Sapphire,

I read your links. They do not go with your thread heading. What is your point?

When you have clarified where you are trying to go with this thread, I will be glad to input.

Just links on hell i found as it seems to be a topic many people have been asking lately, im sorry if you dont think the link matches the topic, i can change it if you'd like

Maybe you should. Because when I review the links posted in your originating post, I do not find any commonality between them. I don't necessarily ask that you change anything, but that you post with additional issues you have in order to narrow the scope of the discussion.

The way I see it, with your original post and the links contained within it...the world is a canvas...if you get my drift.

I like the title of this thread makes me larf.


Well i'm gonna quote a line from Slayer(Metal Band)
"There is no heaven without a hell"

some say that hell is the absence of god... i say that it is a state of mind, how you view your life, and how you choose to handle it.

Originally posted by Sapphire
What The Hell Is Hell?!

It's the place where you'll have to go after your human death. Have a nice day.

I realised the moment i chose to place this subject in here i'd be faced with some opposition, i didn't do it to rattle any chains (ok maybe a little bit .. grin) however it really is a good question i think and one that isn't talked about nearly enough on this level. Ok i'll just leave this and let everyone take it from here.

Originally posted by Sapphire
I realised the moment i chose to place this subject in here i'd be faced with some opposition, i didn't do it to rattle any chains (ok maybe a little bit .. grin) however it really is a good question i think and one that isn't talked about nearly enough on this level. Ok i'll just leave this and let everyone take it from here.

You don't have to leave the topic, personally, I thought the threads posted were fairly close to the subject of your post. I don't know what the other gentlemen was looking for, but it all made sense to me. I just try not to get involved in religious debates because they tend to get very messy in a very short time.

I believe Hell does exist, but not exactly the way most people see it. Unrepentant sinners and those who elected not to be saved are, I believe, forced to relive their most horrible moments over and over again, and are also subjected to torture that plays upon their worst fears. For instance, if you hate spiders, you might find yourself covered in them from head to toe while occasionally leaving your new insect-infested existence to relive a time in your life that you *really* wish you could take back.

That's the best way I can put it. Keep in mind, this isn't based off of texts I've read or half-truths fed to me in bible study as a kid, but instead comes from my own perception of hell. A combination of your greatest phobias combined with a constant reliving of your worst deeds and most humiliating moments.

Then again, there is the theory Hell is a lie created by the church to scare people into believing them.

Let's just say I think it's better to be safe then sorry.


[Edited on 5-11-2003 by Kai-Raega]

hrm. it sounds like you think hell just *has* to exist for some reason, like it's a natural law or something. If you're not based on "half-truths fed to me in bible study", what exactly are you based on? all else being equal, i think a worldview devoid of eternal suffering is much nicer...but then again, maybe i shouldn't be reading this topic.

Originally posted by greyarea
hrm. it sounds like you think hell just *has* to exist for some reason, like it's a natural law or something. If you're not based on "half-truths fed to me in bible study", what exactly are you based on? all else being equal, i think a worldview devoid of eternal suffering is much nicer...but then again, maybe i shouldn't be reading this topic.

As I said in my previous post, "It's better to be safe then sorry"

After life could be experiencing your death over and over again in eternity, that would suck. Only speculations, and I wont go further, hehe... I wont cast myself into another endless discussion about religion.

Originally posted by AntiSystem
After life could be experiencing your death over and over again in eternity, that would suck. Only speculations, and I wont go further, hehe... I wont cast myself into another endless discussion about religion.

Me either friend, me either. Religious debates are *never*, and I mean never a good thing. We each believe something different, and none of us, including me, know anything for sure.

This is one thread I'm going to be ignoring.

[Edited on 5-11-2003 by Kai-Raega]

According to st. Faustine hell is state where souls are tortured in extreme temperatures, plus absence of God and organ with which they sinned is being tortured, plus torture of company of demons and satan.

[Edited on 5-11-2003 by Megaquad]

I'll post again later but i'd like to say a couple of things about what i personally have noticed.

1. how can a loving God throw most of his creation into an endless hell (no mercy) thus erasing the idea of an eternally merciful God.

2. the gospel nowadays tends to be more like this: you can get saved and go to heaven 'IF'... Jesus loves you 'IF' ... God won't condemn you 'IF' ... there appears to be 'Conditions here to God's love for his Beloved Creation now thus, again, removing the idea that Gods Love is Unconditional.

3. in Old Testament times, the priests would sacrifice bulls and goats for the sins of 'all' the people whether or not they asked for it, it was simply just done that way. They were then 'freed from sin' for one full year and as it says in the KJV, their 'Conscience's were also cleared for the same amount of time. Thus, this takes us to another question ... Wasn't Jesus' Blood more Powerful than that of Bulls and Goats' ? Or did he somehow fail? You see, It says that Jesus came to Earth to do the WILL of the FATHER in heaven, so either he did the Will of God or He Failed to do the Will of God. And what was the Will of the Father?

It was to Restore Unto God ALL THAT WAS LOST. Not some or half or a handful but ALL. As Jesus said, If I be lifted up from the earth, i will draw 'All Men' unto me.

ok i'll continue this later on when i've had some caffeine

We each believe something different, and none of us, including me, know anything for sure.

Yeah, thats what I believe also.

Originally posted by Sapphire
I'll post again later but i'd like to say a couple of things about what i personally have noticed.

1. how can a loving God throw most of his creation into an endless hell (no mercy) thus erasing the idea of an eternally merciful God.

