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Russia Lashes Out at NATO for Protecting Afghan Drug Production

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posted on Mar, 1 2010 @ 03:07 PM
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Originally posted by SLAYER69
reply to post by jam321
 


You know I was thinking the same thing. What else is there in Afghanistan to sell?

Sand?

There is no oil. So whats the population to do?


[edit on 28-2-2010 by SLAYER69]



Well there is "some" Oil & Gas in Afghanistan for exploration, not in the same leauge as other neighbouring countries, but it's there to exploit - especially the natural gas.

Beside the obvious drug production - morphine to big Pharma and Heroine for the black market - there is something more interesting in Afghanistan:

The rare metals for high tech products such as cesium, lithium, niobium, and tantalum. Tantalum - Coltan, is a rare element essential in the manufacture of cell phones, computers, and digital cameras. Lithium is necessary for high-tech batteries, specialty glasses and ceramics, and for some high-performance metal alloys. Niobium is used in steel alloys - for example: jet aircraft engine and power generation turbine blades, superconducting magnets, advanced optics & camera lenses and electronic capacitors etc.

So in Afghanistan there's apparently a wealth of minerals and they also have hydrocarbon resources like natural gas, petroleum, coal.

Among the minerals found in abundance are gold, copper, iron, mercury, lead, silver, chromite, talc, barites, sulfur, lead, zinc, iron ore, salt, precious and semiprecious stone AND URANIUM.

They can sell all this mineral to the International markets or maybe support factories for high tech production with raw material to India?

So I guess part of the future income for the Afghani people could be a modern mining operations of these precious minerals and stones?

There is an old US Geological Survey published somewhere on the net, I'm going to see if I can find it again to show you if you are interested?


Afghanistan is endowed with natural resources, including extensive deposits of natural gas, petroleum, coal, copper, chromite, talc, barites, sulfur, lead, zinc, iron ore, salt, and precious and semiprecious stones. Unfortunately, ongoing instability in certain areas of the country, remote and rugged terrain, and an inadequate infrastructure and transportation network have made mining these resources difficult, and there have been few serious attempts to further explore or exploit them.

www.state.gov...



Undiscovered Resources in Afghanistan

Afghanistan has significant amounts of undiscovered non-fuel mineral resources according to the U.S. Geological Survey's 2007 assessment, unveiled today at the 3rd annual U.S.-Afghan Business Matchmaking Conference organized by the Afghan-American Chamber of Commerce in Washington, D.C.
---
"Afghanistan's natural resources have a quality comparable to the highest-class minerals of the entire region," said Afghanistan's Ambassador to the United States Said T. Jawad. "We are grateful to the efforts of the USGS and our Ministry of Mines in allowing global investors an opportunity to receive the latest information on their assessment for more informed business decisions."

thesop.org...


Afghan Minerals
www.bgs.ac.uk...



Afghanistan: Natural Resources and Energy


Institute for Afghan Studies



posted on Mar, 1 2010 @ 05:02 PM
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reply to post by December_Rain
 


I feel that they should make the destruction of Poppy field's a priority.
It may be a lot of farmer's source of income, but drug use shouldnt be tolirated.
And im sure their religion forbid's it..?



posted on Mar, 1 2010 @ 05:47 PM
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Originally posted by djusdjus
Why dismantle the mechanisms that keep the dogs out of your own yard?Apparently many haven't a clue as to what must be done to keep the american way of life going and god forbid any of it should be taken away from you.


You are not keeping anybody out of your yard, but only delaying the inevitable. The warlords and drug traffickers who are allied with US right now can turn against you very quickly. In the end there is little difference between them and the Taliban. Remember when CIA worked hand-in-hand with the Mujahadeen and Bin laden during the Soviet War in Afghanistan? Back then opposing the USSR at every step was the priority. Did those "mechanisms" keep the dogs out of your yard on 9/11?



Originally posted by djusdjus
Do many have any idea about how humanity works at all? Clearly not when they are calling to be disarmed so that the forces outside can come in and do what?


Who is talking about disarmament? One can support the US mission in Afghanistan, yet oppose the strategy.



Originally posted by djusdjus
Do you think russia cares about you americans?


Russia, US and every other country obviously care about themselves first and foremost. But that is no excuse for putting fingers in your ears and pretending that nobody besides you has any concerns about your actions. The US is not alone in the world, and if it outright ignores everyone else's concerns it will eventually find itself isolated when it needs help. And it will need help at some point.

Just so you know - cooperation with Russia is key for the US and its allies in Afghanistan. Russia allows use of its airspace and sometimes land for supplying the troops in Afghanistan. Most other supply routes (such as through Pakistan border) have been cut off. You ignore Russia long enough, and you will find yourself ignored. Brilliant strategy you got there.



Originally posted by djusdjus
There's nothing they'd like more than to have the control of afghanistan that the US has.


Are you kidding? Why would Russia want to control that God foresaken hellhole that would drain its budget dry? Getting out of that dump was the best decision Gorbachev ever made, and no politician in Russia would even consider going back there.



