The cold truth about alien abductions and the new age.

Lately I have been seeing a lot of people posting claims that aliens are here to enlighten us, that there is good and bad aliens or God was an alien and we need aliens to help us fight off the NWO or the NWO wants aliens to look bad when they're not, or that they are coming while we raise vibration frequency to the 5th dimension for 2012, that religion was created to control humans by malevolent aliens and the 'good guys' want to fix it, that all abductions are caused by psyop agents in black helicopters who don't want us to join a 'galatic federation' and that many 'terran humans' are reincarnated alien souls here to assist mankind on earth and that there is no real God who is the creator and moral authority in the universe but only a 'evolved universal mind' or consciousness made up by the universe which is a living diety and that we all make up the Godhead! or that our 'higher self outside the matrix is God' or that greys are us from the future blahblah etc etc etc. I think many of you get the point and know or have seen the various claims. But what these new agers and other naive people don't point out
is what abductees and contacees themselves have to say about these entities and how it has affected their life and health for the worst, both physically and mentally.

I will list a few cases of what various abductees and contactees have claimed, which has the same tones as the vast majority of what is described by most reported abductees.

On August 13, 1975, Air Force Sergeant Charles L. Moody was in the desert of Alamogordo, New Mexico, observing a meteor shower. It was 1:15 AM when he saw a glowing, metallic, saucer-shaped object lowering to the ground approximately 300 feet away. Moody estimated the object's length at about 50 feet, and its diameter at eighteen to twenty feet. The UFO began to wobble as it descended. Moody was extremely frightened as the object began to move towards him. Moody tried to run from the object, but when he tried to start this car, the engine would not respond. He could now hear a high-pitched sound as the object came to a stop in mid-air about 70 feet away from him. He could make out a window in the UFO, and see shadows of a human-like form. The high-pitched sound came to a stop, and as it did, he could feel his body going numb. His last conscious memory would be of the UFO rising back up into the sky, and finally flying away. Moody's description of the windows and humanoid forms are very similar to Barney's description in the classic Betty and Barney Hill abduction. (Which I am sure most of us here have read about.)

As the UFO left, Moody was now able to start his car. Still trembling with fear, he sped away from the desert, finally arriving home. As he entered his house, he was shocked to see that it was now 3:00 AM. Somehow, he was missing about one and one-half hours. The next day, he began to have physical problems, starting with severe pain in his lower back. A rash would break out all over his body in the next few days. Taking his problems to a physician, he was told to try a type of self-hypnosis to recover the lost one and one-half hours. It seems that the self-hypnosis was working. Within a couple of weeks, Moody began to recall bits and pieces of his desert encounter, and felt that he had a fairly good account of what had happened to him.

He now believed that after his body became numb, he had seen two beings coming towards him. The creatures were about six feet tall, and wearing skin-tight black clothing. He had tried to fight them off, but was overcome with the numbness and went unconscious. He remembered waking inside of a craft on a table. He could not move his arms or legs. An alien creature stood by him. This alien was much shorter than his two abductors. He also wore a silvery suit, instead of black. He had no hair on his head, like the other two creatures. His brow protruded outward, and he had round eyes, small ears and nose, and his lips were extremely thin. This "leader" as Moody saw him, began to communicate telepathically. Moody was asked if he would stop fighting his abduction, and cooperate. With Moody's compliance, the alien used a rod-like device on his back which stopped the paralysis. Soon, Moody was transported to a different part of the UFO, where he was shown the alien drive unit. This drive had a long rod, and three holes in it which were covered by glass. There was a crystal-like object with a rod on both ends. During his short tour of the alien ship, Moody was told that there was a larger mother-ship which was waiting above the Earth. The alien leader also told him that no future contact with earthlings would be made for twenty years. Also, Moody's memory would be lost to him for several weeks after he was released. The alien then rendered him unconscious once again.

So what can be learned about this seemingly 'friendly' abduction (friendly when compared to other abduction cases). They make this man immobile, take him into their ship, pressure him to 'cooperate' and then erase his memories, and drop him back down, and he seemed to suffer from back pain from the 'experience'. Even us humans as a 'primitive galatic species' as new agers like to say, have laws and can tell right from wrong. For we as a species know it is wrong to kidnap, intimidate, and inflict stress on other people, regardless if it may have a 'purpose'. And undoubtedly the 'purpose' suits what these monsters want, it has nothing to do with mankinds interests, or interests in the environment on our planet.

