Truth.

Would it be so bad that the government provided free food, water, rent for everyone?? i mean how do THEY make more money circulating in the population? where does it come from? nothing. What if the country went to war?? would they build an army with a certain amount of budget and lose the war because they "ran out of money"?

Providing these bare needs at LEAST will solve alot of problems in the world.

I know what u guys might think, that its bad, it makes people lazy and makes them not want to work blah blah blah.

But is that REALLY how it is? i mean if you had ur food and water and place to live for free, wouldn't u want more out of life? Becoming a scientist? a brilliant engineer? an artistic person??

Would you have it like that? or working 9-5 in a mind-numbing job that gets u no where and all it does is pay for your needs and forces you to stay there.

Originally posted by Sly_U
Would it be so bad that the government provided free food, water, rent for everyone?? i mean how do THEY make more money circulating in the population? where does it come from? nothing. What if the country went to war?? would they build an army with a certain amount of budget and lose the war because they "ran out of money"?

Providing these bare needs at LEAST will solve alot of problems in the world.

I know what u guys might think, that its bad, it makes people lazy and makes them not want to work blah blah blah.

But is that REALLY how it is? i mean if you had ur food and water and place to live for free, wouldn't u want more out of life? Becoming a scientist? a brilliant engineer? an artistic person??

Would you have it like that? or working 9-5 in a mind-numbing job that gets u no where and all it does is pay for your needs and forces you to stay there.

In your prior post, money is not the biggest con...credit is.

As for this post, has it made matters better or worse for those that are right now totally dependent (welfare) on the government?

reply to post by Xtrozero



There is a differnce.. You are all ready dependent on the govermemt

You use its MONEY..

Laws are controll of the goverment...

You see if you want to be "free"

I suggest you go and live in the amazon and then get back to me on what is in fact free..

Would you? Somehow i dont think so.

reply to post by Sly_U


Well said..

You see how ilogical it all is?

Pathetic that people do not admit it, yet bitch about it LOL

OMG BANK BAIL OUTS!

yet the same people who have no money print it? "funny"

reply to post by operation mindcrime


operation mindcrime,
I firstly must apologize for my late reply,
I have other business to attend to, but I am interested in conversing with you for you have now started something I value much, an intellectual debate. Of course, as in all debates, we must both provide sufficient argumentation and logic, examples of everyday life are more than acceptable in this context.

Now, let the games begin.

I am not sure if i follow your little leap of logic here but what you are saying is "truth = fact"??

Yes, Truth is fact, otherwise it would be an opinion only, would it not? Is an onion not an onion? Was Hitler not a madman who ordered mass murder? Along with Stalin, Mao, and if you go by that logic, the Bush clan and Obama? Is not sending innocent men and women to kill innocent men, women and children in the name of political ideology not the same as sending them in the name of personal profit? Both are horrendous reasons for doing, even then, no matter the reason, the outcome is the same, is it not? This is my truth, or what you might understand as opinion based on fact.

Remember, it takes any ordinary man to make statements, it takes a real one to admit being wrong.

It is good to know that there are people out there who have all the answers! This is a "fact"which you present? .......Proof???

First of, I never said I knew everything, where did I say that?
Secondly, proof of what? Proof relating to religion and the afterlife? Are you kidding me? It is unprovable, we can only have theories, therefore there is no truth, nothing that is 100% sure. Scientific method my friend. Personal beliefs are different from fact. I guess it would've been best if the OP used the word FACT as opposed to TRUTH. When it comes to religion and the afterlife, I have opinions regarding the subject, but I'm discussing facts, not spiritual beliefs.

Yes, and love is simply the chemical reaction in your brain that tells you that you have found a suitable mate for reproduction?

Just like homosexuals find their own genders attractive and pedophiles find children appealing, chemical reactions in the brain. How else do you explain this? The Devil makes them do it?
As for finding a suitable mate in life, it is a personal choice, I go by intellect first and then I go by looks. I like calm logical relationships with no hostility. Unnecessary and avoidable problems/arguments are very welcome. I also know of couples that thrive in arguments and chaos. Different people have different tastes.
We could go on about whether this is caused by genetics, chemical reactions in the brain, upbringing or even reincarnation with preset characteristics. We could also talk of morality and ethics, but then those would be other additional threads, would they not? Let's not deviate from the subject at hand.

