that the oceans provided, as they do now, the best method for trading with other people and civilizations.

BTW, I didn't say all civilizations, I said most, not all.

From where are you making up these false claims you are coming up with?

Sorry friend you don't seem to have kept up with literature. Go look up the current status, not the original report for these claims.

You appeared to have been mislead by lots of made up stuff. Here's a challenge to you find the three most creditable pieces of factual evidence to support your claim of a city off Cuba, reminder, fact not somebodies opinion.

No cities arose along rivers or other freshwater sources. Take a look at the Harrapa, Han, Egyptian, Sumerian, Maya, Aztec, Incan and other civilizations. The development of agriculture requires water and lots of it.

My source - I have a magical ability - its called reading something other than fringe websites.

What an awesome discovery and unlike that Baltic Sea UFO documentary you know this one will be worth watching just by the fact that they provided the following.

1. Real information was released prior to the documentary release date.
2. Clear pictures were released prior to the documentary release date.

Only when you find something worthwhile do you release the data to get people interested. For some reason the Baltic Sea team decided to go with UFO, Aliens and other SPECULATIONS and no actual facts.

Originally posted by Hanslune
Sorry friend you don't seem to have kept up with literature. Go look up the current status, not the original report for these claims.

wow... The sonar images are proof buddy, plus the videos. Not to mention the videos of pictures of the 3d modeling that was done from the sonar images which show those are obvious ruins of an old city off the coast of Cuba.

I have kept up with this subject over the years, in fact I have been posting about this subject since about 2004 or 2005. I have been a member of this website since 2004, not 2009.

Originally posted by Hanslune
You appeared to have been mislead by lots of made up stuff. Here's a challenge to you find the three most creditable pieces of factual evidence to support your claim of a city off Cuba, reminder, fact not somebodies opinion.

I actually searched online for the claims you made and nothing came up, what actually came up are stories like the one in the newspaper all which say it was a real discovery.

How about you show us proof, not just your claims, and not the claim of someone in a blog but proof of what you are claiming?

Originally posted by Hanslune
No cities arose along rivers or other freshwater sources. Take a look at the Harrapa, Han, Egyptian, Sumerian, Maya, Aztec, Incan and other civilizations. The development of agriculture requires water and lots of it.

My source - I have a magical ability - its called reading something other than fringe websites.

I didn't say there were no cities that arose closer to rivers, but even to this day there are many people and cultures who haven't caught up to the modern world, yet they live close to the oceans because they are and have been for many generations fishermen. Not all, nor most civilizations were farmers, there were many cultures that instead of farming would fish for food, and the seas and oceans also provide, and have provided a more efficient route to trade than rivers, or land.

As to sources, first of all if there were any "fringe websites" that I gave links to was because I found photos from the video of the 3d reconstruction of the sonar images in those websites, not for anything else... The sonar images themselves and the original videos all were taken by Zelitsky and her team.

Heck, three of your own threads are about three different city ports that were found either underwater or buried close to the coast, two of them Egyptian, and a pre-Colombian city port in the Gulf of Mexico...

BTW, here is an example of how with modern technology we can map and even reconstruct ancient city ports that are now underwater.



BTW, this is not how they did the 3d reconstructions for the city off the coast of Cuba, just in case you try to use this as an excuse to ignore, or even dismiss that evidence.

reply to post by ElectricUniverse


Thonis-Heraclion only sank around 1200 years ago so wasn't affected by major sea level rise or the like. This is an entirely different scenario, in some ways similar to the problems that Venice is suffering today.

The Cuba city, well here is a response.......

An underwater city west of Cuba

No further research into this since 2004/2005 - care to take a guess as to why this is?

Originally posted by Flavian
reply to post by ElectricUniverse

 

Thonis-Heraclion only sank around 1200 years ago so wasn't affected by major sea level rise or the like. This is an entirely different scenario, in some ways similar to the problems that Venice is suffering today.

The Cuba city, well here is a response.......

