Our world is dying

reply to post by mlmijyd

You'll find that my one quote was taken directly from one of your sources and if you think you can separate your mentality of 'a dying planet' from what you've been conditioned to think by politically driven science then you are naive?

Species come and go and we will be one of them whether you separate your glass jars from your food waste or reduce your carbon footprint and I'll wager that the humble bee will still out live us but not alas if man gets involved.

If there is any arrogance it is from people who purport these unproven ideas of a Dying Earth. Look at the time you/man has been here and tell me it isn't the blink of an eye in earth existence? Mother Nature is the biggest killer of planet resources and its species if we want to go that route but unlike you I have every confidence that she will put it all right again.

Well you have your opinion and i have mine... I see a problem, you don’t... I want to fight for my existence and the existence of my race, you don’t... I provide data to back up my claims, you don’t...


All i want is some evidence to back up your claim!!

Otherwise... i don’t see the point in continuing this dialog

*edit due to my initial response being a little bit harsh... apologies... passionate subject*




[edit on 25-2-2010 by Muckster]

Originally posted by Muckster
reply to post by mlmijyd

 

You'll find that my one quote was taken directly from one of your sources and if you think you can separate your mentality of 'a dying planet' from what you've been conditioned to think by politically driven science then you are naive?

Species come and go and we will be one of them whether you separate your glass jars from your food waste or reduce your carbon footprint and I'll wager that the humble bee will still out live us but not alas if man gets involved.

If there is any arrogance it is from people who purport these unproven ideas of a Dying Earth. Look at the time you/man has been here and tell me it isn't the blink of an eye in earth existence? Mother Nature is the biggest killer of planet resources and its species if we want to go that route but unlike you I have every confidence that she will put it all right again.

Well you have your opinion and i have mine... I see a problem, you don’t... I want to fight for my existence and the existence of my race, you don’t... I provide data to back up my claims, you don’t...

Fair enough... move along... nothing to see here...

Yes I'll move along as there is clearly nothing new here that isn't already mirrored in the IPCC GW propaganda that so many are sucked into. Your fight as you put it is just about your dissatisfied life in terms of being in the ranks, as I am, of those that are dissatisfied with how they are treated by government and economically challenged.

That's where my opinion stems from and I'd hazard a guess it's where yours originates?

One thing, from all your ‘research’ how much of it is independent from Government/agency funding? (I’ll help here; you can remove ALL from universities and anything reported by MSM)

reply to post by Alethea


The Bible passage was referring to Babylon!
Rev.18:21,
And a mighty angel took up a stone like a great
millstone,and cast it into the sea,saying,Thus with
violence shall that great city Babylon be thrown
down,and shall be found no more at all.

I wish you, God hating atheists, would stop picking
and choosing which scriptures you will exploit to
further your agenda.

Did we (man) create a little ozone problem with CFC's?

Does Acid rain kill wildlife?

How much mercury have we "put" in our fishies that we now eat?
Dupont did enough damage on their own in Waynsbuough VA for me.


Anyone who claims man can not cause problem on a planitary scale is highly dilusional and needs a little dose of reality. I will be glad to point out your lies, so go for it cause I will enjoy this.


BTW, just so you know I have lots of data. I have been in the environmental biz. all my life.
Started out at a little man made disaster called Times Beach en.wikipedia.org...

I now deal with industrial pollution control equipment (dust collectors), and sorbant injection into coal fired plant stacks to try to control some of the polution.

My latest hobby has been rubbing peoples noses in the "Man can not hurt the planet" mentality.

reply to post by mlmijyd

Yes I'll move along as there is clearly nothing new here that isn't already mirrored in the IPCC GW propaganda that so many are sucked into. Your fight as you put it is just about your dissatisfied life in terms of being in the ranks, as I am, of those that are dissatisfied with how they are treated by government and economically challenged.

That's where my opinion stems from and I'd hazard a guess it's where yours originates?