[edit on 13-1-2010 by Moonman1111]

On January 6, 1976 in Stanford, Kentucky, three old friends-Mona Stafford, Louise Smith, and Elaine Thomas celebrated Mona's birthday at a restaurant in Lancaster. Driving home in Louise's Chevrolet on Highway 78, the three women see a bright, red object in the night sky. As the women watched the object, it began to move closer to their Chevy. Smith had lost control of her car. The little Chevy was going 85 mph, much faster than she had ever driven before. Frightened, she cries out, "I can't hold the car on the road." Stafford, sitting in the front passenger seat, grabs the wheel to help, thinking that something is wrong with the steering wheel. She has no luck. The car continued to speed down the highway at 85 mph. The object, now more clearly seen, was a large, metallic, disc-shaped UFO with a dome atop. A ring of red lights surrounded its midsection. All three women would later describe a yellow, blinking light on the object's underside. The UFO paced the car, positioned over the driver's side for a time, and then moved down the highway. As it left, a beam of blue-white light immersed the car's interior. Suddenly, the little Chevy was being backed up into a pasture just off the highway, through an entry way with two stone walls on either side. They then were back on the road, and everything was as it was before. An hour and twenty minutes had elapsed, unbeknownst to the women at the time.

Needless to say, the three women were frightened to death. They also were suffering from burns on areas of exposed skin. As they finally arrived home, they could not decide what to do next. They called the police station, and retired for the evening. The next day, they called the Navy recruiting office. The Navy released some details of the case to the Lexington television station. After the station broadcast a synopsis of the encounter on the air, the story broke to the major new media. When word of what had occurred to the three women reached MUFON, investigator Jerry Black requested an interview with them. The three women at first were against the interview. Gun shy because of the press releases, and television news of the event, they wanted it to just go away, not perpetuate it. But Black finally convinced them of his compassion for their recent encounter, and his experience in dealing with similar cases. He also offered the presence of a woman, Peggy Schnell to be present at the interview. Finally, the three agreed to the interview. They began with some details of the sighting of the UFO, and its appearance.

It was obvious to Black that the three women were suffering ill effects from their encounter. It was very painful for them to relive the events of that frightful night on the road. Though suffering, the women hoped that revealing their details might elevate some of their anxieties. Mrs. Thomas said, "We live in fear of what we don't know. I'm worried about Lou and Mona. I think they're ready for a breakdown." Eventually, several other investigators and researchers would join the search for what really happened to the three women. Regressive hypnosis was a viable option. The regressive hypnosis sessions revealed what the investigators feared-the three women had been abducted. They were taken aboard the unknown craft, and subjected to medical experimentation. These procedures included very personal, sometimes crude tests. The women thought they were tortuous. Though the women were not sexually violated, they were placed in embarrassing, humiliating positions.

embarrassing, humiliating positions, and burns you say? I hope these three deserving spiritual retards atleast got a kundalini experience from this so they could evolve to a higher frequency in the universal mind!
Or maybe the 'benevolent' aliens can't help us because of the 'galatic law of non-interference'... Mmmhmmm, or maybe 'benevolent' aliens don't exist? And if they do they will not be coming here manipulating or bribing mankind but would remain on their OWN planets and do their own thing.

And reptoids and greys aren't the only ones violating human rights, there is the widespread belief that 'well humanoid Nordic aliens are the good guys, they fight the bad aliens, just like Pleiadians!'.. This is disinformation and unfounded nonsense. Listen to this episode of coast to coast, www.coasttocoastam.com... or listen to it on Youtube at www.youtube.com... 'The case of Rosie, a contactee from Sao Paolo, Brazil said she's had several implants (including one the size of a Lifesaver in her brain). Her contacts with the Nordic aliens (whom she described as tall blonde humanoids with cat-like eyes) informed her that the implants were used like cameras.

Hmm, tall Nordic entities with vertical pupils? These are also the same type of aliens abductees have reported seeing flaunting serpent and dragon symbols on their uniforms/outfits. Also many of the earlier Nordic abductees went on to form new age cults, such as George Adamski, Truman Bethurum, Daniel Fry, George King and Wayne Aho. There is so much more evidence and testimony that can be put out there that UFO's and their occupants are up to no good and have NO RIGHT to be coming here. But there are still others out there who don't care who is flying these craft, but are just more interested in seeing a UFO and making contact with them, which I can't stress enough is a bad idea. Regardless of your religious views, even if you're an atheist you still should be aware of the intentions and activity of these monsters.

