Women in the militar is no different then Women in the Men's bathroom.

I just have to write about this because I thought that statement *quoted from my Grandma* was hillarious.

We were talking about what some friends of mine had said the other night, they being in the military for over 2 decades and having watched it gone from the "Glory years of Reagan" to the "Hell hole of Clinton".

Basically my friends were talking about how Clinton ruined the military by forcing women to be accepted in it. "We need more Women Admirals here, and more ladies there..." And how it drastically effected the efficiency of the Military.

(Do you really think a Male POW would get even half the attention that bum Jessica got?)

First they began by mentioning how bad it is to let women on ships, and I quote:

"At least before you knew that NO one was getting any, now you wonder, 'Is that bastard down the hall sleeping with her?' and jealousy easily broods."

He mentioned how you'd wonder where all these sailors were going (men and women) and you'd later find out that they were kicked off for dating, fraternizing, sex the usual unavoidable things. Salt Peter keeps you from beating your Peter not from having sex when she's right there the whole time.

They and I don't think that to be very efficient nor safe if when we go up against a real enemy (not these bum Iraqis).

And one mentioned how hard it is not to tell the new men that they have no clue what it was like before Women became so in your face, but he can't tell them because they now have to live with the "new military."

He mentioned how if you could save only 1 POW and 1 was a woman, the guy would probably save her first due to nature, which is very unfair, and could even be harmful, for the woman might be a cook and the guy a 7 year veteran of the Navy Seals.

So I was talking to my Grandma about this (Who remembers the real good times, hippies step aside).

And the first thing that came up was "Tail Hook Scandal" where all these guys are were basically charged for harrassment (total bull-#), and my Grandma said it best if you haven't guessed it already.

"Well what did those women expect, what do you think would happen if they just sat around in a Men's bathroom?"

And I say Amen to that...nothing is more true.

A woman in the military should expect condoms flying her way from every direction.

Feminism is stupid, Political Correctness evil, and when WW3 comes you women will understand you are in over your heads.

(In case you think that Jessica babe is your "inspiration" they still haven't confirmed she even touched the rifle, no one of course is left alive to give a different side of the story)

But my Grandma does think there is a place for women in the military, like in WW2, a reserve or logistics support, and not mixed with the guys like they are today.

They fact women are on Subs is appaling, hell you can't pass her in the halls without feeling her up.

HKoT, I never really thought of it like that!! You've got me ready to enlist!! I will agree with you on the political correctness issue, I think Americans should be a little thicker shinned than to spend 24/7 offended. Hell, some people walk around all day waiting to here something offending.( theres a difference in being offensive and insulting) These guys that work around here call me cracker. What the hell do I care? If thats their term for me, at least its not sh#thead or something. (Although, I'm not too sure about that either)

As for women in the military and young Ms. Lynch; I don't think you have to worry about the NOW gang heralding her too much. See, she actually took action and went through an ordeal instead of sitting back on the couch and cheering on the gals of the view. In my opinion, women should be given every right a man has and every responsibility to go along with it. Thats something a lot of people don't get. With rights, come responsibilities and when you start talking that, some people start turning a deaf ear. They want the rights but don't want the responsibilty that comes with using them. If you ask me, Ms. Lynch fought for all our rights and served her country and took responsibilty by enduring the cost. Military action is just that..and not a social event. Just like in our professional lives, we should endeavor to work together and be civilized enough to put aside our urges to mate.

Thats also the reason why I'm appalled at the sensitivity brainwashing courses they send me to here. To be able to accept homosexuallity in the workplace. I don't want homosexuallity in my workplace nor any other sexuallity for that matter. Sex has absolutly nothing to do with anything that goes on here so why should anyone's sexual orientation even be named at any level of these projects? I'm sorry but I could not accept to walk in and see two guys making out..nor two girls..nor a guy and a girl..because none of that has any place here. If we are all to be equals then lets me equal in every sense of the word. Equal rights!!..Equal responsibilities for our actions!!.
So, I think feminism is fine as long as its not used a political weapon but I do hate political correctness so I'm with you on that one because people go so overboard with it.

So, basically, Americans can't have women in the military because American men can't control themselves?


There've been women in the Israeli army for quite some time (same is true of some other countries.) It's a rather sad commentary on US society.

(and for your grandma's note -- my mom was one of those military women during WWII. She mentioned the same sorts of sexual harrassment problems. You'd think that society would have grown up in 60 years or so, wouldn't you?)