One thing, from all your ‘research’ how much of it is independent from Government/agency funding? (I’ll help here; you can remove ALL from universities and anything reported by MSM)

Ok first i will apologise to you in open forum... Sorry

I shouldn’t have said "move along"... it was rude response born from frustration and passion. I have edited my initial response to remove that comment!

I would actually like you to continue contributing to this thread... I have to learn to not dismiss something just because i don’t agree with it!

So... now that i have apologised... i will respond...


The reason i believe your opinion is wrong is because i honestly do not see what governments have to gain from pretending that the world is under threat... If anything... i believe that they are actually covering up the extent of the damage...

There is more profit to be made from exploiting resources than protecting them!

The research and data that i provided is not my only source... i have used my own eyes... I have seen my local bird population disappear... being a keen gardener, i have also noticed the insect population decline...

Now you may argue that this is only a local phenomena. But i also belong to garden forums, as well as ATS, and its something that quite a few people are starting to notice.

I have also travelled a bit... When i was in Malta, a few years back, i noticed that the sea was full of jelly fish... everywhere... i was speaking to a local boat captain and he explained that the Mediterranean turtle has been hunted to near extinction... due to it being the only natural enemy of the jellyfish we now have a massive explosion in jellyfish population.

When in the Caribbean, about 5 years ago, i was taken out on a boat and shown vast areas of the ocean that was dead... mile after mile of dead coral... This was due to bad fishing practises and tourism.

So... as you can see... this is something that i have witnessed with my own eyes... not just read about. And because of this, i know that humans can affect the planet... we do have the ability to make negative changes... the planet is vast, but finite!

Thanks... and i hope you except my apology

reply to post by SLaPPiE


You sound scary

Just for balance on your Times Beach story, I was interested to know just what had become of this barren 400+ acre town (built on a flood plain - Doh!) Also, turns out that evacuation wasn't may be even necessary but I suspect that its inhabitants were glad to see the back of the floods they experienced? Being built on a natural flood plain.

Times Beach Today

Whilst man in his search for power and even just living on this planet, changes it and not always for the good. He will not kill it as the OP states even if he uses some of those nuclear weapons. He might get rid of himself but then the earth will continue in its changing ways after us meddlers have gone.

Originally posted by Muckster
reply to post by mlmijyd

 

Yes I'll move along as there is clearly nothing new here that isn't already mirrored in the IPCC GW propaganda that so many are sucked into. Your fight as you put it is just about your dissatisfied life in terms of being in the ranks, as I am, of those that are dissatisfied with how they are treated by government and economically challenged.

That's where my opinion stems from and I'd hazard a guess it's where yours originates?

One thing, from all your ‘research’ how much of it is independent from Government/agency funding? (I’ll help here; you can remove ALL from universities and anything reported by MSM)

Ok first i will apologise to you in open forum... Sorry

I shouldn’t have said "move along"... it was rude response born from frustration and passion. I have edited my initial response to remove that comment!

I would actually like you to continue contributing to this thread... I have to learn to not dismiss something just because i don’t agree with it!

So... now that i have apologised... i will respond...


The reason i believe your opinion is wrong is because i honestly do not see what governments have to gain from pretending that the world is under threat... If anything... i believe that they are actually covering up the extent of the damage...

There is more profit to be made from exploiting resources than protecting them!

The research and data that i provided is not my only source... i have used my own eyes... I have seen my local bird population disappear... being a keen gardener, i have also noticed the insect population decline...

Now you may argue that this is only a local phenomena. But i also belong to garden forums, as well as ATS, and its something that quite a few people are starting to notice.

I have also travelled a bit... When i was in Malta, a few years back, i noticed that the sea was full of jelly fish... everywhere... i was speaking to a local boat captain and he explained that the Mediterranean turtle has been hunted to near extinction... due to it being the only natural enemy of the jellyfish we now have a massive explosion in jellyfish population.

When in the Caribbean, about 5 years ago, i was taken out on a boat and shown vast areas of the ocean that was dead... mile after mile of dead coral... This was due to bad fishing practises and tourism.