[edit on 13-1-2010 by Moonman1111]

Experimentation, intimidation, hybrid creation, chip implantations, physical and mental abuse and humiliation, animal and human mutiliation, and deceivement is all a part the alien agenda, where are these 'good ones' everybody is talking about or expecting? Because its easier to believe good aliens will help us before God the creator will, right? But many researchers today are promoting a 'space brother' attitude, one such paid clown is Dr. Richard Boylan who will use the approach of its all done by the 'Global Industrialist and Militarist', 'humans are the enemy of our progress not the aliens!!'By constantly blaming "the military" and the "globalist industrialist" the clowns condition the abductees and semi awake public into believing that ALL human institutions are bad and that the only hope one has to reach the next level of consciousness, evolution, vibratory frequency" is to look to the skies towards the same dark gods/aliens who are responsible for much of the evil on our planet today. It's a good cop, bad cop game, where they're all out to fawk us for their own purposes. The new age will also do the opposite and press the egos and claim all us humans are in fact God, and if we put our consciousness together that we can create God and our reality! Reminds me of Genesis when the serpent told Adam and Eve they could be like 'Gods'.

[edit on 13-1-2010 by SLAYER69]

reply to post by SLAYER69


Yeah sorry about the grammar, I'm cleaning it up some now.

That's so hard to read, .... PARAGRAPH'S man, for the love of god. how old are ya kid .... 11, 12 ??

Im kidding moon man, however I disagree that these, or all aliens are " monsters" as you put them.

they are doing exactly what we are doing to animals here, ... we capture them, observe them, .. tag and track them. Their simply trying to learn about us.

As far as human mutilations go, .... some specie's of alien's are probably so advanced that they think of us as a lesser specie's, ... so they don't see any harm in cutting a few of us up for the greater good of knowledge, ...... this idea is very fightening indeed. However we do the same here, testing things on and killing chimps and other lab animals. ... does that make US monster's ??

i suppose everythings a matter of perspective.

Originally posted by Moonman1111
Reminds me of Genesis when the serpent told Adam and Eve they could be like 'Gods'.

I believe the most correct translation is "You will be like god; knowing good from evil". And really God should have mentioned the tree to both of them at the same time instead of just Adam and then making Eve. Guy's are terrible at remembering important things.

You know thievery is a sin. I'll cite where you got your articles and you go repent or something to make up for stealing intellectual property.

Billy Booth wrote the Sergeant Moody story and also the Kentucky one too. Seems like Billy pumps out quite a lot of stories.

Whilst I'm not doubting Billy's dedication to the truth, having other authors as alternative sources might colour your story a little differently moonman1111.

So. I'll repeat a question that I asked of you before; Did God create all these alien demons? Does he love them? Why did he create them?

I look forward to your answer.

-m0r

Originally posted by IntastellaBurst


That's so hard to read, .... PARAGRAPH'S man, for the love of god. how old are ya kid .... 11, 12 ??

Im kidding moon man, however I disagree that these, or all aliens are " monsters" as you put them.

they are doing exactly what we are doing to animals here, ... we capture them, observe them, .. tag and track them. Their simply trying to learn about us.

As far as human mutilations go, .... some specie's of alien's are probably so advanced that they think of us as a lesser specie's, ... so they don't see any harm in cutting a few of us up for the greater good of knowledge, ...... this idea is very fightening indeed. However we do the same here, testing things on and killing chimps and other lab animals. ... does that make US monster's ??

i suppose everythings a matter of perspective.

What they are doing to mankind has no purpose. They are not trying to learn from us, they seek to destroy us, and control us. Regardless of their reasons. We have a right to terminate any craft they send to our planet/dimension and to spread the message to people that these entities are of no good. To have an attitude of 'oh we do it to animals so they can do it to, just don't pay attention to them they aren't evil just curious' is deserving of outrage in and of itself and makes light of what abudctees have to go through. But on a side note, I personally disagree with medical experimentation on animals as it is wrong.

Originally posted by m0r1arty

Originally posted by Moonman1111
Reminds me of Genesis when the serpent told Adam and Eve they could be like 'Gods'.