2. the gospel nowadays tends to be more like this: you can get saved and go to heaven 'IF'... Jesus loves you 'IF' ... God won't condemn you 'IF' ... there appears to be 'Conditions here to God's love for his Beloved Creation now thus, again, removing the idea that Gods Love is Unconditional.

3. in Old Testament times, the priests would sacrifice bulls and goats for the sins of 'all' the people whether or not they asked for it, it was simply just done that way. They were then 'freed from sin' for one full year and as it says in the KJV, their 'Conscience's were also cleared for the same amount of time. Thus, this takes us to another question ... Wasn't Jesus' Blood more Powerful than that of Bulls and Goats' ? Or did he somehow fail? You see, It says that Jesus came to Earth to do the WILL of the FATHER in heaven, so either he did the Will of God or He Failed to do the Will of God. And what was the Will of the Father?

It was to Restore Unto God ALL THAT WAS LOST. Not some or half or a handful but ALL. As Jesus said, If I be lifted up from the earth, i will draw 'All Men' unto me.

ok i'll continue this later on when i've had some caffeine

1. How can one creation insult God who gaved him life, and then get eternal joy for return? It would be unfair to God and other God's creations who have been hurt.
Therefore - if God wouldn't punish them he would be unfair.

If you *ask* for mercy and *repent*, God will save you even if you have sins as Hitler.
"Ask and you shall receive"

2. Never heard of that 'IF' you are talking about

3. Nobody could go to heaven before Jesus, and now you don't have to kill bulls...

Jesus said when he comes he will put Good ones on his right and Evil ones on his left on judgement.
Evil ones shall be tormented forever..
I don't think this about salvation is that much complicated.. its all in the bible.


[Edited on 5-11-2003 by Megaquad]

Links aside............
There is no Hell .it was a primative attempt to draw a
conclusion based upon the concept of Good & Evil
which is a subjective reality.....The Truth is there is No Good or Evil its All just Experience .....When you take into account the true nature of the "Soul".....
That is "Eternal Conciousness"

I would like to begin with the Fight between good (God) and evil (the Devil). First of all we have to say that the Devil (Lucifer which means ‘Bringer of the light’) was the best angel of God, which turned against him. Then we also have to say Lucifer got 1/3th. of the Angels behind him. You know all this, but have you ever thought about the fact how much 1/3th is?

1/3th of the angels of God turned against him, and they knew they would face certain death (it’s logical they knew they would die if they had 2/3 against them). Why should they fight against God (the so-called goodness) if they know they were going to die?

Or has there something happened what they couldn’ aprove, not because they were evil… but because they had a heart and a soul… and they knew what the God was going to do…

The God has killed the whole Egyptian army, letting it drown, together with all the horses, he let all the first born children be born death… all those innocent children… he destroyed cities, he appointed Mozes the murderer as leader… he let the Israelites rob the Egyptians…he was the one which killed 1/3th. of his angels, because they didn’t obey him any more.

Why turned the angels and Lucifer against God? Perhaps because Lucifer knew God wasn’t as good as menkind would like it to be, who is the one which makes the Apocalyps happen again?

I know that you perhaps don’t like to hear this kind of information… but you have been born with brains, and you know the above could be true…. Lets look at the Egyptians now…

Many believe Isis was the reincarnation of Mary (mother of Jezus) so Re would be God, and Horus would be Jezus, and he would fight Seth (Lucifer?). The fight between good and evil lasted for many days… and guess what… there began a Godswar… not because the Gods liked fighten so much… but because some where for Seth and some where for Horus. Lucifer was getting a lot of support as far as I can see, and that’s not because he was such a bad person, but he perhaps knew God was…

Are we going to look further… we see that the God of Mozes made the plages, and the Egyptians got support from their Gods. Huh? Ever thought about it? Mozes God came, and the Prayed for another God…. Which in turn also helped them… but they lost (Lucifer?). That fight lasted also for days… and I think that was the fight between Lucifer and God… Lucifer (who tried to save the Egyptians lost) and then it is also obvious… God felt like drowning the whole Egyptian army.

The pyramid of Chefren is for instance also 66,6 Pyramid feed high… coincidence? Or is it perhaps a fact that Lucifer was the only one who was trying to save the Egyptians… the only one who knew that the God of the Apocalyps wasn’t that friendly…

Here you also notice the 2 different Gods. Do you now understand why you see the Egyptians as the very Pagan ones? Because the Pagan was the only one who tried to help the Egyptians… the God of Mozes (Bible---Sirius) only wanted them death. And why? Egyptians where also fascinated by Sirius (the God from Sirius) but they also have got shafts to Orion… the second God? You say it doesn’t fit in the one God idea, where does the idea of one God comes from? Elohim means Gods, and the first rule is: You should not honour any other Gods… why should God set that rule at number one if there wouldn’t be any other Gods?

I hope I have been able to give you some light on my thoughts about it, and perhaps it is useful for you to make another idea about the Gods… but then again… it’s just my opinion.

I hope you don’t think it to much to read, because I tried to keep it simple.

* They are Pagan, because Lucifer was the only one which helped them against death.
* There could perhaps be multiple Gods… and we haven’t been very lucky with the winner…

Isn't hell just the place of death, the place where Lucifer went, when he was defeated? When he burned... while God is the wrong one... and Lucifer just tried to save the Egyptians...

Where stays the idea of God being so good?