So... as you can see... this is something that i have witnessed with my own eyes... not just read about. And because of this, i know that humans can affect the planet... we do have the ability to make negative changes... the planet is vast, but finite!

Thanks... and i hope you except my apology

I'll probably get slapped for such a large quote but hey I can live with it. I wanted to put it all in to show what a decent chap (assuming male?) you are and I would like to extend the olive branch and say that I apologise for my tone also. It too is as a result of frustration at how we are treated in this life.

I don't deny for a second that we humans don't treat this earth in a less than respectful way but I still think that the change needed is not from people being as responsible as possible (I think most are and its more the minority that isn't).

But, if responsibility also means that we don't drive, fly because we don't want to support big oil corporations and all of the 10,000's of other businesses then that isn't going to happen. Unless, I/we have a real alternative to that travel that is not as harmful?
I know enough about how our money is literally an illusion to know that we shouldn’t be working as hard for companies that just deal in this illusion i.e. Banks and financial institutions. These alternatives to oil as an example would suddenly become a very real viable alternative if we see that the only thing that has value on this planet in economic terms is our labor. At this point money is meaningless as it almost is unless its seen as a controlling tool. We wouldn't need to get from A-B as quickly or as often, because our debt would not exist and we wouldn't need to chase jobs to pay for mortgages etc. I don't go along with the idea (I know where it comes from) that we need money to give incentive for people to work and be productive and feel their value in society. This is just more Global Elite Corp propaganda that enslaves us to keep on the hamster wheel of existence, that we all go along with everyday. For what? Personally, its to eat and live in a house that isn’t paid for (but it never was because the only real money that went into it was mine, the banks merely typed a figure on their computer screen created a debt sheet for me and backed none of their fiat money with any valued commodity save my labour).

So we are all locked into working and living not as we wish but how we need to and the only way to not is to remove yourself/family from this lifestyle (sure you can play at it with growing your food and recycling) and you’ve seen how that works out for some?

So my frustration vented and off-topic (Sort of) but I still believe that mother nature can pollute (again this is a human term and may be needs to be defined?) when a volcano erupts or earthquakes happen or flooding or when the next polar shift occurs etc the scale of destruction is enormous and arguably far more than even an oil refinery or oil spillage at sea. However, I still think that the earth will recover but not in the timescale that we humans want?

Hope this state’s my differing opinion more courteously as no hard feeling are felt.

Originally posted by Alethea
This planet is exhausted. It will never be restored.

No way Jose. Gaia will be just fine once she has rid herself of the fleas on her back.

[edit on 25/2/2010 by PuterMan]

reply to post by Muckster



You've obviously gone to a lot research and effort to post your postion. Nicely done.

My position on it is that yea, you are likely correct. But ....

From a position of interstellar time.....its barely a hiccup. Earth will recover, with or without us. With all that is observable and even not seen, it sure looks like it will recover without us.


PG

Of course our world is dieing. Just as we all are. Everything has a life expectancy and from the moment of birth, be it a human being or a planet, everything starts the process of dieing. From infancy to adolescence to adulthood to elderly to death to recycling of matter to rebirth.....

My opinion is that this planet will never die by our hands. Of course we are damaging it , however once it gets too damaged it will just shake a couple of times , destroy most of the things which hurt it's existence and then move on. Let the little microogramisms do their job all over again.

On a side note , our planet actually dying due to the fact that in 5 million years our sun will run out of certain gases and its size will grow so much it would engulf Earth and Mars probably. So this planet will die sooner or later with or without us doing anything.

reply to post by mlmijyd


Definitely no hard feelings, and i can now see where you are coming from

Oh... yeah i’m a bloke!!


While i don’t believe that natural events do put out as much "pollution" as manmade events i do see your point regarding governments and corporate world!

