Be the change you wish to see.

I'm seeing a lot of threads recently about how ATS is becoming this...and that... saying that standards are slipping etc....

Now personally I don't think alot of these claims are true. We're a diverse bunch and we all have our own viewpoints - but it struck me that if all the people who were posting such things took some time out instead, picked their favourite ATS style subject and wrote about it in a thread topic of their own, suddenly the board would be alive with dozens of new posts and maybe some new angles on the things we all like - right?

Its a simple premise - be the change you wish to see.

So if you think there's not enough on one particular subject, write something.

If you think that people are being impolite, don't stoop to that level. Instead be extra curteous in what you post.

If someone tries to smear or debunk your well thought out and excellent topic, debate with that person, challenge them to prove you wrong and back up your initial claims. Give them evidence and afford them patience and civility.

If you are wrong, admit it. Its true that no one likes to be proved wrong, but at the same time there is no shame in it. We're all here to learn. No one is going to think less of you for being wrong.

If you reach a dead end, or you feel someone is being unreasonable then step back, withdraw with grace, have some fun in BTS maybe and buy yourself the time to come back to the argument reinvigorated, or wiser (or both!). If push comes to shove theres a handy ignore feature than can have marvellous affects on your sanity.

You may not agree with someones politics. If not explain why in stead of resorting to name calling and partisan bickering. Name calling is the ultimate kop out. It makes people look shallow.

And - on the off chance that on this board of thousands of posts, and millions of visitors things get out of hand, let us Mods deal with it as best as we can. We were crazy enough to volunteer to do that after all.....

The ATS message is always this -

Debate the post and NOT the poster.

Courtesy is Mandatory

Deny Ignorance.

(and have some fun at the same time!)

Excellent post! I couldn't agree with you more. I flagged you on this one. I subscribe to your philosophy. Nice job!

[edit on 10-6-2008 by lombozo]

Originally posted by neformore

If you are wrong, admit it. Its true that no one likes to be proved wrong, but at the same time there is no shame in it. We're all here to learn. No one is going to think less of you for being wrong.

No truer words have ever been spoken. Even though I agree with the entire post, this part in particular stood out to me.

I love reading positive initiatives like this, nice job neformore. You just became my personal ATS hero and I've been visiting here for a long time.

One addendum I would like to offer to your well thought out philosophy - "Be the change you want to see" is:

If you don't have anything relevant to the conversation or nice to say, stay silent.

Thank you, nefermore!
An excellent reminder to us all!

I would like this site to be changed to "LIES DAMN LIES" that would be cool..

All of us crazy CT freaks would make more sense...

This is a joke post.

Very positive post, and a change of attitude that we should all embrace.

It's easy to take things way too personal. But it's just sribling on a screen, for the most part. I've tried to keep this in mind, instead of allowing myself to be emoyionally drawn in.

Sorry, but a flag is all I could give here on this forum. You deserve more for a post of this quality.

Thanks neformore. Stuff like this should be posted more often to remind us of what makes this place enjoyable.

Id like to take a minute to emphasize the following concept:

Promote Diversity


In other words, having so many people of such radically differing opinions is not a curse, its a blessing. We all sometimes fall into the trap of getting annoyed at adverse opinions and would love for others to agree with our view of the world.

But what would it lead to if I could get everyone to agree with my way of seeing things? It would lead to conformity and ultimately to infinite boredom.

So we do well to welcome opposing views rather than stifle them which would be the height of ignorance and actually help in pre-pave the loss of freedom of speech.

Love All, Serve All could be the motto here. As long as the views expressed are expressed within the limits of respect and civility, they are all welcome.

Great thread, should be required reading for all posters. I fear that the true intent of the site and beauty of so many different viewpoints coming together to talk is becoming obscured by people that would rather attack the poster than the post. I also wish that, when arguing against something, people would hold their beliefs up to the same standard of truth as they hold against something they disagree with.(Hopefully that made sense hehe.) I find myself frequently trying to take a middle of the road position, trying to find common ground, trying to be reasonable, and I find most of points are not responded to. I guess I'm just not inflammatory enough.

Thank you for saying that...

I echo it wholeheartedly. There is far too much whining as of late.

