A Growing Healthy Economy

Though each of us can relate horror stories about knowing someone, or being out of work ourselves, even tales of poverty and desperation. The facts do not lie and they are getting better everyday. The economy is still healthier then it has been in decades, unemployment lower than in those same decades and job creation high.



The health of our economy can perhaps be best expressed by relating the growth in comparison to the meteoric rise in gas prices. At a time when so many are vehemently opposing the current administration, that very same administration continues to promote programs that have given rise to one of the healthiest economies in decades.

Those that oppose any actions taken by the administration, are also vehemently against the very same tax cuts that have created jobs, increased revenue and been instrumental in promoting this healthy economy. The loudest arguments have indicated the cuts are for the rich, yet the unemployment rate directly contests that supposition.

Related News Links:
www.whitehouse.gov
www.washingtonpost.com
www.heritage.org

Related AboveTopSecret.com Discussion Threads:
politics.abovetopsecret.com...
politics.abovetopsecret.com...

[edit on 19/8/2006 by Mirthful Me]

Not for the average, hardworking American taxpayer.

Bush declared the economy solid and strong because of tax cuts his administration pushed through Congress. He rattled off a series of economic indicators, including the nation's 4.8 percent jobless rate in July and 4 percent annual economic growth rate through the first half of the year.

But House Minority Leader Nancy Pelosi took issue with Bush's upbeat comments on the economy, saying, "President Bush may think the economy is moving forward, but many hard working Americans are stuck living paycheck to paycheck.

"Under President Bush and the Republican Congress, the economic situation for too many Americans is going in the wrong direction," said the California Democrat. Since Bush took office, she said, "real median family income has dropped by $1,700 while families are paying $3,200 more in household costs."

link

President Bush is either oblivious to, or is purposely avoiding the real truth of the matter for the other 63% of Americans who don't approve of the way he is handling the economy.

only 37 percent of Americans support Bush's handling of the economy, according to AP-Ipsos polling in early August.

Bush did not mention that the July unemployment rate had inched up from 4.6 percent in June, reflecting a slowdown in job creation that reflects weaker economic growth. And while the gross domestic product expanded at an annual rate of 5.6 percent in the first quarter, it slowed to just 2.5 percent in the April-June quarter.

[same link]

Where, exactly is that growing healthy economy? I sure would like to see the real thing.

One word: smokescreen.

The numbers don't paint an accurate picture. We're still bleeding out jobs, in fact, long-term unemployment has NEVER been higher. More unemployed people fall off the edge of their benefits every day, and they just don't get counted.

Think about that for a second...

The unemployment number has remained fairly steady, but every month thousands of people see their benefits expire, so the actual number of people without work is through the roof, and nobody seems to care. Part of the problem is accurately measuring the figures, and I'm sympathetic to that argument, but that's no excuse for the shameless way the media and the government avoid the issue and continue to tell us all is well.

What about all the people who are not eligible? What about the people who, for one reason or another, choose not to apply, but still have no job? What about those who hold higher education degrees, but can't find a job - there are more of those than ever before. What about the millions upon millions of people stuck working 2 minimum-wage jobs, who are still critically short every month? You'd need three jobs at the federal minimum to just scrape by, and there are only 24 hours in the day...

The unemployment numbers are, at best, a measure of the degree to which the government's bottom line is dragged down by the huddled masses.

You can make suppositions and conjectures all that you want to.

You can link the liberal rags all over the place.

The problem is that Bush hatred does not explain away the healthy economy, great job growth and the spread of success overall.

As stated before, you can point out individual cases of desperation and poverty, looking at the entire economy finds no merit in your arguments at all.

Every time anyone on here gives actual numbers that have been verified, the "negativites" emerge with their crys of "Smoke Screen" or "Bogus" information. Weak at best and not very effective in a forum full of people famous for doing their own research. But if that is all you have.

I guess what you need is another dose of Carter, or Clinton with double digit inflation, the highest unemployment rates in history and taxation out of control. If that is what you want, maybe you will get it in 08.

www.papillonsartpalace.com...

While such claims may be true, it is a fact that the Clinton administration revamped the missions of the FBI and CIA following the fall of the Soviet Union, directing large segments of our national intelligence apparatus toward conducting commercial espionage.

In short, President Clinton assigned the CIA, NSA and FBI to help U.S. corporations win foreign contracts. Clinton diverted our intelligence and law enforcement agencies to "commercial" espionage when he classified some economic programs to be of national security. www.papillonsartpalace.com...

Semper

The problem is that Bush hatred does not explain away the healthy economy, great job growth and the spread of success overall.