That is not the property of money but the property of greed. Which comes from humans not money.

Money comes from humans does it not?
The way it is used is also determined by humans, is it not?
Determined by humans with the most money, no?
Politicians, multinational corporate leaders.
When was the last time you could run and have a fair chance
at winning the presidency? What about your education,
no, forget that, your intelligence and mental capacity, is it lower than the richest man on earth? We do not live in a meritocracy but a world consumed by greed. Money is king, and those with most money are kings of the world, that's why they print it and make you use it.

You seem pretty content with your conclusion of life. Comfortable even and the way you state that death is just death and nothing more suggest that you are pretty much closed to learning new things that do not correspond to your version of the "truth"

I am quite open to learning new facts about life, the only problem lies in arguing with people for the sole sake of being right as to fulfill your ID and your Ego... This is why I gave up on arguing and now am merely interested in facts and not opinions.
Therefore we speak of facts in this thread, not religious beliefs, that was merely an example the OP tried to put forward in the hopes of gathering some understanding via similar life experiences. On a side note, since you are interested, I do believe in the afterlife even though I cannot prove it. It facilitates my future passing away, everyone must die sometime, I merely try to make it as peaceful as possible for myself in the event that death does come for me. I do not know what the afterlife consists of, but I do have theories and opinions on the subject, but that would be another thread all together.

I don't know. It is your reality and your "truth" but i guess that makes it everybody's reality, right?

Reality, truth, why do you use absolutes to describe relativism when they describe the total opposite? Yet another input for the double think dictionary. A rock is a rock, it has composition yes, but it will always remain a rock in the absolute present. If you argue with this you only attempt at feeding your Ego.

I do enjoy the fact that you recognized my intellect and preemptived me with preset argumentation, just in case.
I enjoy it Now, as a matter of fact, I do not hold Aristotle,
Socrates, Protagoras or even Nietzsche as absolute truths. I am a man who has come forward through his own mind, and as such I did not borrow from others. It is one thing to read and agree with philosophers of past times, a whole other to worship them like gods and quote them at every step. Unconditionally surrendering oneself in their words and accepting them as the divine truth. A true intellectual comes up with his own conclusions, he does not borrow them from others. It is permissible to quote from time to time, but only as to show that you are not the only one with such conclusions about reality.
What you have quoted is a relativistic approach to life that is simply biased and in league with present societal modum operandi. I do not mean to offend, merely point out, what you would call, my honest opinion.










[edit on 29-12-2009 by Radekus]

reply to post by Radekus


wow for that !!

now i wish i did pay attention in english LOL!!!

some ace points AND what i loved more is that you was HONEST.

half the peeps cant even do that!! Now i know we are in deep doo doo lol

star for you my good sir!

Originally posted by Sun Spot
To the OP:

I mean this in only the nicest possible way, but I found little if any substantive truth in your original post. The message seemed overall negative, untrue, and counter-productive.

There are many who think God could exist. For you to say it couldn't is -- guess what -- a lie. Anything could exist.

The notion of bodies being merely temporary vessels for souls seems so obvious to me, but to each his own.

I completely agree that paper money is just paper, but... I haven't seen any suggestions for what to do about that. We still have to buy food and pay bills.

From one human being to another, I wish you only the best.

[edit on 28-12-2009 by Sun Spot]

You see i take no offence at what you read or think as it is your own will to do so..

The message seemed overall negative, untrue, and counter-productive.

and the world looks postive in your mind? or is it that "being positive of self" is all your really think? I am not being negitive im telling you the truth.. i some how can not understand how it is people ignore the fact our planet is in a mess and use "ego" and "self" to justify the #fest we happen to be in?

and here is my point my good friend as you stated!