I believe the most correct translation is "You will be like god; knowing good from evil". And really God should have mentioned the tree to both of them at the same time instead of just Adam and then making Eve. Guy's are terrible at remembering important things.

You know thievery is a sin. I'll cite where you got your articles and you go repent or something to make up for stealing intellectual property.

Billy Booth wrote the Sergeant Moody story and also the Kentucky one too. Seems like Billy pumps out quite a lot of stories.

Whilst I'm not doubting Billy's dedication to the truth, having other authors as alternative sources might colour your story a little differently moonman1111.

So. I'll repeat a question that I asked of you before; Did God create all these alien demons? Does he love them? Why did he create them?

I look forward to your answer.

-m0r

There isn't always a good translation when it comes to scriptures being put into English. But what is your view on the matter? Do you feel were all God's and Goddesses or something? Also, openly published accounts from abduction victims isn't theft. I was just stating the stage with a few examples. Doesn't matter if you read about the persons account in a book, wiki, Google, or watch a video of their testimony or listen to their audio, the truth is the truth regardless. And that is the point. And yes, God created everything seen and unseen. We can only speculate on God's plan, and I don't think he loves them because I don't think demonic minded reptilians or greys and what not walk around in heaven, maybe at one time they did before they turned evil. But i'm pretty sure they go to the basement though But on that matter who knows, all we know is that these entities are coming to our planet to do evil and people need to know this.

It is racist to assume that because one group of a race acts a certain way they all do, simple fact. Do all humans comply to the NWO's modus operandi? Did mother Teresea, Ghandi, etc...? No, there are obvious variations within any given species of high civlization. Now I have asked several spiritual practioners about the Greys, and what they all say is that about 85% of them are here to help and accelerate evolution, but that a small but very active minority are, well, not. (Arent the evil minorities always the most coniving and proactive?) They are either under the service of the Reptiods or trying to use us as soldiers to fight their war with ... I cant remember the race.. but one of their leaders or creators or something. Eitherway, this is well documented. I am posting this here and now so my next post under this thread will be more readily accepable as truth. For if they are not in some capacity here to help, the book my theory rests on is misinformation, which incidently would not disprove my conclusion. Anyway, see below.

(Someone Please repost this as a new thread, as I am a new user and cannot, lest an admin slides me the 5th golden ticket.

Why Pandorum May Be A Real Planet

Now, let me preface this by saying the following...

I heard somewhere that James Cameron had dreamt of Pandorum for years, but after searching around some (although not extensively) I could not find an internet quote of this, so if any of you can, please let me know at [email protected] as it would greatly fit into my theory. As many of you know, dreams themselves often occur on an astral plane, a place where many advanced spiritual thinkers of our civilization concur that we actually travel to in dream state.

Now, I have been reading Lisette Larkins book "Talking to Extraterrestrials", I know but stick with me. Any open and receptive consciousness that spends even 10 minutes with this book would feel something resonate in their heart and mind akin to truth. These dialogues most certainly seem beyond the scope of the normal human parlance, and she is a VERY respected author in the UFO community. I have also had certain experiences that would verify her accuracy, but this isn’t about me, I'm no one. So, heres the juice. On page 67 in the chapter entitled Count the Stars, Count the Ships the following text occurs.

"As you see signs of prejudice in your children, talk to them. Remind them that there are others who are different on this planet, that it is important to get beyond that type of thinking so that they might get ready to embrace other children who are off your planet and who may be blue with green stripes and who may have a tail, and who may have mastered telekinesis. Help them explode open their imaginations. Do this with your children and you will prepare them to know us. Surely you can imagine how beneficial this would be." pg. 67

Now, admittedly, this is not the most convincing selection of the text I could post to convince of the ET presence behind her channelings, or communications, I don’t think she likes the channel word. These are a certain colonies of Greys she says she is contacting here. This book was published in 2002.

Now, should we accept the veracity of her alleged sources, then we must also accept that it is most likely that these beings would choose an example of other life forms such as the above description from the infinite realities existing and manifest throughout this dynamic and ever-evolving universe, a cosmos of hyper-diversity, coral reefs of constellations. Shouldn’t we? What need would they have for hyperbole or conjecture when there are probably thousands of real examples to choose from? And if you know anything about the Greys, you would know that this is the exact tongue in cheek behavior they demonstrate, all in good humor, most of the time . So there's my schpeel.