You think this is about Bush hatred? There are certainly those who focus on the lightning rod, but they do so at their own peril. The real issue is the fact that our 'healthy' economy is a deception engineered to allow more looting to take place - IMO. The 'great job growth' you speak of would be a thing to celebrate, if the jobs being created were not, for the most part, confined to the service industry and prisons.

So what if ten thousand retail jobs are created, or ten million fast food jobs, or ten billion lawncare jobs? They don't pay the bills, you can't support yourself, nevermind a family!

The bright spot, in my mind, is the creation of highly-technical jobs supporting automated manufacturing, and that's something to be happy about. What's that? There's no people to fill those jobs because most people are unskilled? Dang...

As stated before, you can point out individual cases of desperation and poverty, looking at the entire economy finds no merit in your arguments at all.

Arguably, the economy is at its pinnacle when the most people are suffering under high prices and low wages. So..how does that benefit the people of this country?

Every time anyone on here gives actual numbers that have been verified, the "negativites" emerge with their crys of "Smoke Screen" or "Bogus" information.

You're missing the point completely. My argument is that the 'actual numbers' that you're so fond of are painting a very incomplete and misleading picture. Believe what you want, but if you took the time to investigate the claims I've made, you would see they're accurate.

*Long-term unemployment at the highest levels ever. FACT.
*More educated and skilled unemployed than ever before. FACT.
*Minimum wage insufficient to meet the cost of living. FACT.
*Healthcare costs through the roof, far outpacing inflation and wage increases. FACT.
*Food prices outpacing inflation, routinely by double digits. FACT.
*Real-estate prices grossly inflated. (maybe this more opinion...)
*More part-time positions without benefits, compared to full-time with benefits. FACT.

That's a short list, I think.

The economy looks great on paper, when the government funnels billions into the pockets of defense contractors, who buy chips and boards and components from overseas manufacturers, and resell them at a steep mark-up - as long as money is moving, from the taxpayers to the government, and from the government to the privately owned companies that parasitize it. Does that actually help anyone in the thousands of towns and cities across America that are still reeling from outsourcing and automation? Nope.

Real people now have to choose between food and medicine. And the elderly..I pity the elderly in this country. The veterans too. But hey, tell them the economy is doing great, and that might keep them warm over the winter. Do you have the faintest clue how many homeless veterans we have in this country? How many homeless children, thrown out by their parents and ignored/abandoned/abused by the State?

Yeah, the economy is doing great. It's the people that are screwed.

*Long-term unemployment at the highest levels ever. FACT.
*More educated and skilled unemployed than ever before. FACT.
*Minimum wage insufficient to meet the cost of living. FACT.
*Healthcare costs through the roof, far outpacing inflation and wage increases. FACT.
*Food prices outpacing inflation, routinely by double digits. FACT.
*Real-estate prices grossly inflated. (maybe this more opinion...)
*More part-time positions without benefits, compared to full-time with benefits. FACT.

Again, the smoke screen.

Long Term unemployment : Get a JOB! Last time I checked, there were want adds in all newpapers. Send them here Consumer Prices Rise on Food and Energy Costs

Also if you have done the research, you are aware of the social and psychological circumstances that directly effect long term unemployment and the reasons it is not can not be used to evaluate overall unemployment.

If they are educated and skilled that does not mean they want to work enough to take a job.
Health care is the greatest single democrat scare tactic besides the Social Security issue. Scare the old people and get the votes. Health care is NOT a Government responsibility. Take some responsibility for yourselves and quit relying on the Government to hand you tissues for your tears.

Minimum wage is controlled by the business sector and anyone with a smattering of economics understand that if you raise the minimum wage, you increase unemployment and increase prices over all. No Brainer.

Food Prices? Wrong!!

Consumer prices were up 0.7 percent in January, after dropping by 0.1 percent in December and falling 0.7 percent in November, the Labor Department reported. Excluding food and energy, the so-called core index was up 0.2 percent last month, after a 0.1 percent increase in December and 0.2 percent rise in November.

Advice for the long-term unemployed

Real Estate was an opinion and no base in factual evidence.

Other than that, I'm not sure what to say. Your wrong on most counts if not all and again there is no evidence to refute the NUMBERS. They speak for themselves.

A Healthy Job Market, Healthy Economy, Period.

Semper

Mod Edit: Fixed long links.

[edit on 19-8-2006 by TheBandit795]

What I don't need is another warmongering, cut taxes for the rich, spend the country into bankruptcy/recession, in the pocket of global corporate conglomerates administration like this one, Reagan/Bush1, and Nixon/Ford, that ends up handing the next administration a ball of # ready to hit the fan while the decent, hard working, taxpaying, two-jobbing, overtiming, average American foots the bill and takes it in the rear again!

Another well thought out, intellectual post.

I particularly enjoy posters that provide evidence, links or any from of proof.