There are many who think God could exist. For you to say it couldn't is -- guess what -- a lie. Anything could exist.

There are many who "THINK"

Originally posted by Radekus
reply to post by operation mindcrime

 

operation mindcrime,
I firstly must apologize for my late reply,
I have other business to attend to, but I am interested in conversing with you for you have now started something I value much, an intellectual debate. Of course, as in all debates, we must both provide sufficient argumentation and logic, examples of everyday life are more than acceptable in this context.

Yes, let's raise the argumentational level a bit.

I am not sure if i follow your little leap of logic here but what you are saying is "truth = fact"??

Yes, Truth is fact, otherwise it would be an opinion only, would it not? Is an onion not an onion? Was Hitler not a madman who ordered mass murder? Along with Stalin, Mao, and if you go by that logic, the Bush clan and Obama? Is not sending innocent men and women to kill innocent men, women and children in the name of political ideology not the same as sending them in the name of personal profit? Both are horrendous reasons for doing, even then, no matter the reason, the outcome is the same, is it not? This is my truth, or what you might understand as opinion based on fact.

Well that is just it! I have no problem with truth being a fact but who's truth shall we use? My truth, your truth? As long as it has not been estabished what the truth actually is, everybody's version of "truth" is valid. The only way this will work is if everybody has his/her own version of reality..

Remember, it takes any ordinary man to make statements, it takes a real one to admit being wrong.

Like this one?

It is good to know that there are people out there who have all the answers! This is a "fact"which you present? .......Proof???

First of, I never said I knew everything, where did I say that?

Then we can't use your version of "truth" as leading....

Secondly, proof of what? Proof relating to religion and the afterlife? Are you kidding me? It is unprovable, we can only have theories, therefore there is no truth, nothing that is 100% sure. Scientific method my friend. Personal beliefs are different from fact. I guess it would've been best if the OP used the word FACT as opposed to TRUTH. When it comes to religion and the afterlife, I have opinions regarding the subject, but I'm discussing facts, not spiritual beliefs.

Notice the bold part in the above quote? If you have not 100% certainty, how can you claim truth?

Yes, and love is simply the chemical reaction in your brain that tells you that you have found a suitable mate for reproduction?

Just like homosexuals find their own genders attractive and pedophiles find children appealing, chemical reactions in the brain. How else do you explain this? The Devil makes them do it?
As for finding a suitable mate in life, it is a personal choice, I go by intellect first and then I go by looks. I like calm logical relationships with no hostility. Unnecessary and avoidable problems/arguments are very welcome. I also know of couples that thrive in arguments and chaos. Different people have different tastes.
We could go on about whether this is caused by genetics, chemical reactions in the brain, upbringing or even reincarnation with preset characteristics. We could also talk of morality and ethics, but then those would be other additional threads, would they not? Let's not deviate from the subject at hand.

Let's not deviate indeed! (i am looking forward to that thread though!)

That is not the property of money but the property of greed. Which comes from humans not money.

Money comes from humans does it not?
The way it is used is also determined by humans, is it not?
Determined by humans with the most money, no?
Politicians, multinational corporate leaders.
When was the last time you could run and have a fair chance
at winning the presidency? What about your education,
no, forget that, your intelligence and mental capacity, is it lower than the richest man on earth? We do not live in a meritocracy but a world consumed by greed. Money is king, and those with most money are kings of the world, that's why they print it and make you use it.

People surpressing people through money is only an other way of doing what man has always done. Don't blame the means by which it is done but the ones who are doing it.

You seem pretty content with your conclusion of life. Comfortable even and the way you state that death is just death and nothing more suggest that you are pretty much closed to learning new things that do not correspond to your version of the "truth"

I am quite open to learning new facts about life, the only problem lies in arguing with people for the sole sake of being right as to fulfill your ID and your Ego... This is why I gave up on arguing and now am merely interested in facts and not opinions.

That i can understand!!