An underwater city west of Cuba

No further research into this since 2004/2005 - care to take a guess as to why this is?

Yeah, i'll take a guess mate...because if they publicised this, they'd also have to admit they know virtually nothing, and what they think they do actually know is wrong.

Those making the decisions to excavate or not, are the high ups who have spent their entire academic careers being wrong...they don't want to admit that to themselves and certainly not to the public.

Ego is more important to these people than accuracy.

reply to post by MysterX


Unfortunately not mate. No one is interested enough to get the funding to go do a proper dive because no one really believes it - it is like the "Baltic Sea Anomaly" in that respect.

The depths, etc do not fit the required time scales (even making allowances and going Neolithic). In fact, there are many problems with that particular site, hence no one wants to waste money excavating it when there are plenty of viable and realistic underwater cities to excavate. This one just doesn't fit, that is all there is to it.

Whereas Thonis-Heraclion is a known location and site of a proper sunken city, historically recorded, etc. And a very interesting one at that.

This complaint about academic research always crops up but the simple fact is that Archeology is like any other science. A theory is proposed and then tested and then conclusions are drawn. When enough evidence points to a current theory being incorrect then that theory is re addressed and reformed. Then the whole process starts again!

Originally posted by Flavian

The Cuba city, well here is a response....

An underwater city west of Cuba

First of all, that's bad archeology. Even with evidence any type of archeological discovery that doesn't agree with mainstream orthodox archeology is claimed by Fitzpatrick-Matthews to be just fiction, never mind that the posts are all claims made by Matthews, this is why it is a blog.

Originally posted by Flavian
No further research into this since 2004/2005 - care to take a guess as to why this is?

First of all that area belongs to a communist dictatorship. The original expedition was to find sunken ships, and instead what they found was very different.

Second of all, I have seen, and posted video interviews in these forums that were done to Cuban archeologists and geologists, in Spanish, living in the island and they all thought that the dictatorship would allow a major expedition to the site, but guess what, apparently the castro brothers changed their minds.

Third of all, if the deals that were struck weren't liked by either or both castro brothers and their thugs, they would break them at any time. Not to mention that having a major international expedition so close to Cuba would bring a lot of problems to the communist dictatorship. To this day they don't allow any independent human rights groups to film in the island, or even tourists that take pictures the dictatorship doesn't want the rest of the world to see. There have been tourists who were caught taking pictures in the island and were considered "threats against the revolution", and were even arrested.

Yes, a major international expedition going there would probably have no real interest in the politics, or what is happening to the people of the island, but such expedition means LOTS of people from all over the world, people who wouldn't have to agree with the politics of the communist dictatorship, unlike people like Michael Moore, and who could very well take pictures of what they saw in Cuba and in their return report, and show what they saw since they would have to eventually go into Cuban cities to get provisions, to eat, etc, etc.

Just because there hasn't been a follow up, in a dictatorship, it doesn't mean it was a hoax... How about instead you prove the sonar images and videos are the hoax instead?...

Originally posted by Flavian
...
The depths, etc do not fit the required time scales (even making allowances and going Neolithic). In fact, there are many problems with that particular site, hence no one wants to waste money excavating it when there are plenty of viable and realistic underwater cities to excavate. This one just doesn't fit, that is all there is to it.
...

Claims, how about instead of claims you give evidence and not "claims"?

BTW, just because you think there is no way it could have ended up down there doesn't make it fiction...

For how long was Troy thought to be "nothing but fiction even to archeologists"?...

reply to post by ElectricUniverse


The geological time frames do not fit any known sites anywhere else in the world. Therefore what do you base claims it is a city on?

UNESCO undertook underwater archeology in the region in late 2012 and explored all sorts of sites all over Cuba but had no interest in that site.

I will happily debate the Cuban city with you ad infinatum but perhaps not a thread about Thonis-Heraclion, eh?

reply to post by six67seven



Amazing images. The nose of the sphinx is exactly like the one of the great sphinx . People have wondered how the nose was broken . Maybe its carved that way