I assure you that (and many Barnes and Noble and Borders carry her books) if you spend just 10 minutes with this book, those of you familiar with the litany of obvious UFO evidence out there will become convinced that there is a serious likelihood of this being truly of ET source. Amazon.com Larkins and see the reviews, she is respected. For those of you uninitiated unto the obviousness of the Grey’s presence. Please take a moment and watch this video.
www.youtube.com... UFO Lands on Playground: 62 Witnesses, All Children
my name is Austin Proffitt, I’m 23, my e-mail is [email protected] If you go through the avenues of information I have presented here on your own, and find what I am saying to be immanently plausible, then let us spread this post far and wide. Although, it may be best to keep it from those who CNN reported were experiencing depression and suicidal thoughts at not being able to be Pandorian. Or maybe this is the cure? www.cnn.com...

reply to post by Split404


They all look the same, behave the same, follow the same 'plan' that they seem to have. Regardless of which species it is. Do not hold hope that some of them are good, because I have yet to read about a benevolent alien who didn't abduct somebody but instead met them and said 'we serve God'. Nothing inside a UFO ever will, sorry to break it to you. 85 percent of them are good huh? They're here for their own reasons, not here to help or speed up evolution, come on man, don't be that gullible.

I challenge you to expose youself to the messages in "Talking to Extraterrestrials". The efficacy of their spiritual messages is on par, above it really, with any of the Earth masters. It really is staggering. As I admitted, maybe its misinformation, but I think the truth of the matter will be obvious to anyone willing to do the work. As I said before, It is racist to assume bc a small group or portion of a race is doing one thing, they all are. You seem to waste no time even addressing my arguements, so I am uncertain as to where the gullability lies here.

reply to post by Split404


Wow, so that author 'channels' or 'communicates' with greys who want her to love the hybrid abominations that are coming to our planet every year? These 'walk ins' are going to be liquidated pal weither the greys like it or not. This planet isn't going to be colonized. They think they can abduct our men and women and create test tube babies to come and rule us or live among us? I don't think our creator is going to allow that either

Also, I have a book for you to check out, it's called Masquerade of Angels

And they most certainly do not all "look the same". There are as many diverse reports unto their countenance and size as one could imagine. From tall and dark grey, to 4 feet and almost white, to possible human hybridization, and the list goes on and on. There is anything but a continuity of appearance in regard to the greys, or really any ET for that matter. And thats just how it is friend.

Learn how to use period's, correct punctuation, and type out thoughts in a fashion that is readable. Then we can talk about the true purpose of alien abductions. Including links to back-up your sources and spark debate is also a good idea.

Good Aliens? Bad Aliens? let's worry about proving aliens exist before we worry too much over intentions!

And I mean for my upper post to read Pandora, not Pandorum. Sorry, hollywood interference. But obviously my post is about the movie Avatar. Will someone please make the appropriate Edits, just to that part!, and repost it? I'm sorry to use space for something slightly out of context, but I think it kind of important and I cannot make new posts... And myopic knee-jerk proclamations over-emphasizing the actions of a specific portion of a race, the greys, unto the entirety of their species is well, not... important that is. Well I shouldnt say that, its made for good debate, so excuse my insensitivity. But posting an example of a bad experience and then making grand sweeping generalizations totally deviod of philosophical and logical rigor are, well.. you know. But please, I have posted my Why Pandora May Be A Real Planet on a couple threads but with the Pandorum mispelling, so if someone could change it to Pandora and repost it in its entirety I would be most greatful. As I am a new memeber and cannot start new threads.

reply to post by Moonman1111

Originally posted by Moonman1111What they are doing to mankind has no purpose. They are not trying to learn from us, they seek to destroy us, and control us.

“Aliens come from a little star to the left of the moon and straight on till morning. They like to eat green cheese and when night time comes they dance around the Bobo tree and drink purple lemonade. “

See the above is all wild and unfounded speculation just as you are basing your hate on pure wild and unfounded speculation but yours is different because you advocate death – as if there is noit enough of that on this earth already. You try to inform us that aliens are not trying to learn from us and that they seek to destroy us but you do not know this as fact and to burn it before learning about it is a way of thinking that should have been left in the past with the witch burnings.