Even if you do have bad taste in dodgy ginger vocalists...

I hope people take it on board buddy...

Peace,

MSP

Be the change you wish to see. ..

That applies to the rest of life too.

Thanks for the positive responses guys

It always amazes me that people would rather complain than do something. I guess its human nature, but ATS is the sum of its parts and everyone has the opportunity to add to the board.

Heres hoping the positivity spreads

reply to post by neformore

Thanks Neformore.
I guess in a roundabout way that is what I was trying to say. It is a brilliant message and we need to get it out. I have noticed a number of threads by disgruntled or perhaps disenchanted people recently and as a 'society' we need to encourage each other.
It has been suggested that this should be required reading. How about a mass U2U with the OP as a message with a link here..

thank you for your eloquence and positive thought, neformore; too often people lose sight of the fact that we are here seeking knowledge and information to not only debate but to stimulate the mind and increase awareness , perhaps even generate spontaneous effort towards research and original thought. great post.

reply to post by neformore



I joined ATS as its membership base began its remarkable growth in numbers that hasn't abated . My experience on the boards indicates that in the first couple of years there was more balance amongst the members and there opinions. Since then the drift has been towards a greater number of members taking a anti US and/or anti establishment stance that is purely driven by emotion or immaturity.

I value differences in opinion but once again drawing on my experience as a long time member I have found that it simply isnt possible to have a rational discussion with those who dismiss every negative about Iran as propaganda but take every negative story about US government policy at face value . The same goes for those who bash the MSM continually but then take anything that Alex Jones has to say at face value and so on .

I should point out that the Sun does sometimes shine thou the clouds . There are members who are capable of putting ideas forward and discussing them in a rational manner . This is reflected by the fact I still post on ATS and somewhat which of the boards I post regularly in . One other thing I do to restore some balance with some of the topics I post but it really is like pushing a cart up hill .

[edit on 12-6-2008 by xpert11]

I agree wholeheartedly with this idea, If you want ATS to be better post your better ideas. Don't wait for others to post their garbage, post your thoughts and your conspiracies. That way you can be the one that helps change this board into what you think it should be.

I guess what neformore is trying to say is Put up or shut up, just in a nice way.

great post's,great thread,personally i think the op post should be read by all new comers,so make it mandatory....i really like the mods on ats by the way,much different from jerk mods on other sites....great job guys

As a relative newcomer to the internet as a whole, and this site in particular, I am constantly amazed at how people treat one another simply because they are "anonymous" -- we are all human and none of us perfect. Common courtesy goes a long way, and it's easy to forget we have feelings. Debate and discussion does not equate to arguing and name-calling.

I was very happy to read your instructions and I agree 100%.

Im putting a link to this thread into my signature line for reference. I agree with this idea 100% Nef, if the members want a better ATS they themselves are responsible for creating a better ATS experience.

Also thought lately this thread could use a lil bump

[edit on 7/13/2008 by whatukno]

neformore is qutie right. Be the change you want to see. Are you tired of "not being heard?" ATS provides you with many different ways to speak, and be heard. It's one thing to whine about it. It's anotehr thing to take action.

reply to post by neformore


Your very right, the fact you took the time to write this mean's something. There is much anger out there, and many people can't recognize this and it reflect's in the way they interact socially. ( I can't spell, I'm a US Marine Vet)
I try my best to treat people kindly, with that above and beyond mentality. I don't know If I was always like this or if I learned it when I started working at 14 yrs.. In McDonald's. Yes, in ideal location's the idea's surronding that franchise and it's training methods quite reminds me of my other job, USMC Infantry Squad Leader.
Anyway enough bragging...lol...
I love being wrong... I want to be proven wrong, there is always a better way..
I want information and I want source's and a polite attitude and mabye a well placed joke.
I am not saying I can deliver on all that but I try to set that standard.

NY note: The tree's looked great while smoking a nice L out on the back porch. In the soft ball field behind my house had a glorius procetion... Kids praticing baseball, a HS flag football game, and a dog traing corse where all types of dog's run through hoops and sh^t... That's what The American dream is all about. Tear...

Peace

[edit on 19-10-2008 by Jb0311NY]

[edit on 19-10-2008 by Jb0311NY]