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The Indian Su-30 MMK Vs. The F-15's is it a play to get more Raptors?

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posted on Jul, 12 2004 @ 09:06 PM
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According to this weeks AWST the much talked about defeat of F-15's vs the Su-30's flown by India had a few tidbits that were not mentioned before. The pentagon claims that the Alaska based 15's did not have the new long rage active electronically scanned array radars on them. These would have proven to be a sig. advantage and would have allowed the AMRAAMS to be fired off first.

The article also went on to indicate that the 15's huge radar signature was making it very vunerable to the AA-10 Alamo missile that the Indians carried. In another intersting tidbit it also said they found that its IR signature was 3x that of most fighters.

Now I am a huge fan of the RAPTOR, but this just smacks of a set up. Why be so public about a defeat. Why provide such details about vunerabilities unless you were trying to make the point that we need more Raptors.


[edit on 12-7-2004 by FredT]




posted on Jul, 12 2004 @ 10:06 PM
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I remember hearing about this not too long ago....From my point of view I think it has to be a ploy...the "top guns" of the air force have been practicaly begging on their hands and knees for some new equipment for their average fighter pilots - Almost everything in our arsenal, at least that which hasn't gone public yet or only in testing mode, is from the cold war and prior....with the recent formation of the EU and with terrorists threats escalating along with other rising threats, I think someone finally decided to push the knife in someone's back

Now I doubt that we're gonna be seeing the show-stoppers role of the runway yet, but increased raptor production? That's pretty much all they're left with....unmanned aircraft are advanced, but from what the public knows, still with flaws

I have a distant cousin who flys a Raptor....he went to Iraq for a few months and couldn't say a damn thing about what he was doing, whereas when I knew other father's pilots growing up in the army who flew the less elite aircraft, like say the C-130 Hercules, they would be going overseas to support one of the many wars we've had and it was a dinner conversation - I know some things have higher levels of secrecy than others for a good reason, and my point here is this: That the USAF needs to move the raptor into the same catagory as any of its other aircraft, squeeze the penny bank, produce more and move on to the next elite fighter, or we will be obsolete...

And whoever made that descision to make that a public statement either slipped up or put the ball in motion



posted on Jul, 13 2004 @ 01:37 AM
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the long range radar was probably not equiped because the US airforce wants to keep info on it hush hush.

IMHO, it was a combination of the fact that India was using their very best pilots against a normal squad of ours, them having superior numbers in the drills, and a lack of the best US equipment (if what you said is true).

I don't think these guys would go in there and try to lose so the AF could get a few dozen more Raptors. I know a few pilots, and these guys (in general) have ego's that don't let them do things like blowing training missions.

on the other hand, I wouldn't exactly be baffled if the USAF did try to pull this off.



posted on Jul, 13 2004 @ 04:19 AM
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I think it was a phony cuz just as it was over it was on every news channel here in the US and it got congress and the pentagon talking I mean the lack of US equipment of the F-15



posted on Jul, 13 2004 @ 06:10 AM
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yes, true. USAF lost against IAF just to get more funding for F22. We have already spent millionssssssssss for this project & there was budget cut due to war. this was the only way to lose against someone & get moer funds for F22



posted on Jul, 14 2004 @ 12:02 AM
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Originally posted by American Mad Man
the long range radar was probably not equiped because the US airforce wants to keep info on it hush hush.


I don't know about that one. Aviation Leak and Space Tech has an article at least once a month. I agree they were probably facing the cream of the Indian AF. But they were not flying aginst reseverists. The 15-C's were based out of Elmendorf. I had thought that that unit did have the ASEA equipped 15's. Guess I was wrong. If they were, then it was a total set up



posted on Jul, 14 2004 @ 12:29 AM
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Not to sound rude - but has anyone here actually been in the military or been a military brat? Things are not as grandiose as they may seem......many pilots live the life of bordem and day-in day-out job routines.....and those pilots probablly constitute maybe 90% of our working Air Force......to think that the air force actually selecteively denies the advancement of our air force is utter BS.....most of the pople protecting our country for the air force are volunteers, not some covert ops, although they no doubt exist.......what we've got is what we've got, and the generals and commandors who ask for more are either listened to or not....simple as that.....the American people will find out soon enough whether or not what we need as an obselte nation will be met or denied

There is no middle ground or conspiracy......we have land that we own on this place called earth and we are bound to protect it, regardless of what its people know or don't know.....to say that it is of little concern to our gov't or that it is a cover-up is just a blind lie

EDIT: I had a little to drink last night when I posted this - lol - but I think it's still true IMHO, but sorry if it is written with a little bit of an attitude - I get defensive when I'm drunk

[edit on 7/14/2004 by EnronOutrunHomerun]

[edit on 7/14/2004 by EnronOutrunHomerun]



posted on Jul, 19 2004 @ 05:59 AM
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Originally posted by FredT
.....but this just smacks of a set up.
[edit on 12-7-2004 by FredT]


....cor, and with the USA now getting & spending the biggest military budgets ever in the history of mankind......do you reckon?