Therefore we speak of facts in this thread, not religious beliefs, that was merely an example the OP tried to put forward in the hopes of gathering some understanding via similar life experiences. On a side note, since you are interested, I do believe in the afterlife even though I cannot prove it. It facilitates my future passing away, everyone must die sometime, I merely try to make it as peaceful as possible for myself in the event that death does come for me. I do not know what the afterlife consists of, but I do have theories and opinions on the subject, but that would be another thread all together.

I guess we are both still on the fench on this whole God and afterlife thing!!

I don't know. It is your reality and your "truth" but i guess that makes it everybody's reality, right?

Reality, truth, why do you use absolutes to describe relativism when they describe the total opposite? Yet another input for the double think dictionary. A rock is a rock, it has composition yes, but it will always remain a rock in the absolute present. If you argue with this you only attempt at feeding your Ego.

That only happens if you assume that reality and truth are absolutes. I have been trying to advocate here that these are very much subjective.

I do enjoy the fact that you recognized my intellect and preemptived me with preset argumentation, just in case.
I enjoy it

Now, as a matter of fact, I do not hold Aristotle,
Socrates, Protagoras or even Nietzsche as absolute truths. I am a man who has come forward through his own mind, and as such I did not borrow from others. It is one thing to read and agree with philosophers of past times, a whole other to worship them like gods and quote them at every step. Unconditionally surrendering oneself in their words and accepting them as the divine truth. A true intellectual comes up with his own conclusions, he does not borrow them from others. It is permissible to quote from time to time, but only as to show that you are not the only one with such conclusions about reality.

Well at least we can relate.....

What you have quoted is a relativistic approach to life that is simply biased and in league with present societal modum operandi. I do not mean to offend, merely point out, what you would call, my honest opinion.

Best science is done on a blank sheet so please educate me on your knowledge of the facts regarding life.


Peace and respect


[edit on 30/12/2009 by operation mindcrime]

truth...... hardest and simplest word in this world....

reply to post by Bijen


yeah im an alien..

It was necessary to move a thread you created titled, im an alien.. which was originally posted in the Popular Alternative Theorists forum, to the Trash Bin forum. Byrd has initiated this action, and included this message about it:

LOL

i found that I R O N I C

LOL

see how easy it is?

reply to post by operation mindcrime


Operation Mind crime,

I appreciate the reply you have provided me with
and shall answer as best as I can. Now, on with the games.

Well that is just it! I have no problem with truth being a fact but who's truth shall we use? My truth, your truth? As long as it has not been established what the truth actually is, everybody's version of "truth" is valid. The only way this will work is if everybody has his/her own version of reality..

Like in all of Scientific Method, we all have theories to test out,
let's call those opinions for they are not based on fact. Then we progress to test such theories out in the real world and see if we are right or wrong. Eventually we are led to a conclusion. If we gather enough conclusions with different theories on the same matter we end up with a correlation in the end effect, as in, many similar conclusions. We can then deduce that, unless proved otherwise, that the said conclusion accumulation is the truth, or a fact if you prefer better terminology. Now, from my observation, many people argue Theories as opposed to Conclusions, this is mainly because they are too lazy to work out the testing but at the same time still wish to be right.

What I am saying is, let's speak of conclusions that we have come to rather than Theories we put in front of ourselves.
What I am getting at is, the conclusion is a 100% until it is demolished. Isn't Man's purpose to detail out the workings of society and understand it to purity? Therefore we must accept that there are indeed facts about life that we cannot deny. Would a piece of paper not burn if you put flame to it? Would you not drown if you attempted to breathe under water? I am speaking of the same things, but in life, when it comes to complicated subjects, sometimes it is easy to loose oneself in relativism, but that is mainly because we have either mixed Theories and/or undemolished as of yet Conclusions running around. An example of a wrong conclusion is to find a correlation between, say, 2 different countries. Is it safe to conclude that there is a correlation between the number of x-box 360's a country's population possesses and their overall health? Would we then assume that if we send out many x-box 360's to a given poor nation it would make the people there any more healthier?
This is a wrong assumption and a wrong conclusion, there are hidden agents at work, such as social status and wealth that play with health, the poor cannot afford health care, therefore they wouldn't be able to afford x-box 360's. It's a correlation between wealth and health as opposed to the number of items a person possesses. It is facts we are interested in, not assumptions that make us feel good about ourselves. Sometimes the truth is hard to accept because it contradicts everything we ever believed in, and thus we go into denial, it is a process I am sure you are familiar with. I mean, I assume you are well read on multiple subjects to be able to understand what I mean, I don't feel like typing out the entire process of human acceptance of truth.
The example I provided is one of many I did and will share with you to support what I am saying. I am still awaiting your own examples in life to disprove what I am saying. I am awaiting your demolishing brick to devastate my conclusions.