My friend with respect you are as much in the dark about the extraterrestrial agenda as we all, some more in the dark than others. I am of the opinion that you should probably be more concerned with who really runs the show in government and what the intentions and motivations of your own government are in regard to the extraterrestrial phenomenon before you should be concerned with the intentions and motivations of a visiting extraterrestrial race who probably could but have not turned us to ash thus far.

You do not have the answers and the answers you seek will not come out into the light until you put away your righteous sword and shield and accept that you are pandering to fear and primitive ignorance.
So, without diving into wild speculation (or scripture) how do you know aliens are here to destroy us? As I see it if they were here to destroy us then I would surmise that right now we should already be smoking lumps of charcoal or in the roads, stripped of vital organs.

It would be arrogance indeed to think that because one is well acquainted with the words of a holy book that extraterrestrials could be stopped from burning a city to ash in an instant if they so wished. It would also be great arrogance to think that because you are one with your god that you have the answers or that your interpretations of the UFO phenomenon are correct amidst a plethora of countless others.

At least the majority of the countless others do not talk of visiting death upon a visitor.

I am convinced that they do not wish to destroy us, at worst some may wish to exploit us but I do not believe they all follow this agenda. Having seen two UFO’s in the sky above me in 2008 (8th may) I had some sort of connection I am not able to describe with adequacy but I know it was not negative and if anything the event left me with a great sense of inner peace and hope. A period of meditation bore fruit and a request for a sighting was answered in no uncertain terms.

I have not been the same since that day as my wife and daughters can testify. My own mind playing tricks or them showing me what is in their heart and mind - or was I fooled by demons?

Originally posted by Moonman1111
Regardless of their reasons.

What if their reasons are peaceful and you are wrong? Still "Deus lo volt?"

Originally posted by Moonman1111
We have a right to terminate any craft they send to our planet/dimension and to spread the message to people that these entities are of no good.

Do we not have enough MANMADE death and destruction under the guise of ignorance and misunderstandings here on earth created by human people now you superciliously assume that we have some right to start to wage a new war on a new front without even taking a little time to ask an extraterrestrial his/her name. Perhaps you and I might not be best served by burning extraterrestrials and extraterrestrial lovers at the stake while shouting “DEUS LO VOLT.”

Originally posted by Moonman1111
To have an attitude of 'oh we do it to animals so they can do it to, just don't pay attention to them they aren't evil just curious' is deserving of outrage in and of itself and makes light of what abudctees have to go through.

Why deserving of outrage? Is it outrage to want to learn more about extraterrestrials or is it an outrage to want to destroy them on sight because you apparently seem to have your head so firmly wedged inside a religious book that you have lost all sense of reason and objectivity?
You give the impression that the more a person dives into religion the more that person becomes violently militant and intolerant of the differences of another. It is a miserable thing to see and what an absurdity that you the god fearing believer would like to destroy the alien whereas I the atheist would like to welcome them into my life and learn about them while extending a hand in friendship.

You risk much by diving into war yet you may grow as a person if only you would put aside your hatred and your ignorance. How can you condone violence and death to another species and still quote scripture – because you think an alien is a demon? That would say more about the dangers of religion and an unbending adherence to the words of an ancient book rather than to think for you, the real human proclivity which allows us to learn and move on.

More noble a stance than demands of death and destruction to people you know “nothing” about?

Originally posted by Moonman1111
But on a side note, I personally disagree with medical experimentation on animals as it is wrong.

You seem to be a walking contradiction, is this the way of life for a religious person? You would kill an alien on sight, a person who has seen and been to places that would probably have you falling to your knees in stunned wonder. You would frown and gnash your teeth at a rat being experimented on while warming your hands on the extraterrestrial pyres?

It would be interesting (and depressing) to see where you stand on the work of a rat catcher and those who euthanize dogs and cats because we live in a throwaway society.





[edit on 13-1-2010 by SmokeJaguar67]

For the record I am against animal experimentation too but I am also against advocating death to extraterrestrials and anything else I know nothing about except what I have read because my outlook is based purely on the idea that I have interpreted them to be demons because I have become one with a holy book.

I may have come across as a little harsh but only because I am trying with varying levels of success to respect your views as distasteful as they are. Like your last thread this thread seems to be based upon the same fears the less learned in the middle ages had when it came to black cats and familiars.

“Neca eos omnes. Deus suos agnoset”


[edit on 13-1-2010 by SmokeJaguar67]