Astrology misconceptions cleared up - World Ages, 2012, pandemic etc.

I am starting this thread because there are vague misconceptions even on ATS about astrology and predictions, on the World Ages from various cultures, but with the astronomical basis of astrological evaluations not explained to the layman in sufficient detail.
If someone is interested, I am happy to share details and various research results on this topic.

I am a professional astrologer, who practices Vedic and sidereal astrology daily. I happen to think that both Eastern and Western traditions come from the same basis. See articles at melocco.nnx.hu...

I think the basis of astrological thought must be translated to the layman or laywoman to simple logical language first, before we jump to interpretations.

My assertions are as follows:

1. We are not yet in the age of Aquarius by any counting. Those who say we are simply do not know what World Ages mean and how they are calculated. We are in the Age of Pisces presently.

2. World Ages per astro signs cannot be counted using the simple Western zodiac popularized in magazines. You need to calculate and use TWO WHEELS to establish world ages. If you only use tropical Placidus - as most Western astrologers do - we would be forever stuck in the Age of Aries.

3. In sidereal and Oriental astrology, we are in the Age of Pisces. And we will be until about 2380 in my estimation. This can be calculated very easily if you have sidereal or Vedic software.

4. Nothing special is happening in astrological terms in 2012 Dec. 31. (The times before that are pretty turbulent though.) 2012 Dec. cannot be a shift of World Ages per sign, because the signs are simply not there. Neither can it be a major shift in Vedic Ages (Kali Yug etc.) according to any Vedic astrology tradition. It can be a prelude of a shift of Vedic Yugas that could arrive in a few hundred years, though. This is clear if you see what 2012 means translated to Eurasian astrology from Mayan observations:

On Dec. 21, 2012, the day of the annual winter solstice, the Sun will rise roughly over the center of the Milky Way galaxy. This happens once every cc. 25,920 years.

5. It is worthless to turn to seers, channeled information or ET's for ballpark estimates for when we will enter the Age of Aquarius or to establish where Hindus put their Vedic Yugas before you know what these terms technically mean. I mean no disrespect for these, but you do not want to turn to a medium to establish the distance of New York and Amsterdam. You either get a map and calculate it or look it up in an encyclopedia.

There are very interesting theories and speculations across the board about 2012, the current pandemic, and astrological reasons supplied for events that happened or predicted all across ATS. I am intrigued by some of the possibilities and I would be happier if people would come closer to valid scientific and esoterical theories instead of spilling misinformation - probably due to ignorance.

On some of these subjects there are divergent opinions - I know, I have been researching them for quite a while. However, these opinions are either within certain boundaries that can be understood with eighth-grade math, or they are understood differently in different traditions.
John Major Jenkins is one scholar who related different traditions of world ages in his books - if you want to have a good foundation to what I am talking about, you may want to read his Galactic Alignment:
www.amazon.com...

I will be happy to provide any other details or explanations if you ask. To explain everything right at the start would take too long. I have data for some of your questions, and I can share prevalent theories regarding some others.

I will try to keep hard data on the one hand, interpretation and speculations on the other hand separate, and ask you to do the same if you contribute.

Mods, please send me a reply if this OP is not in the correct forum group of ATS.)

It is worthless to turn to seers, channeled information or ET's for ballpark estimates for when we will enter the Age of Aquarius or to establish where Hindus put their Vedic Yugas before you know what these terms technically mean. I mean no disrespect for these, but you do not want to turn to a medium to establish the distance of New York and Amsterdam. You either get a map and calculate it or look it up in an encyclopedia

We all look forward to being educated on the subject that we too have researched thoroughly although we are not all as highly educated as you, I believe I can speak on behalf of others when I say we all have our theories and conclusions.


Edit: - After reading your post again I have to ask do you have any idea how your coming across to us? over and over again I read posts from new members that tell us how we have got it all wrong and must understand what its all about before we really undertand what its all about.

Please I urge you before the onslaught begins, re read your post and change it so you don't sound like your more superior than us. This isn't some two bit site with little kiddies exchanging ideas, if you stick around, in time you will see this site has very very intelligent members from all sorts of backgrounds, with alot of knowledge.

Just to add, if the mods want to move the thread they won't ask you.











