BASIC CHRISTIAN DOCTRINE - BECOME INFORMED

This topic posting is most likely a �lost case� as most people will not read it but read on
and perhaps there might be someone who will spend a little time to become more
informed.

The term is �deny ignorance�. Yet when I have read many posts in the forum I have
reached the conclusion that in many cases this is just a term and means to many who post
here. Indeed there have been many posts made here in which the poster has shown that
they do not even have a single clue about the basic tenets of Christianity. The posts are
made and the poster shows total ignorance (and I mean total) of the basic beliefs of
Christianity; however, that poster then assumes the position as being knowledgeable about
the subject of Christianity. If you indicate to them that they are basically clueless about
Christian doctrine, you are totally ignored. It seems that the individual rather remain
ignorant and clueless about Christian beliefs and then make ranting posts about what
Christians believe.

To me this is totally inexcusable in this day and age. The internet makes its easy to
become informed on may subjects especially ones of general interest. I grew up before
there was an internet and to study a subject you had to get up off your buns and go to the
library. You were dependent on the material that the library had on hand and small town
libraries had limited resources. It was real work to become informed. Today it is different,
the internet makes it easy to become informed on many subjects and Google makes it easy
to find those sites that apply. You want to know what Buddhists believe? Well Google
will get you there and you can find web sites operated by practicing Buddhists. The same
applies to Hinduism, Zoroastrianism, etc. To give you an idea, some time ago yours truly
made a post dealing with a subject of prophecy (70 Weeks of Daniel), that post was the
results of the study of approximately 60 different web pages dealing with the subject.
That is what the internet makes possible. In my studies of Hinduism, Buddhism, and
Zoroastrianism, I have downloaded and am studying approximately 30 Megs of material
on each subject. This does not include material dealing with other subjects (Mithra,
Horus, Christian prophecy, etc.). No you do not become informed by reading a single
web page; however, the resources are available and you do not even need to get up off
your fanny to get to them. Use this tool (the internet) to become informed about the
subjects you are talking about.

Now onto my main subject. Here are some links for those who wish to become informed
with basic Christian doctrine. Many of you who have posted on this forum as if you know
all about Christianity already are in reality totally ignorant of the basic tenets. Indeed if
you were informed about Christian beliefs, then you would know what the Doctrine of
Grace meant and would not have to be told. Now onto to the links (Warning to Christians
who are reading this. This is a Calvinist site.)

A Statement of Faith (basic beliefs summed up in one page):
www.carm.org...
Well I told you it was a Calvinist site.

This page will link you into specific doctrinal issues:
www.carm.org...

A neat bulleted summary page of basic Christian doctrine and easy to read:
www.carm.org...


The essentials of Christian doctrine (a must believe for Christians)
www.carm.org...

Introduction to the concept of the Trinity:
www.carm.org...

The atonement of Jesus Christ (why, what does it mean?)
www.carm.org...

The pages listed above will give you some understanding as to what Christians believe.
Most likely they will go unread and people on this forum will continue to make ranting
posts about those �nasty� Christians and what they believe. To the Christians who may
have read the links, well it is a Calvinist site. But it does differentiate between essential
Christian doctrine and Calvinist doctrine. Christians are therefore invited to post links to
web pages which cover the essentials of doctrine essentials of their particular tenet (such
as (amillialism vs premillennialism).

This is really a �last ditch� effort on my part to get those people who make postings on
this Forum Board about what those �nasty� Christians believe to become informed about
the subject because they are in truth very ignorant of basic Christian beliefs. Indeed most
of the people who have made postings here critical of the Christian faith have shown that
they have no concept of basic Christian doctrines and essentially do not know what they
are talking about. So therefore read and become informed.

As for me, the time grows short, and I grow weary of the game.

Briliant post, jagdflieger

Though I am familiar with the basics of Christian Faith, some of the concepts are not so easy to understand and, I have to admit, there are a lot of things I don't know about it. Thank you for reminding me that we are here to learn

It's going to take a while to go through all links, but its worth it.

Nice post, but I don't think anybody can be 100% as to Christian doctrine. It has changed so many times down through the years... such as the introduction to the trinity and hellfire.

And how can you be sure that the doctrines you pointed out as so correct are in fact correct? There is no point discussing it - ditch it.

Why ditch something like this, especially after makeing a comment.

I take it "Hamas" you are familar with the Qur'an, that is susposedly "unchanged", and the best preserved record of the faith of Abraham. Someone who likens to have a SN as yours, should be openminded enough to want to continue this thread.

No I think that the Quran is just as unreliable as the Bible. As a religious textbook, it is a lot more clearer than the Bible, but then that is no indication of truth..