(and by the way WTF has "the 'recent formation of the EU' got to do with anything? Have some of you folks been reading too many of those 'The coming war between the USA & EU' books? ....and what's your idea of recent? It all began in 1951, became the EEC in 1957 although technically not becoming the EU until 1992....but that is a mere technicality.)



posted on Jul, 19 2004 @ 08:37 AM
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Originally posted by FredT
According to this weeks AWST the much talked about defeat of F-15's vs the Su-30's flown by India had a few tidbits that were not mentioned before. The pentagon claims that the Alaska based 15's did not have the new long rage active electronically scanned array radars on them. These would have proven to be a sig. advantage and would have allowed the AMRAAMS to be fired off first.

The article also went on to indicate that the 15's huge radar signature was making it very vunerable to the AA-10 Alamo missile that the Indians carried. In another intersting tidbit it also said they found that its IR signature was 3x that of most fighters.

Now I am a huge fan of the RAPTOR, but this just smacks of a set up. Why be so public about a defeat. Why provide such details about vunerabilities unless you were trying to make the point that we need more Raptors.


[edit on 12-7-2004 by FredT]


POLITICS, Fred, Politics! Remember how the chain of command works. The military is controlled by the US Defense Department, which is ultimatly responsible to the President. The President is a politician first and foremost. War in principle is nothing more then the use of armed fighting forces to exersize political will (offensively or defensively).

If you prove the F-15 is becoming vulnerable to newer enemy aircraft, you prove why the Raptor is so urgently needed. Therefore you get more funds for the F-22 program, which will replace the F-15. As you obseverved, this is a set up. Now that you see the politics in play, you know why.

Tim
ATS Director of Counter-Ignorance

[edit on 19-7-2004 by ghost]



posted on Jul, 22 2004 @ 07:04 PM
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hey if the F-15 had a speed advantage why didnt it use it?



posted on Jul, 27 2004 @ 03:40 AM
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The F-15 went down tothe Su-30MKK which is not even the best plane India's got.I wonder about its fate when it takes on the Su-30MKI(read as Su-37)



posted on Jul, 27 2004 @ 07:00 AM
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Originally posted by Stealth Spy
The F-15 went down tothe Su-30MKK which is not even the best plane India's got.I wonder about its fate when it takes on the Su-30MKI(read as Su-37)


Did you read the above posts or do you ignore them this encounter means nothing in a real war things would be different plus how many Su-37 or Su-30's does India have?



posted on Jul, 27 2004 @ 01:49 PM
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I have said this before in another thread... its like playing basketball with a 4 year old retarded kid with the world watching. cmon you gotta make it look good for him. It sounds absurd to me that the usaf got 'showed up' by the indian air force, it was just a show plain and simple for the rest of the world to underestimate the usaf. Had it been a real 'game' their underestimation will catch up to them real fast. peace



posted on Jul, 28 2004 @ 01:19 AM
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I hope this was a plan to aquire more F/A-22s. The USAF needs to order more of them.



posted on Jul, 28 2004 @ 02:10 AM
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Originally posted by jetsetter
I hope this was a plan to aquire more F/A-22s. The USAF needs to order more of them.


The more they order, the cheaper they become indiviualy. The US needs way more than they are projecting.



posted on Jul, 28 2004 @ 11:10 AM
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Yeah the Pentagon approved 290-339 Raptor for the USAF they need more raptors IMHO im thinking a number close to 500-600. Cuz the F-15 is getting really old and has to be replaced entirely soon.



posted on Jul, 29 2004 @ 01:02 AM
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The question is the JSF too good? I wonder if that is having an effect on the overall numbers being batter around. From a cost and maintnence standpoint, the JSF may be a better deal for the AF. not quite 2 for the price of one but if the JSF is produced in huge numbers the unit cost could go waaaay down



posted on Jul, 29 2004 @ 01:34 AM
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But people have to understand this THE JSF IS NOT AN AIR SUPERIORITY FIGHTER the jsf is good but id cant replace the raptor cuz they are not made for the same role the jsf is an attack plane and the raptor is an air superiority fighter they work together on would not be good by itself.



posted on Jul, 29 2004 @ 02:14 AM
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Originally posted by WestPoint23
But people have to understand this THE JSF IS NOT AN AIR SUPERIORITY FIGHTER the jsf is good but id cant replace the raptor cuz they are not made for the same role the jsf is an attack plane and the raptor is an air superiority fighter they work together on would not be good by itself.


I do get that, however, the JSF will have an air to air role as well. What I was trying to point out was that elements in the Pentagon may persue more JSF than Raptors because of cost issues.



posted on Jul, 29 2004 @ 02:24 AM
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Yay for India, my mother land ! Ghandi Ji would be proud.

lol

I dont know much about jet-fighters, but the Pentegon releasing this is highly suspect....

Deep





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