[edit on 13-5-2009 by franspeakfree]

I have these questions

1. How do planets affect a person ?

2. Why is it important to know the location of these planets at the time of
one's birth?

3. Why do the same planets affect different people differently at any given
time?

4. How are we able to predict the future, based on planetary movements?




[edit on 13-5-2009 by sunny_2008ny]

reply to post by franspeakfree


I agree. I just read what she wrote on my thread about astrology transits and swine flu. She needs an attitude adjustment in the way she relates to people AND the ability to accept the fact that she is in NO position to assume she is any authorty on the issues she has brought up in this thread. She is just one of millions who have an opinion and trying to shove that down people's throats is only going to meet with resistance and dislike.

reply to post by franspeakfree

Thank you for pointing that out... I did not want to come across as unthoughtful. I may be lecturing a bit - but there is genuine research behind it. I am an avid reader - and recently poster - of/at ATS, but from the point of view of astrology, there are severe misconceptions I read here that do not come up to the level of political, scientific and mediumistic info otherwise found here. A recent thread on the pandemic of 1918 and astrology proves my point. www.abovetopsecret.com... I posted my take there because it is outrageous professionally. Even a beginner can point out with the help of an astrology software could demonstrate that the OP was simply incorrect. And others who are otherwise smart may not know enough to debunk that.

That is why I thought I could help. In fact it was that thread that made me a little off balance and that is why I searched through all ATS posts on the Age of Aquarius and such problematic assertions - hence my tone. Forgive me, and if you want any details as to why, I will be back in a few hours.

I am not superior to others here, and I think some very sharp people and possible ET's are posting here, but I have researched this stuff for about 18 years - so I have some things to share.

I will check back in a few hours - got to drive to a class.

Originally posted by Kokatsi
reply to post by franspeakfree

 

and possible ET's are posting here,

Just curious but what would give you that idea?

[edit on 13-5-2009 by Mtheory]

reply to post by cosmicpixie


OK... What software do you use? Or what ephemeris?

How can you assert that Jupiter and Neptune were standing in conjunction in early 1918 (when the flu broke out) when in fact they only approached each other within one sign's distance (30 degrees) later on in the year (summer) when the pandemic was already underway, and they were only in strict conjunction even later in 1919?

That thread is a bit unprofessional. Too bad, because the theory has some merit.

If you got some harsh answers, you have no one other to blame than yourself.

Deny ignorance.
I am not attacking you, I am against ignorance.

And what is this stuff about "new members"? If an older member says two and two make five, isn't there perhaps time and space for a "new member" to correct that? ATS is not an elementary school where seniority is the only basis of authority. That would be unworthy of the hundreds of interesting pages of thought with references I have read through here.

The point is not whether you like me or not, but whether what you were saying is true to start with. I think there was no conjunction when the pandemic broke out in early 1918.

I use Kala 2005 which is based on the Swiss ephemeris.

reply to post by Kokatsi


"Jupiter and Neptune were conjunct when the 1918 Pandemic was in swing, making an "exact" conjunction in September 1919."

This was what I said. I did not mean it was conjunct IN 1918 but conjunct WITHIN a time frame of the pandemic known as the 1918 pandemic. It was an awkward sentence in retrospect but one borne out of rushing my writing rather than any ignorance on my part. You took one sentence out of my thread, decided I was intentionally misleading people and that I was "ignorant" and then proceeded to have a right old go at me and undermine my other findings because of one shoddy sentence I wrote that might have given people the wrong idea. I never said the conjunction began when the 1918 virus broke out and I know the orbs allowed for conjunctions thankyou. I too have studied Astrology - 17 years now.

As for all the other aspects I mentioned occuring they are correct, so quite how I wrote a load of BS in your eyes is a mystery to me. As mentioned on my thread, I DID bring up the Uranus-Saturn opposition , you just didn't read that far down to notice it. Seems like you read my first post only, none of the links I subsequently provided, and proceeded to judge me while ranting on this thread about how everyone else who doesn't practice your system has got things wrong ? Consider looking through the links because other Astrologers have been noticing correlations between 1918 and now, it's interesting stuff.

I use Raphael's ephemeris. Western Astrology has worked just fine for me as I'm sure Vedic works just fine for you. I am not remotely interested in arguing the issue with you and request that you stop judging me simply because of one shoddy sentence I wrote on my swine flu thread and for holding a different view to you on what system is best.

Well if there's one lesson I've learned here , it is to be much more careful about the way I structure my sentences.........




[edit on 13/5/09 by cosmicpixie]

reply to post by sunny_2008ny

I have these questions

1. How do planets affect a person ?

2. Why is it important to know the location of these planets at the time of
one's birth?

3. Why do the same planets affect different people differently at any given
time?

4. How are we able to predict the future, based on planetary movements?

Kokatsi, can you answer my questions?