Then we can't use your version of "truth" as leading....

Should we then use yours?

Notice the bold part in the above quote? If you have not 100% certainty, how can you claim truth?

What you did just there is unprofessional and out of context, I merely stated that there are things we cannot be sure of 100% because we cannot test them out, I pointed out religion as being one of them. I am positive though that one day we will have the technology necessary to put all out Theories and false conclusions to rest. Try not to put everything in one basket because then you'll end up with multiple fallacies and false conclusions. Study one item at a time, in detail, do not mix it unless you have formed a conclusion that you are sure cannot be demolished. When I stated that there is no truth I was referring to religion, not the world in general, and as stated above, we will most probably tap into a real provable conclusion once we have the necessary technology to do so.

People surpressing people through money is only an other way of doing what man has always done. Don't blame the means by which it is done but the ones who are doing it.

And indeed I am, but the system by which they govern must also be taken into account and eliminated. Solutions to our current Feudal system do exist. The Feudal system is just that, no matter what label people put on it, communism, capitalism, it's all the same. What we need is a different form of government all together. I could go into details, but then I would write up a book and would run out of room to answer you.

That only happens if you assume that reality and truth are absolutes. I have been trying to advocate here that these are very much subjective.

And I have been trying to advocate that your conclusion is wrong.

reply to post by 13579


13579,

You don't need no English classes to know English,
Read in English and you shall be enlightenned.
Just by reading the here and now you are developing
your vocabulary. This is How I came to perfect my ability
to speak and write it. The basics I learned from television, since I do not watch it anymore, internet articles became my source of knowledge.

We are in deep doo doo indeed, the reason behind people's utter lack of imagination and clear headed thinking is linked to the society's mode of operations. All the authors you hear about, all the movies you hear about, all the geniuses you hear about, I'm not too impressed by. Society is constructed in such a way as to limit everyone's intellectual potential. Everyone can become the next Tesla if only they applied themselves to it. When a man has all for him provided, he has time to develop the self. Why do you think this world is such a rat race? Make you stressed, make you deal with office politics, make you worry about paying bills, make you this, make you that. It's all nonsense constructed to keep you busy and ignorant. When you are busy you do not think, instead you accept what is given to you as fact. This happens because you do not have time to think about the information presented to you, the only choice presented to you is to follow your gut feelings in either accepting or denying what is given to you as information. You do not spend a second on critical thinking. What shocks me is that humanity is so far gone that they have trouble discerning between what is real and what is not. When you do not have strong beliefs and believe in relativity, you are opinionless and easy to steer by mass media. In effect, you become a mindless drone, unconsciously spewing bogus information and presenting it as fact, believing in it even, to the point where you become a propaganda agent of the system without even noticing. Why else does the majority of the population share similar beliefs, no matter what colour and ethnicity they are, or what religion they belong to. It's because they have been so badly brainwashed they accept the commonality as truth. Hitler said it himself, tell a Big lie and everyone will believe it, to add to that I have to say, repeat the lie many times and you are sure to get even the smartest of the intelligencja to scratch their heads in puzzlement. Take into consideration now that the majority of the population sit in front of the television screen ingesting hundreds of commercials a day whilst learning about the world through monopolized news outlets, here In Canada we got the Aspers controlling most of our mass media. You won't hear about how a native guy near Montreal tried to tackle the dude carrying the Olympic torch when the torch passed through native land. Why? because the mass media doesn't want you to hear about native struggles. It's actually a slow form of ethnocide, a subject I could talk on for quite some time. A subject you will not hear on Fox News, CNN or our counter parts, CTV or CBC.