Although I am not myself a member of the military, I do work closely with a number of current and former military personnel, many of whom are female. I believe their contributions are totally needed and very valuable.

In terms of female effectiveness in combat, I have both historical and personal perspective: In history, the Russians in WWII employed a large number of female fighters against the Germans, and they were very effective in their combat roles. Indeed, Russian female snipers took a very heavy toll on German forces.

Even today, the Israeli IDF uses a large number of female forces, and the core of its sniper division is female. The IDF, coincidentally, is considered one of the best trained and most effective military forces on the planet.

From personal experience, I have been to Thunder Ranch 3 times, and each course has had at least one female student. Some were better than others, but each one of them was very effective, and in a life or death situation, I would feel very comfortable with any of them at my back. Incidentally, Clint Smith tends to favor female instructors, and at least 3 of his instructors tend to be female (including his wife Heidi). Any of these female instructors would put a USMC Drill Instructor to shame.

Clints wife Heidi incidentally, is one of the most skilled firearms operators I have ever met. I am fully confident that she could take on (and totally embarrass) the average metro SWAT team by herself. I have also seen Heidi successfully engage sniper target to beyond 1000 meters, something that not many male snipers have accomplished.

To find further illumination about woman warriors see link below.


www.usma.edu...'s%20Army%20Corps.htm

It's amazing you'd sacrifice decency because "they can."

Chivalry made European society great, it is the reason that same society took over the world, while the rest of the world was further ahead scientifically, only Europe practiced the code of military ethics that lead to the most civilized age of warfare the world has ever seen.

But no I guess now we just want to see women's breasts be blown off on live tv, so we can woot and cheer as the "Great Game" is played.

It's a shame times have changed so much, but at least I live with the comfort that my grandma is a better woman then you'll ever be men. Or women if you're a woman and reading this and agree with the rest that is spoken here. And she doesn't have to pick up a gun to prove it.

HKoT:

Do you mind if I copy and paste your comments for a few women that I know if military and law enforcement circles? I think they will find it very amusing.

Your ideas of chivalry are exceptionally out of date, and have no bearing on reality in the here and now.

The last time I attended a course at Thunder Ranch, it was the Urban Tactical Rifle course. We had one female student, a 41 year old single mother of 2. She brought an old (but very operational and reliable) M1 carbine to the course, and made quite an impression on everyone with her skill of use. When asked for her reasons for attending, she responded that she had previously attended a course for handgun use, and since she lived in the country alone with her children, if anything disasterous was to befall them, she would be the only one to take action to protect her family. She was interested in learning skills necessary to protect herself and her family.

I find no faults whatsoever in this logic.

In the area where this lady lives, bandits (banditos to be exact) are not uncommon, and on the outside, they could easily see this student as a single middle aged woman, who would make a very easy target. After seeing what she was capable of at Thunder Ranch, anyone who made this assessment of her would die with a very surprised expression on thier face.

Again, I would point out that a significant number of instructors at Thunder Ranch are female: I would further point out that Thunder Ranch is where a good deal of elite law enforcement SWAT teams as well as military Spec Ops receive a good deal of specialized tactical training: Ask any of our Spec Ops or law enforcement personnel who have trained their if they had a problem with an instructor being a woman? Those that ever have had a problem are generally asked to leave, while those more seriously interested in learning skills that can keep them alive (myself included) happily accept training from a woman.

HKoT, I have to ask, do you feel that your masculinity is threatened by women in the military? Knowing that women do not need a protector, that they can take care of themselves, and possibly do a much better job than a male could of protecting them? Does that really bother you that bad???

"Chivalry made European society great, it is the reason that same society took over the world, while the rest of the world was further ahead scientifically, only Europe practiced the code of military ethics that lead to the most civilized age of warfare the world has ever seen." - HKoT

Civilized age of warfare???? Theirs no such thing, Warfare is warfare, do what ever you have to do to win, without pissing of anymore people than needed to. Their is no decency in war, those who give decency to war don't understand the devestating affects it has on people in th long run.

Code of Ethics????? At one point the Americans weren't excepting Surrendering Germans, and Neither were the Germans in WW2. Codes of ethics is for people who aren't lossing a war.

As for women, I've got nothing against them being in the military. If your a man in the military maybe you'll understand why its ok to have them there. Duh.


[Edited on 5/4/2003 by FoxStriker]

I don't know where you get your info Fox but it's all wrong.

As for civilized warfare, what do you call the pagentry of the 1700s? Not even Napoleon really trashed it. It wouldn't be until the Civil War before the boundries would even begin to be pushed, though the crimean war did do its toll.