[edit on 13-5-2009 by sunny_2008ny]

Coming from an interested but otherwise uneducated-on-this-subject person, I look forward to keeping up with this thread. S&F for OP. You did not come across as condescending to me at all, perhaps that is because I don't pretend to have knowledge of astrology or a stake in any of the methods used and therefore am happy to be educated by all.

I just hope that this thread will not become a discussion of other threads.

reply to post by Kokatsi


Why would you suspect that ET's are posting here?

to Witness 2008 - Thank you, I am reassured... I hope valuable things will come out here.

to sunny2008ny: these are very general questions on astrology. I will answer in brief. 1. No one knows how exactly the planets work. Jung therozed that they work on the basis of synchonicity. I am sometimes awed how accurate even widely different astrologies can be on your life, themes etc. 2. That is the basis of synchronicity. Astrology says it is no chance you were born where and when. Karmic astrology says you have chosen to incarnate at that point. Astrologies are number mysticism systems, and back to your Question #1, the planets are the only natural variables placed in a number matrix. So they correspond to what you want to learn in this life. I would add astrology is an empirical science, that is, people simply recorded that when such and such planets were here and there, certain characters or events will be more predominant. It gives you a general framework on your life, and sometimes you can see collective events to a certain degree from comparing your constellations of the moment to recorded experience. That is why tradition is important. 3. this is already very complex - every person has an individual chart. Ascendant, Moon, etc. and even twins have different chart strengths. still, there are collective things too, e.g. right now Mercury is in retrograde, which means it is moving backwards looked at from the Earth comapred to its usual sun-following course. That translates to difficulties with communication, travel, arrangements, while in-depth conversations are very meaningful, therapy etc. So to sum it up, they affect people differently because each person has a unique chart and present transits affect it differently. 4. We can only predict some generalities, based on past ecperience and principles derived from that. That is why I am looking forward to an analysis of 2012 dec 31 sunrise. In certain people's charts some stuff is predetermined, in others there is more free will operating, but there is always some, and indvidials always have choices.

That's my two cent's worth on how it works. You do not have to believe everything an astrologer tells you, it is a limited perspective. Seers sometimes know more.

To Witness 2008 on aliens: You could see the thread Questions for ReconPilot here www.abovetopsecret.com... He claims to be a humanoid alien. He says there are many people whose ancestors came from different other star systems. It is possible - he is very convincing to me.

reply to post by cosmicpixie

Cosmicpixie, I am sorry, and I am glad this was a misunderstanding about Jupiter and Neptune being together already in early 1918. You came across as a competent astrologer. I will return to your thread too and make a post to clear this up. Remember, this is Mercury retrograde now - a classic time for misunderstandings at a superficial level.

Quote from cosmicpixie: "This was what I said. I did not mean it was conjunct IN 1918 but conjunct WITHIN a time frame of the pandemic known as the 1918 pandemic." OK...

Please note that I did not intentionally misinterpret your sentence. I really misunderstood it - or that is how it came across... We all learn here.

I did not mean other negative things either. I read scores of other threads where people mention that we are in an Age of Aquarius. I would like to share what I know as the theory of World Ages, intelligible for a layman, and I would like your perspective too.

Cosmicpixie, I am looking forward would be interested in what you could say from a Western point of view about 2012. It would be great if you posted about what you see in a mundane chart of 2012. Most people put it at sunrise. So why not do a sunrise mundane chart for Greenwich 2012 Dec. 31, I think sunrise is about 7:43, although my software says the Sun joins the ASC about 8:10 in the morning... Again, some prophecies said 11 o'clock. Take your pick, and we will post what we see from an astrology point of view - and then we can quote prophesies or visions... What do you say?

I would add what I see from a sidereal-Vedic point of view. Out of this, people will see a part of what forces are at work in 2012.

One last thing: I am not against Western astrology. I respect it. Several of my disciples manage both systems and frequently arrive at the same interpretations with personal charts.

On the question of using the two zodiacs, I think people who use both to different ends are at an advantage. I simply know more about a Vedic-based system, although I do use outer planets. Rob Hand experimented with sidereal astrology as well...

This is like speaking fluent Spanish and learning a bit of Portuguese. Who can say that one language is better than the other? Indian and sidereal just jumped in my life, and I ended up being an astrologer.