Oh well.

It's too be expected.

Semper

There is no truth to American economic growth 'theory' as the national debt is increasing faster than the GDP growth; it's just a big federal subsidy of industry....

American workers are worse off than ever before ( the downward spiral that started in the late 70's) and it's getting worse year by year as permanent jobs goes overseas.

This is not 'news' as much as it's a complete fabrication spun from whole cloth and i hope it does not see the light of day.

Stellar

Semper
I dont have alot of time at the moment but I ran across some figures that may help illustrate the kind of jobs gained/lossed.. and the respective wages.
Fi gures .PDF

Figure 3
TOP 10 JOBS LOST (2001Q1 to 2003Q4)
Employment Sector Total Job Losses Wage Per Job
Durable Manufacturing -144,289 $56,511.79
Administration & Support Services -36,043 $30,940.81
Non-durable Manufacturing -29,044 $45,753.03
Retail Trade -28,316 $23,326.85
Professional, Scientific & Tech. -24,730 $64,759.52
Accommodation & Food -18,594 $12,596.83
Construction -11,160 $43,804.69
Wholesale Trade -10,586 $54,738.89
Transportation & Warehousing -7,102 $42,388.41
Real Estate, Rental & Leasing -4,081 $33,136.01

Compared to the wages of the jobs lost in 2001-2003, wages of those employment
sectors forecast to add jobs is somewhat lower. The top 10 sectors expected to add
over 150,000 jobs through 2006. These new jobs will have an average annual wage
of $39,400, considerably lower than the average wage of those jobs lost by the top
10 sectors to lose jobs between 2001 and 2003.

Figure 4
TOP 10 JOBS GAINED (2004Q1o 2006Q4)
Employment Sector Total Job Gains Wage Per Job
Professional, Scientific & Tech. 27,900 $64,759.52
Health Care & Social Assistance. 22,560 $38,484.63
Administration & Support Services 21,919 $30,940.81
Accommodation & Food 16,632 $12,596.83
Wholesale Trade 13,850 $54,738.89
Transportation & Warehousing 13,000 $42,388.41
Construction 11,219 $43,804.69
Retail Trade 11,000 $23,326.85
Other Services 6,700 $24,648.59
Arts, Entertainment & Recreation 5,342 $24,832.81

Professional, Scientific, and Technical Services, paying just under $65,200 annually,
lost almost 25,000 jobs from the beginning of 2001 through end of 2003. This sector
is expected to gain more jobs through 2006 than it previously lost. The Professional,
Scientific, and Technical sector is part of the professional and business services
NAICS super-sector, encompassing accounting, architectural, computer systems
design, management consulting, scientific research and development and
advertising. The Ann Arbor, Saginaw, and Kalamazoo, high tech sectors will
contribute significantly to this growth, particularly in the dynamic life sciences fields.
Employment growth in Administration and Support services is expected to far
outreach total U.S. employment growth over the next two years. Job gains are
expected to tally more than 21,000 jobs through 2006 and average wages in
Administration and Support services are $30,900 annually per job. Another big job
gainer with relatively low wages is the Accommodation and Food Services sector.
Wages in this sector, however, are the lowest of the top 10 employment gainers,
with an average wage of slightly under $13,000 annually per job. Retail trade,
$23,000 per job, also accounts for a significant fraction of the gains.
The downturn was remarkably broad-based by historical standards, with similar
declines across the US. The jobs recovery will also be broad-based, though the
Southern states of Florida and Georgia, and the Mountain states of Nevada and
Arizona will lead the nation. The industrial Midwestern states, which have lost
manufacturing jobs since 2000, will see the smallest gains. While 40 of 50 states will
regain their pre-recession peak levels of employment by the end of 2005, Michigan

Overall the amount of money people are making in these "new jobs" is lower than the ones they were at previously. But I havnt had the chance to really go over this document fully. Tell me what you can make of this Semper, thanks TONE23

I'll have to digest this tonight, but thanks for the info!!

I pulled the conclusion up from the final page and here it is.

This report has highlighted the National wage gap of 18% and the Michigan wage
gap of over 15% between jobs lost and jobs gained in this business cycle. In the
coming years, global competition will continue to exert wage pressures on American
workers. While the economy is expected to continue growth, it will continue to
transition away from the older manufacturing economy to one of a new, new
economy. Intangibles will become of greater and greater importance in the
composition of our output of goods and services. In this century, therefore, the
education and training of the workforce in efforts to secure jobs and compete
globally becomes of paramount importance. Increasing skill levels will lead directly to
higher productivity and thence to higher wages.
The foundation of US economic growth is the ability of its metro area economies to
generate an environment in which business and labor can productively provide
services and goods to the nation and the world. Investment in training, education,
and infrastructure will better enable us to increase productivity, wage levels, and
long term growth, as well as provide jobs during this significant transition.