Originally posted by djusdjus
Where do you think all the heroin and hashish in the USA came from when the Russians were running their war in Afghanistan?


Do you have any proof or sources to back that up?



Originally posted by djusdjus
And who cares about weak minded drug addicts anyway? Let them rot.


Criminal activities beget other criminal activities. Addicts rob to get the money, traffickers purchase weapons and face off against police and authorities, etc...



Originally posted by djusdjus
Let russia drown in heroin.


What would you say if Columbia or Mexico told US and DEA and CIA to shove off and completely refused to cooperate with the US Drug War? "Let the US drown in coc aine" they would say, "what business is it to us".

You talk about the need for the US to be involved militarily around the world, and yet your ideas are more about isolationism - isolate US from the concerns of others. Sure you can do whatever you want and refuse to listen to others, but then don't expect the world to play your fiddle and listen to you when something like 9/11 occurs.



Originally posted by djusdjus
If they are strong enough as a people, it will be inconsequential and they will not have an endemic problem with it. No demand, no supply.


This has nothing to do about people's strength and self control. Every single society in the world has similar social problems. They can never be completely solved, by they can be eased at times by cooperation. Don't pretend like the US and its people are perfect and that it is everyone else whose mentality or behavior isn't up to the standard.


[edit on 1-3-2010 by maloy]



posted on Mar, 1 2010 @ 07:03 PM
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reply to post by December_Rain
 


WOW I just realized the bigger picture of Afghan invasion, or at least its possibility. Once Taliban managed to get rid of most of those farms America came down to save the day.

I guess the plan is to destroy Russia internally in the long run. Very nice plan, but is it gonna work?



posted on Mar, 1 2010 @ 09:24 PM
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Originally posted by maloy

Originally posted by djusdjus
Why dismantle the mechanisms that keep the dogs out of your own yard?Apparently many haven't a clue as to what must be done to keep the american way of life going and god forbid any of it should be taken away from you.


You are not keeping anybody out of your yard, but only delaying the inevitable. The warlords and drug traffickers who are allied with US right now can turn against you very quickly. In the end there is little difference between them and the Taliban. Remember when CIA worked hand-in-hand with the Mujahadeen and Bin laden during the Soviet War in Afghanistan? Back then opposing the USSR at every step was the priority. Did those "mechanisms" keep the dogs out of your yard on 9/11?



Originally posted by djusdjus
Do many have any idea about how humanity works at all? Clearly not when they are calling to be disarmed so that the forces outside can come in and do what?


Who is talking about disarmament? One can support the US mission in Afghanistan, yet oppose the strategy.



Originally posted by djusdjus
Do you think russia cares about you americans?


Russia, US and every other country obviously care about themselves first and foremost. But that is no excuse for putting fingers in your ears and pretending that nobody besides you has any concerns about your actions. The US is not alone in the world, and if it outright ignores everyone else's concerns it will eventually find itself isolated when it needs help. And it will need help at some point.

Just so you know - cooperation with Russia is key for the US and its allies in Afghanistan. Russia allows use of its airspace and sometimes land for supplying the troops in Afghanistan. Most other supply routes (such as through Pakistan border) have been cut off. You ignore Russia long enough, and you will find yourself ignored. Brilliant strategy you got there.



Originally posted by djusdjus
There's nothing they'd like more than to have the control of afghanistan that the US has.


Are you kidding? Why would Russia want to control that God foresaken hellhole that would drain its budget dry? Getting out of that dump was the best decision Gorbachev ever made, and no politician in Russia would even consider going back there.



Originally posted by djusdjus
Where do you think all the heroin and hashish in the USA came from when the Russians were running their war in Afghanistan?


Do you have any proof or sources to back that up?



Originally posted by djusdjus
And who cares about weak minded drug addicts anyway? Let them rot.


Criminal activities beget other criminal activities. Addicts rob to get the money, traffickers purchase weapons and face off against police and authorities, etc...



Originally posted by djusdjus
Let russia drown in heroin.


What would you say if Columbia or Mexico told US and DEA and CIA to shove off and completely refused to cooperate with the US Drug War? "Let the US drown in coc aine" they would say, "what business is it to us".

You talk about the need for the US to be involved militarily around the world, and yet your ideas are more about isolationism - isolate US from the concerns of others. Sure you can do whatever you want and refuse to listen to others, but then don't expect the world to play your fiddle and listen to you when something like 9/11 occurs.



Originally posted by djusdjus
If they are strong enough as a people, it will be inconsequential and they will not have an endemic problem with it. No demand, no supply.


This has nothing to do about people's strength and self control. Every single society in the world has similar social problems. They can never be completely solved, by they can be eased at times by cooperation. Don't pretend like the US and its people are perfect and that it is everyone else whose mentality or behavior isn't up to the standard.


[edit on 1-3-2010 by maloy]


I'm not propping America at all. I'm not even American. You on the other hand are remarkably naive. You point your finger at me, offer no solution and still have no answer as to why America is doing what it is doing.

I guess maybe you're American, in which case, you probably don't get it because you live inside the bubble of information conflict where you have the firehose to teacup scenario happening everyday?