Operation MindCrime,

I am still awaiting your response...

OP,


I have to agree completely with you, but I'm afraid this is one of those things you just can't argue into peoples' heads. I saw one member even remarking that he didn't even know what you guys were even arguing about. Duh!


You have to come very clean with yourself to admit you don't really KNOW anything, you're just guessing based on your life's experiences, and that doesn't really mean much in the wider scheme of things... At least according to my own life experiences.


The Tao te Ching reflects the same sentiments:

Stop thinking, and end your problems.
What difference between yes and no?
What difference between success and failure?
Must you value what others value,
avoid what others avoid?
How ridiculous!

Other people are excited,
as though they were at a parade.
I alone don't care,
I alone am expressionless,
like an infant before it can smile.

Other people have what they need;
I alone possess nothing.
I alone drift about,
like someone without a home.
I am like an idiot, my mind is so empty.

Other people are bright;
I alone am dark.
Other people are sharper;
I alone am dull.
Other people have a purpose;
I alone don't know.
I drift like a wave on the ocean,
I blow as aimless as the wind.

I am different from ordinary people.
I drink from the Great Mother's breasts.

acc6.its.brooklyn.cuny.edu...

reply to post by bsbray11


such is life.. for i can not change the will of man for man has to change it..

its just sad to see manking piss it up the wall because of ego.. i mean is it just a few of us who are honest???


honest to admit we are humble as the rest are in the rat game ?? lol its so patheitc yet needed in some way

i dont know..

such is life.. for i can not change the will of man for man has to change it..

You answered all of your questions yourself.

Maybe someday we will change things. I certainly do hope so, but for now, we are stuck with what we have.

cest la vie

Originally posted by Radekus
reply to post by operation mindcrime

 

Radekus,

Sorry for the late reply but a lot of alcohol got in the way. Happy new year by the way.

Now, on with the games.

Yes, let's contiue...

Like in all of Scientific Method, we all have theories to test out,
let's call those opinions for they are not based on fact. Then we progress to test such theories out in the real world and see if we are right or wrong. Eventually we are led to a conclusion.

And would that be a conclusion based upon the available information or would that be a conclusion based on 100% fact?

If we gather enough conclusions with different theories on the same matter we end up with a correlation in the end effect, as in, many similar conclusions. We can then deduce that, unless proved otherwise, that the said conclusion accumulation is the truth, or a fact if you prefer better terminology.

This is a very accurate way of determening if something is true but we should not forget the "conclusions" with which we work have to 100%.

Now, from my observation, many people argue Theories as opposed to Conclusions, this is mainly because they are too lazy to work out the testing but at the same time still wish to be right.

Oh boy, i am glad those are your words and not mine. Let's take the death penalty for instance. The country were i live concluded that putting a man to death will not solve the issue. Other countries have concluded that putting a man to death does indeed solve the problem. Where is the truth regarding this matter? We should have enough "conclusions" by now to know wether or not it is correct to do so.

What I am saying is, let's speak of conclusions that we have come to rather than Theories we put in front of ourselves.
What I am getting at is, the conclusion is a 100% until it is demolished. Isn't Man's purpose to detail out the workings of society and understand it to purity?

Conclusions are just that, conclusions. You might find consolidation in the fact that science is in on it and people have actually taken the effort of thinking about a subject, finding conclusions to support this. And state it to be fact but....what if it is found later that the conclusions were incorrect. Does the truth change to a lie? Was it ever truth? How about all the things that we already agreed upon as fact. What if these are found, through reseach or discovery, to be false?

What i am saying is, truth is subject to change thus making it relative.