What I want to say about world ages to people who may know less about the astronomical stuff in astrologies than you, comes precisely from this. (post follows to other readers). I would like your perspective. I will debate only if I think it is important for forwarding knowledge and denying ignorance, and I may have or quote alternative theories. (I do not mean I wil debate your interpretation of 2012 if you provide some insights for us, since I know too little of some aspects of Western astrology to evaluate that).

I also welcome visions and correlations to Mayan stuff. I may want to ask questions - some posters on ATS seem to know much about the tzolkin. (I have also had visions on what "an end of the Mayan calendar" means. I think based on visions that that may signal an end to the blood-sacrifice image of god with the Mayans. I do not idolize them although there were quite closer to nature than modern people - I have had a Mayan life that I relived in reincarnational therapy... It was prettty tough.)

I hope for the other's sake too that I managed to arouse your interest...

reply to post by Iamonlyhuman

So here's what I can recap of one system of world ages:

If you use BOTH zodiac wheels, the Western tropical one (tropical means "moving" because the Spring Equinox moves backwards one degree about every 70 years), placed upon the sidereal one (sidereal means where the constellations actually are in the sky - divided into 12 equal segments by tradition), their RELATIONSHIP will explain all the World Ages. You can use some science here too.

(As a note: most Oriental astrology does interpretations based on the sidereal zodiac. So if a Hindu buys a Western ephemeris, and some planet is at 23 degrees of a sign, he/she will deduct the ayanamsha - the difference - from it, for example 23 degrees 18 minutes around early 1961, and the same planet will end up at the end of the preceding sign in the Oriental zodiac. Sidereal Western astrologers do the same. So if your Sun is at the beginning or Aries - born around March 25, say - your Sun will fall into Pisces in the Indian counting.)

The spring point of Aries 0 degrees - the starting point of the Western tropical zodiac - falls into about 6 degrees Pisces now. That means that on every March the 20th evening, when the Sun starts the new tropical cycle (it enters Aries in Western tropical astrology), it is in the constellation Pisces.

This moving backwards slowly is called precession. The entire cycle lasts about 26,000 years. One Hindu school thtat published in English already in the 19th century - Yukteshwar's Holy Science - says the Sun is moving around its double, its dark companion every 24,000 years.

Most scientists today would say the cycle lasts more precisely about 25,920 years. John Major Jenkins did a thorough analysis of comparing different writings on the subject in the book referred to in the OP. World ages come about if you divide this number by 12, and see where the cross of the equinoxes and solctices would fall. Each and every zodiacal sign lasts approximately 2,160 years, translated: the Sun would be in Aries exactly at the hour of the spring equinox all through the Age of Aries, it would be in Pisces every time astronomical Spring begins all through the Age of Pisces, and when we arrive in the Age of Aquarius, the Sun will be in Aquarius at the exact astronomical spring.

Now the question remains: this timing obviously depends upon where you draw the boundaries of the sidereal zodiac. Narrowing it down: after you establish a beginning point in the sky in the path of the Sun, the rest of the twelve equal divisions follow from that beginning point.

The Western tropical one is easy to calculate from the four cardinal points: the spring and fall equinoxes, and the summer and winter solstices. Now where do you get those? The spring and the fall equinoxes mean that spring and fall respectively begin when the length of a day equals to the corresponding night. "Equinox" means equal night in Latin.)

Various traditions put sidereal zodiacs at slightly different places. The Fagan and Bradley zodiacs are used by sidereal Western astrologers. Most Indians use the Lahiri zodiac and ayanamsha (difference amount and rate relative to the tropical), some use Krishnamurti. There are a few more. I use Lahiri, which is close to Krishnamurti. So you see, these various sidereal theories would posit different boundaries for the well-known 12 signs.

You don't want any significant group of a traditional constellation fall out from your division, then you wil rotate your wheel until you arrive at a best compromise.

Now physically Taurus is quite big, Scorpio is very small, and there is a 13th sign jutting in, Ophiucus. Some astrologers swear by using these actual boundaries (which would result in 13 unequal signs), but it is difficult to apply either Western or Eastern techniques to that 'natural' zodiac, and I still have yet to see any meaningful interpretations...

reply to post by Kokatsi


I did not know of Reconpilot. I appreciate your response.

My instinct, my dreams, my brain tells me that change is in store for our plant and ourselves. I have no idea if this will happen in 2012 as a result of planetary alignment , Planet X moving in on us or just some man made catapult.

I do find the Maya calender intriguing with it's thirteen Baktunes and the shear accuracy of it.