We are, after all, slaves... I think they realised, a long time ago, that people with chain's around their necks will rebel... so they got rid of chains and replaced them with tie's and sold them to us as fashion accessories How clever is that??? They even make profit from the very chains that bind us

The reason why i don’t follow the belief that natural event cause more damage than manmade ones is for the following reasons (and please remember that i am not talking about CO2 or any other climate change argument)

When there is a natural disaster is normally involves chemicals and substances being released that are already in abundance and will only do short term damage... The more harmful chemicals/pollutants are either produced in much smaller quantities so that the planet can deal with it.

However, once you start to add to this with the billions of tons of human waste... it starts to cause problems.

The chemical and pollutants that we release are often rarer ones that are more securely locked up in the planet... we have to mine or drill for them... then we mix them together in unnatural conditions to come up with new substances... it is these that have the most worrying implications in my opinion!

With the chemicals that we are now releasing, from plastics and manufacturing, we are seeing an impact on the food chain... We have floating islands of plastic in the Pacific and Atlantic oceans... these plastic debris are breaking down into smaller and smaller chunks and are releasing chemicals and making their way into the food chain.

www.abovetopsecret.com...

I guess i worry, primarily, because i have kids... its like a defence reaction... i have to save the world to save them

But all these things that are getting into our food, as result of mismanagement and greed, really anger me. And it saddens me to see other life forms hurt by this.

There are solutions... but no one wants to let go of their current lifestyle... and companies don’t want to lose profit.

I understand that the planet will probably recover from whatever we do... but not in the timescale that i would like to see... not in time for our children!



Although we started off on the wrong foot... i have come to appreciate your comments and viewpoint... I really do appreciate you accepting my apology and have added you to my friends list... I like people who can argue a case and stand up to me

Cheers

There is a lot of solutions offered by the scientific community to fix things. I think none are better than the research done by mycologist Paul Stamets.

Video Link

In fact, I hope that his research is put into practice soon.

[edit on 25-2-2010 by DaMod]

Gaia is far more intelligent that you presume. There are forces unkown to mankind today, but She had survived far longer than the history of mankind, with the ability to heal Herself than you can ever know.

Gaia will die when the sun, the sustenance of her life burns out. But in the meantime, She knows what are her ailments and uses the element unknown to men to recuperate.

Her pains are far more inflicted by nature than by men, whom are mere specks in the overall scheme of universal life.

There are parts of her that is unstable for humanity, but not for her. Thus for mankind to flourish, they must understand such instablities and take action so that all may live upon Gaia, a living being just as you and I are living breathing beings too.

of course the world is dying, as are you, and everything else, we are all "dying" from the moment we are born, but the Earth has about 5 billion to go, so im not worried much

reply to post by Cabaret Voltaire


That's the dumbest thing I've heard. Indeed conservatives can't articulate properly.

reply to post by DaMod


Checked out the video... fascinating stuff... I’m reading up more on it.

Apart from being tasty, it seems that the humble mushroom has many properties that i wasn’t aware of...

reply to post by Muckster


I especially enjoyed the oil pile experiment. Fascinating stuff to say the least. We could use that on say... landfills!

I guess we can now add the Gulf of Mexico oil leak and a possible return to whaling to my list of things effecting life on Earth!

news.bbc.co.uk...


Snakes are another one as ddarkangle2bad pointed out in this recent thread...

www.abovetopsecret.com...

I am not sure if i should let this thread die or if it’s worth keeping alive by updating each time i hear of a new species added to the endangered list

Hi Muckster

The BBC was late. I posted that in breaking news almost 2 weeks ago.
But that is not the reason for my post.

We should combine our info and efforts. What do you say ?

I'll start with.Linking to this thread.
A thread I did on topic. It is called : The Shocking Reality of Modern Day Extinction.

You will find in there that since the last survey in the year 2006 the first Cetacean ever got labeled extinct.
The pink Fresh water Dolphin from the Yangzte river

I wanted to add every new related news to it.
This thread looks to me to do just that to.

Good work S&F

[edit on 6/21/2010 by Sinter Klaas]

[edit on 6/21/2010 by Sinter Klaas]