It seems as predicted we are currently in the midst of a major transition from the Industrialized nation of the past, to the Technological nation of the future. If this is in fact the controlling factor in the numbers I previously stated and Tones information, then this does not bode well for those resistant or incapable of change.

If we are to survive in regards to our economy, there must be a significant alteration in the education, training and even mind set of our potential work force. Trade schools so popular in the past, educating our populace to factory and labor jobs, are no longer viable due to the world economic situation and labor costs over seas.

Our economic endurance is now directly bound to our technological aptitude and therefor to our ability to modify our educational practices to suit the future economic forecast.

However, let me read the entire piece Tone, and I'll get back on this.

Semper

semperfortis


You can no lose do you, when all your links are link to the governemnt, I guess you will always be right.

Anybody else just hate bush and America.

No Marg.

I hate no one, especially for the simple fact that their policy or opinions may differ from mine.

I refuse to insert myself into that very deep and dark place in which I can not understand that which I do not know.

Semper

After thinking about it semper, wyrdeone does have a point. Its not about the quanity of jobs, but the quality of jobs (when it comes to the people at least). How many people do you know support a family by working at burger king? Thats employment, but not healthy at all. How come.

Well bush is all for getting rid of welfare type programs (obviously being republican). Combine this with the "new jobs" and what you have is a bunch of people who have jobs but have to work like slaves to get by. You know what that is called? Perfect...well for business at least. To have a bunch of people with burger king jobs, no welfare and such, is by far two things a business like that loves to hear. You have a bunch of people that become solely dependent on that business. That means they control you.

Honestly to everything positive, there is the good possiblity of negative aspects. The quality of the jobs in this case is one of those aspects. To have a bunch of peoples working at 7.50 an hour means little, especially if your cutting all the programs that supported them.
(also the educated and skilled workers being unemployed is true- my dad is talking about it all the time. Did you know 22,000 kids graduated reutgers college in new jersey alone this year? that 22,000 kids with 4 year degrees who think they are going to get a skilled job because they have a degree. You know what the problem is. Education Standards. A 4 year degree simply doesn't mean much anymore because so many people have them. What we need to do is raise the standard, its the only way to make it worth something again. These kids are coming out with 4 year degrees and end up working these dead end jobs because their degree is worthless now. Its like money inflation through the roof. Its worthless because their is so much of it that doesn't have as much value as it use to.)

Semper you know whats sad and why we are going to lose so many jobs? You are right, we are making a transition into the new age. What the problem is, is education. Our nation is going further and further down on the charts of education. So many kids simply aren't smart enough to stay in college for the length of time needed. They can't survive it either. We are at a point where we have a choice. We can either boost our education system up to a level which the kids may not be able to perform at, or we can continue this path and watch as many kids don't have the skills to perform at a high enough level, there for are educated, but not enough to have a paying job. Then you have the highschool grad and the college grad working at the same place, for the same wages, because there are so many kids with these degrees.

I dont feel like Im thinking clear today, so If I say something that isnt making sense, you know why. (long day of work)

grimreaper797

I agree with you, I remember we covered something about this same issue a while back and one thing that is kept hidden is the fact that the jobs grow is the areas that people can not possibly use to feed a family with one income.

Taken also in consideration that the biggest job creator in America right now for middle income families is Wal-mart.

It was a time when the middle class in America was the backbone of the nation most of the jobs that use to support and maintain a household with one working parent are gone for ever.

Now the market is full of low pay jobs that are considered a job nerveless when it comes to overall look at job grow but a family can no survive with it.

That kind of statistics will make anything look good in paper.

OK Grim, we have exposed the problem.

Now do we formulate the solution?

Put more money into government programs to support more and more citizens that can not/will not ever be productive in society?

I understand long days my friend. I'm in no hurry, I'll wait until your refreshed and we can debate this.

Semper

The solution is to invest in the people of this nation, not in bombing the people of other nations that happen to have different political and religious ideologies from us. You don't need a link or a bunch of fancy degrees to figure that out.

Oh, but you call that hand-outs to degenerates.

Yet, Investing in the people is a VERY broad statement. It will elicit many and varied images depending on the individual and their current opinion of the economy.

I am not disagreeing with you, only stating that IMO, that is not a solution in it's present form.

Semper

I don't disagree with President Bush's jobs program, I just want to see the same effort and resources put into it that he is currently putting into the WOT.

I completely agree that the US is shifting from an industrial society to a technological society, and we are going to miss the boat and fall flat if we don't find a way to transfer and redevelop the skills of our workforce. American ingenuity has always led the way, it needs to be applied to this transition now.