Our role in the Cosmos must change, my bones, my heart and mind plead for change. This critical mass we are at demands change.

reply to post by Iamonlyhuman
Continuing one system of world ages.

Most traditional astrology divides the sky (the Sun's path, although the Chinese work with the Equator as well) into 12 equal segments. So everyone agrees on the Western tropical division, astronomers and software calculate it, since it is relatively easy to calculate from the four cardinal points of the year. (The longest night is the Winter solstice and the longest day is the Summer one.) But there are different versions on the boundaries of the 12 sidereal signs - astrologers have their preferences. Anyway, the planets are the only natural variables in a number matrix. The constellations are interpreted differently but it is odd that around the Earth they do fall into 12 clearly recognisable groups... Almost as if planned. (The aliens are not repsonsible for this part.)

Translated to time, this means that differing sidereal wheels would result in differing start dates for a given World Age. But not that different. I have yet to see an astrologer who thinks we are in the Age of Aquarius as defined above - the Sun rising in sidereal Aquarius already, for the concomitant of that assertion would be that he or she would have to push or pull the boundaries of the sidereal zodiac as well as the actual constellations. This is insignificant to people who do only tropical charts, but without a sidereal zodiac of some sort, you simply cannot have a basis for the world ages. Since tradition says they exist, it makes sense for even a tropical astrologer to think this through and establish where she or he would place the boundaries of a 12-equal division.

A little math: if the Age of Aquarius does not start at about 2380 as my favorite sidereal zodiac version would suggest, but let's say, about 140 years earlier, that is, 2240, then the boundaries of the 12 signs in the Hindu/sidereal traditions would come forward about 2 degrees. That means all planets would change signs a little later than they do now. With slow-moving planets this difference can be quite big, and that is where astrological tradition comes in with the record of experience.

According to James Braha, who works with both systems, the same transits should be interpreted slightly differently in the two zodiacs. For example Pluto now is in early Sagittarius, in the lunar constellation Mula since about dec 6, 2005. It is already in Capricorn, the next sign in the tropical, since there is about 24 degrees difference between the two now.

If a scientist comes up with a theory of precession, they look at the changes of the solar system and extrapolate from that. The thing is, while Indians have several traditions on this subject (the ayanamsha), science has only been measuring precession since about 150 years. The speed of precession is rising. It roughly corresponds to the Lahiri or Kishnamurty values for births in the 1960's and 70's. We will know this more exactly in a few hundred years!

Astrological interpretation from Western sources says that Christianity is a dominant force in the Age of Pisces - a faith based on sacrifice and love. Aquarius would be more community-oriented and future-oriented. My teacher says Pisces also means waking up the soul and mass sacrifices. Well we still have our share of that. I could not argue that the nuking of Iraq is a great Aquarian happening... Environmental sacrifice is also there.

Ther are important transits - where the planets are now - in the sky involving Aquarius and its co-ruler Uranus. The most sgnificant is that Saturn - planet of structure and conservatism among other things - is in the opposite part of the sky to Uranus which is in its own sign Aquarius in sidereal astrology (orthodox Indians do not use the three outer planets, only the visible ones and the nodes of the Moon.)

reply to post by Witness2008
Change is abundant, in sidereal Saturn is opposed to Uranus, and in the sign of Leo and Aquarius, which mean among other things community versus rulership.

This means the system of rulership is undergoing a very deep change presently. The same happened but in a smaller scale in 1918-19 - with empires falling and Europe's borders redrawn. This was preceded by a conjunction of the South Node of the Moon (Ketu in Indian), in late 2007, in Leo (which is rulership). Ketu means closing, finishing. In Western history, a similar change to the 2007 one was seen when Napoleon took power - Saturn was with Ketu, however, the opposing planet was Pluto then in Aquarius, and not Uranus as it is now. Pluto is dark power, resulting in the French Revolution being hijacked by an empire that established secret police etc. The Illuminati. Mass suffering for Native peoples of the world. The British Empire with the setting sun lacking...

Now the change is overall more positive, Uranus does not let people keep the old way of thinking about power any more. Obama's election is obviously a relief from a community and future-oriented point of view, although this is slightly off-thread... It may be only the first step.

Back to theory: the end of the Age of Aries means that the two zodiacs coincide for a short while. According to the Lahiri committee of India, this happened in A.D. 285. Surely the early Middle Ages is a time when Christianity became an important factor. Yukteshwar himself said A.D. 499. Note that there is a slight difference, Age of Aq could start around 2380 in my software but if you add 2,160 to 285, you get 2,445.