Russia is the enemy. Still! After all these years.



posted on Mar, 1 2010 @ 09:45 PM
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Originally posted by djusdjus
Russia is the enemy. Still! After all these years.


Whose enemy? Based on what? Personal prejudice? Obviously it will not be an ally of the US, and it has its own interests to uphold, but that does not make one an enemy.

It is convenient for many to make Russia out to be an enemy, for political reasons. When it comes to actual reasons as to why Russia is an "enemy", the arguement falls flat. You want Russia to be your personal boogeyman? Go right ahead - fight the righteous battles against the evil Russians in your imagination.

And I am not from the US.



You ask why America is doing what it is doing? I am not American, so I can only guess. Idealism or humanitarianism isn't the reason, at least not for the politicians. Nor is revenge. Ego? They are not idiots. Profits? Maybe, not in Afghanistan though. The structure of post-Cold War American military-industrial complex and the interest groups with a stake in it? Getting warmer.



And you want a solution? There is no easy solution, and it is the responsibility of the US to deal with the circumstances that it created. Gradually dropping support for the warlords who traffic heroin and pressuring Karzai to do the same would be a good start. It could mean more fighting and need for more troops in the short term, and could cause a temporary rift in Afghan politics, but it is the long-term solution that should be the goal. If the drug production continue to increase, it is guaranteed to create trouble at some point in the future.

And if the long-term is not a priority for the US, then it might just as well get out of Afghanistan now. Killing some Taliban in organized military ops every now and then won't solve much. If Americans don't realize it yet, Afghan problems will not be solved quickly or easily - not in a year, not in 5, not in 10. If you want to create a civilized society there and root out the Taliban, then dig in for the long-term and stop substituting problems with other problems.


This doesn't even need to have anything to do with Russia. To find the solution you need to ask the question - What is it that the US itself trying to achieve in Afghanistan? Will it achieve it with the current strategy, and will that achievement last after the US is gone from there?


[edit on 1-3-2010 by maloy]



posted on Mar, 2 2010 @ 04:24 PM
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yea this thread has nothing to do with legality or any type of law or legal issue

ats is seriously ridiculously hypocritical


message to the owners

you really need to figure out what your stance is and enforce that stance across the site


these double standards for alternative substance topics is completely out of hand

one thread is allowed, another isnt yet both threads involve the same rule


as great as ats is, im becoming more and more disappointed in how the faculty decides to enforce the "rules"



posted on Mar, 3 2010 @ 02:51 AM
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Its a big mess, basically the US is spending taxpayer money healping the CIA and others get rich while bankrupting the rest of the country. I doubt Russia cares to much abouth the popy fields its got problems of its own, and they certantly dont care for precious metals or oil that's underground there, it would be a waste of resorces and time to go to afganistan again. They have syberia after all the place is a tresure chest if they ever decide to mine it "theyll have to deal some things with China first". Infact I read somewere on the internet abouth a month ago, that China is buying up all the precious metals and rare earth magnets they can get, maibe they know something that the US doesen't know. or maibe they got more money and they are actually thinking of the future.



posted on Mar, 5 2010 @ 09:54 AM
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Russia, a country I'm sympathetic to in principle, currently has a tough row to hoe. They have always been concerned about maintaining their enormous border from both foreign invasion, ie Germany, and preventing their many immersed minorities from serious uprisings, ie Chechnya.

They do benefit from the many conflicts in the Middle East which help keep the price of oil up, selling military hardware and know how, ie Iran, and extending their influence on multiple fronts.

But despite the emergence of Russia since the collapse of the unwieldy overextended Soviet Union, the county has many problems that prevent it from flourishing. It is enormously cost ineffective to maintain such a vast area with so little infrastructure like roads and rail lines.

The population is dwindling, less that half that of the US, occupying nearly twice the area. Aside from oil production, there is relatively little of high demand being manufactured and exported.

The urban Eastern part of the country is relatively developed and progressive, but the vast central and eastern regions are unproductive and neglected.

Russia's ego was bruised terribly when the Soviet Union collapsed in the early 90s and the country fell into their worst economic slump in modern history. They felt the US had made promises of assistance that never materialized.

The 5 years oil price skyrocketing, 2004-8, emboldened the Russians into assuming their old role as counter balance and competitor with the US. The economic collapsing of the past year and a half has hit them actually harder than most.

Proud Russia carries on in the face of adversity not wanting to show indecisiveness or weakness. But unlike India or China who are working overtime to enter growing global economy, Russia still lags behind.



posted on Mar, 6 2010 @ 01:36 AM
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reply to post by mmiichael
 





It is enormously cost ineffective to maintain such a vast area with so little infrastructure like roads and rail lines. The population is dwindling, less that half that of the US, occupying nearly twice the area. Aside from oil production, there is relatively little of high demand being manufactured and exported.


You are right on, my friend, all Russia can hope for is higher oil, mineral and natural gas prices as that is about all Russia can offer to the world economy!

Russia will continue to be aggressive on all fronts, and try its best to bring back into Russia's dominance/ control the western and southern provinces.




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