Therefore we must accept that there are indeed facts about life that we cannot deny. Would a piece of paper not burn if you put flame to it? Would you not drown if you attempted to breathe under water? I am speaking of the same things, but in life, when it comes to complicated subjects, sometimes it is easy to loose oneself in relativism, but that is mainly because we have either mixed Theories and/or undemolished as of yet Conclusions running around.

Let's leave the simple things for what they are because i am not gonna debate with you on wether a piece of paper would burn or not when exposed to an open flame....I'd say relativity is pretty unavoidable when dealing with the more complicated matters. Some ideas can not possibly have a conclusion and thus no truth. At least not a general truth.

It is facts we are interested in, not assumptions that make us feel good about ourselves. Sometimes the truth is hard to accept because it contradicts everything we ever believed in, and thus we go into denial, it is a process I am sure you are familiar with. I mean, I assume you are well read on multiple subjects to be able to understand what I mean, I don't feel like typing out the entire process of human acceptance of truth.

Sometimes people question the "facts" that are presented to them and they don't go into denial but more hold to their version of the truth. Thank God they did or we'd still be living on a flat disk positioned in the center of the universe with all the others planets and stars revolving around us...

The example I provided is one of many I did and will share with you to support what I am saying. I am still awaiting your own examples in life to disprove what I am saying. I am awaiting your demolishing brick to devastate my conclusions.

I will try to come up with something....

Should we then use yours?

Let's not!! My version of truth is only valid for my reality.

What you did just there is unprofessional and out of context, I merely stated that there are things we cannot be sure of 100% because we cannot test them out, I pointed out religion as being one of them.

So these are matters without truth? Or do they have a truth but we have yet to find them? Everything already has a certain truth within it and through experimenting, testing you get to a conclusion and this conclusion does then equal truth.......i still say the conclusion subjective. No matter how many people you get behind you to support your claim.

I am positive though that one day we will have the technology necessary to put all out Theories and false conclusions to rest. Try not to put everything in one basket because then you'll end up with multiple fallacies and false conclusions. Study one item at a time, in detail, do not mix it unless you have formed a conclusion that you are sure cannot be demolished. When I stated that there is no truth I was referring to religion, not the world in general, and as stated above, we will most probably tap into a real provable conclusion once we have the necessary technology to do so.

And how does one exactly pull that off, preventing fallacies or false conclusions? If nobody sees the fallacy the lie will be made truth!! And even if errors were prevented in drawing conclusions, the matter would always have to remain open because other conclusion might relay the conclusion on which the truth was based....

And indeed I am, but the system by which they govern must also be taken into account and eliminated. Solutions to our current Feudal system do exist. The Feudal system is just that, no matter what label people put on it, communism, capitalism, it's all the same. What we need is a different form of government all together. I could go into details, but then I would write up a book and would run out of room to answer you.

What was again....democracy is merely the best temporary solution.

And I have been trying to advocate that your conclusion is wrong.

And you have been doing one h*ll of a job..

Peace and respect

[edit on 2/1/2010 by operation mindcrime]

reply to post by Radekus


I couldn't resist posting this quote..

Just because one does not know that one’s beliefs are true does not mean that one should not forcefully will them to be true. Indeed, if there is no transcendental truth, we are given the freedom to create truth as we want it to be....

Therefore, we humans need to act as if we are certain of what we are doing even though we cannot be certain.

From Protagoras to Nietzsche....

Either proof the existence of transcendental truth (it would need to transcend the limits of perception) or accept it is relative.

Peace

reply to post by operation mindcrime


Operation mindcrime,

I'll answer you soon, once the bells stop ringing in my head...

New Years was a blast, hehe.

I'm eager to reply to you since I see that you are still stuck
in uncertainty and relativism. I shall show you the light young grasshopper.
But my reply will either come later today or tomorrow because
I feel horrible right now...

reply to post by Radekus


Thank you for keeping me up to date.

The bells did indeed rings pretty loud in my head aswell so please take you time recovering and i will wait for your reply, if needed, indefinitely.

Now that doesn't mean a whole lot in your reality because indefinity is not a fact right? puz:

I am gonna stop now. Good luck with recuperating!!!

Peace