Jenkins says the Sun may be a double star system as the Indians wrote (Yukteshwar's book actually predates the realization by science that galaxies exist and that the solar system is moving in one, the Milky Way.) This sounded inplausible in the 1880's but it is more credible now. There are astronomers committed to that theory. Now this brings up the Indian cycles - Kali Yug etc. J. M. Jenkins says in Galactic Alignment that Sri Yukteshwar's Holy Science advances the 24,000 year cycle which is pretty close to what science today estimates at 25,920. This was divided into yugas - great ages - and all I say about that now is that the changing point of two Kali Yugas - ages of darkness -, that is, the deepest point of a cycle - occurs when the two zodiacs are coinciding, and that is probably when the Sun is either nearest to or farthest from its Dark Companion, I can't recall which, but it is a significant extreme anyway.

Jenkins points out that while Yukteshwar interpreted ancient Indian writings very simply, taking one day in a scripture meaning one day, other Hindu schools (such as the Hare Krishna) will interpret the same ancient writings as talking about Days of Brahma or such, and state that that means millions of years. So according to a lot of Hindu gurus, we will remain in Kali Yuga for a long time to come, perhaps millions of years, thousands at the least. Their explanations are somewhat off the wall to my taste, I am not concerned with them, and neither is Jenkins, because Yukteshwar is pretty close to modern science and the (modified Yukteshwarian) explanations fit with my astrological research so far.

2012 is not a shift date of Hindu Yugas, though it could mean the end of a 400-hundred year warming up of a period leading into Dwapara Yuga (where at least you have science and such). The Yugas do not coincide with the World Ages where we check the Sun's position in Spring in the 12 sidereal signs, except it makes sense in theory to put the boundary of the descending and ascending Kali Yug to the same year, somewhere between AD 285 and 499.

I will search for a good drawing on the Hindu world ages and post it as soon I can... Will be back.

reply to post by Kokatsi


Thanks for clearing the air Kokatsi. I probably over-reacted a bit, I easily take offence , but I'm glad for the issue to be over with and offer you my apologies for my own tone

You have certainly posted some very interesting and knowledgeable food for thought and when I have a bit more time, I will read through things thoroughly . I am always keen to learn, but alot of what you have said is new to me so will take a fair amount of time for me to digest and more time again to look into the other research material you might have mentioned. I like to have a fairly thorough grasp of a subject before I form any views or insights and right now I have website work to focus on as have been neglecting things for a few weeks due to being caught up in all the swine flu drama....

reply to post by cosmicpixie

Thank you cosmicpixie!

I await when you have time to review this and am looking forward to see your contribution perhaps...

In the meantime I wish more people could review this information but it seems a bit forgotten now ... anyway I am going to go ahead and do the veid reading for 2012 - read your other topic on that (the Maittreya) too, very interesting, full of visionary stuff... They keep on pushing this "you will be saved or destroyed in 2012" stuff - now instead of Christ they have Maitreya - but I will post this there...

This is an important perspective for me - what awaits us in the years to come. NWO rule or peaceful change? Or both at the same time? Nibiru - I saw that in one dream but then again that may be something they WANT you to see in your dream. Who knows. I can see no astronomical evidence so far. Perhaps that is why we are here to clear these things up a little bit...

reply to post by Kokatsi


No I would not ask a seer a question about milage from one point to another. If I was going to do this I would be looking for a more detailed description of the events on my journey from point A to point B.

What I do feel we lack is the understanding that all of this knowledge works better when all groups work together to get the answers to see the big picture. If you take a good astrologer, seer, channeler and reader put them together then you have the big picture. If they all work apart you have bits and pieces of a picture.

I use to live around a group of people all gifted and talented with different abilities. I also consider the ability to read charts a gift. Each one on their own gave small pictures. Yet when you put them all together you get the big picture or at least a bigger more detailed picture.

I've yet to meet a REAL et from outerspace. Or read a thread by one that strikes me as truth in my gut. You mentioned recon pilot. You may also want to try hidden hand, joan the blind..and many others. We had a quite a round of so called ET's making one time wonder threads on here. Nothing any of them said hadn't been said anywhere else in some other popular works by other people. IMHO these people take the most popular beliefs of those that search more into the ufo side of things put them in their post while making claims of cloning themselves thru the ages, or they come from an old family line either here to help us or destroy us.

They remind me of some people on singles sites that reinvent themselves to be what they are not.