Why do you think the South never fought a Guerrila war? Honor.

The movie the patriot was horribly wrong and bloated small occurences, into fake "crucial points in history".

Men like that Colonel in the movie "The Patriot" were very rare, and rarely fulfilled their acts more then once, before being executed by one side or the other.

And dragonrider, this coming from the man who thinks we should use just snipers. Bravo *claps sarcastically*

What info is wrong, please tell me.

Pagentry of the 1700's, stupid people shooting at each other. God, if your going to go to war, fight the right way.

[Edited on 5/4/2003 by FoxStriker]

Damn it, read a book for god sakes. I wont result to insulting you, but damn, in the American Revolution, many people used gorilla tactics. The character Mel Gibson played was based on a real person. LOOK IT UP. Militia would attack by ambushing their opponents.

How do I know this, My interest is history. Dont tell me I'm wrong, open up a history book.

I believe sharpshooters have been key in many wars, just as in the Revolutionary war, and we did ambush the british. It was considered bad form to snipe a commander, but we did it. If you say we didn't you are ignorant.

when will people realize that kicking ass has nothing to do with gender?

Maybe when they stop going to one-race-only-allowed-proms.

LoL Lysergic shooting someone at 100 feet is not sniping.

And if you think we did more then that, you're an idiot.

A musket's good range is about 100 feet. After that you'd be lucky to hit a barn.

And MorningtonCrescent it's not about who can kick the most ass, just about decency.

You can only send half the population off anyways, might as well be the male half, but you send both and you are reducing effeciency as pregnant women and couples have to be removed from the battle field.

What does a prom have to do with this, Whites should be allowed to have their "White clubs" and "white proms" if they want to, blacks have their black clubs and gangs.

And dragonrider, this coming from the man who thinks we should use just snipers. Bravo *claps sarcastically* Posted by HKoT

I never said we should just use snipers, I was making an example of how women have been employed in combat in the past. If you would like a more "close combat" oriented example of exemplary female combat forces, go do some research on the female IDF brigades that fought in the Six Days War. They were very instrumental at bringing the Syrian advance to a dead stop.

It is true that many females have been employed as snipers (Heidi Smith at Thunder Ranch is lead instructor on the HIT, High Intensity Tactics chapter of Precision Rifle Course, which many a USMC scout sniper has attended for suplimentary training prior to assignment for "wet" operations)

Oh but dont worry, Heidi is also perfectly at home in a CQB environment, and can handle herself in the Terminator right along side the best SEAL operator.

Snipers refered to other wars more modern, Sharpshooter refered to older wars were they'd single out officers and shoot them in the head. I watched an epsidoe on the History channel called snipers, and it even talked about the sharpshooters in the revolutionary war, and they had a journal of a british commander talking about how it was bad form to shoot officers and not the other soldiers in war. So once again stfu. Yes, lets have honor and stand in lines to be mowed down by the more powerful and better equiped British army, that seems like a GREAT TACTIC!

Hkot you need to get out of the old time thinking, that women need to stay around and let men do the dirty work. It is 2003 now. I see no reason why a women would be any less good in combat than a male would.

You said women shouldnt be allowed in the military because guys cant control them selves. That would be a reason for the men not to be the in military not the women. I dont see how you can blame the women for the mens problem. Ever hear of something called self control?

I greatly hope you change your views on women. They are just as good at stuff as men are. Your gender does not determine whether you will be good at something.

"And MorningtonCrescent it's not about who can kick the most @ss, just about decency." - HKoT

What is so decent about dead bodies all over the ground?

What is so decent about war?

Nothing, because no matter what, people will die.

HKoT- you have probably never gotten into a fight in your life, or else you would have known that when to bodies are in conflict, decency goes out the window. So I don't expect you to know anything about warfare.


[Edited on 5/5/2003 by FoxStriker]

I do like how his replies to mine always have an insult, yes feed me your hate and contempt for me.

I do like this racist remark, very classy.

"What does a prom have to do with this, Whites should be allowed to have their "White clubs" and "white proms" if they want to, blacks have their black clubs and gangs."
What does it have to do? A lot I would imagine as it ties into your view of women, let me guess you expect your wife/future wife to walk 3 feet behind you?

PS: Karma is a crazy thing, if you have a son in the future and he grows up to be a homosexual and has an african american partner, I do hope you learn to let go of you hatred.

[Edited on 5-5-2003 by Lysergic]