Every civilization has brought about some kind of religious textbook in some way or another. They were designed to please the people at that time... but times have moved on. Science will continue to prove the bible incorrect. We are not cavemen any more... we dont have to make the big excuse that God exists just because we cant explain our being. Thousands of years ago, this is what they did. But today, we have the oppertunity to break from from religious fiction.

I have read both the Bible and the Quran, and after being a believer I no longer hold those beliefs.

So, you have taken to science as your new religion?

Or have you become a non-believer? People, most poeple need faith in something, anything. Today we sure as hell cannot have faith in each other.

Yep, science is my new religion.... and i'm a non believer.

Science makes advances - faith in religious textbooks does not.

I see you fail to see the message though. Science may prove truths, but what truths? Logical ones, there are a few things science "cannot" solve, or as you will argue, not yet, right?

What science does not do however, is give guidence to morals, and guidence during times of trouble. Science isn't going to give one advice about love, or being a good person. Many religions at least try to do so, the non-false ones at least.

The bible today, may not and should not be taken literally, but for what it can teach. It can offer guidence to those who have no one to guide them. Science will never do that. As science only pertains to the study of ones enviornment. Religion has it's purpose, whether one sees that purpose, depends on the individual.

Science cannot teach people that inside them, they know the difference of right and wrong. Science will teach you how your physical body functions, it doesn't cover our spiritual side, our inner selves.

Perhaps it is too late for you to see this....perhaps not.

[Edited on 1-11-2003 by ADVISOR]

Religion is Evil
I believe in a supreme conciousness and were all part of it


A Great Sage once wrote

We were talking - about the space between us all
And the people - who hide themselves behind a wall of illusion
Never glimpse the truth - then it�s far too late - when they pass away.
We were talking - about the love we could all share - when we find it
To try our best to hold it there - with our love
With our love - we could save the world - if they only knew.
Try to realize it�s all within yourself
No-one else can make you change
And to see you�re really only very small,
And life flows on within you and without you.
We were talking - about the love that�s gone so cold and the people,
Who gain the world and lose their soul -
They don�t know - they can�t see - are you one of them?
When you�ve seen beyond yourself -
Then you may find peace of mind, is waiting there -
And the time will come when you see we�re all one,
And life flows on within you and without you.

Originally posted by ADVISOR
(...) Science will teach you how your physical body functions, it doesn't cover our spiritual side, our inner selves. (...)

What is this �physical body�? It is definition taken from good old doctrine splitting factiously world between physical and spiritual parts. Everything has �soul� � even stone. Modern physics is in absolute contradiction with old Judeo-Christian doctrine of dead and alive world. It is just a matter of level of organization of energy.

Originally posted by Kronos
What is this �physical body�?

It would be the thing you are useing to interact with and manipulate the other physical things around you...PC for example.

[Edited on 1-11-2003 by ADVISOR]

Take good microscope and look on your finger, deeper and deeper. You will no longer see anything physical. Just forces, energy, spins organized in the visible form of your entity.
And the whole structure of forces interacts with the keyboard.
In short from the modern science point of view you are only soul or matter (�physical body�) � what you prefer. If this structure does no longer operate properly � you are dying or supreme force inside of you changing or loosing actual form.
Anyway something like soulless physical body does not exist. As matter is a form of organized energy � this dynamic organization scheme you may name soul.

Originally posted by jagdflieger
This topic posting is most likely a �lost case� as most people will not read it but read on
and perhaps there might be someone who will spend a little time to become more
informed. (...)

Ultimatively great post jagdflieger!!!

(...)Man is fallen, corrupt, and wicked. Man believes in God by grace through faith, is unable to come close to God through his own efforts, nor can he win salvation by his attempt at good works, nor once saved does he maintain his salvation by his works, nor can he understand the spiritual things of God on his own. Eternal punishment in hell and separation from the blessed presence of God are the consequences of the unregenerate person's sinfulness.(...)

i'm a christian, but my question is why is sunday the sabbath, shouldn't it be saturday. in an italian bible when jesus sabbath he says sabbaso(excuse my spelling my italian needs some brushing up), sabbaso in italian also means saturday, so therefore shouldn't saturday be the day and not sunday

Quote from Hamas
Nice post, but I don't think anybody can be 100% as to Christian doctrine. It has changed so many times down through the years... such as the introduction to the trinity and hellfire.

On the main page of the doctrine menu:

www.carm.org...

There are many indvidual subjects which were not called out in the original post (there are some 20 articles linked on the pabe above). However certain specific questions were answered for those who cared to look. The page:

www.carm.org...

has early quotes indicating that the "Trinity" concept was taught by the early Christian Chruch (Polycarp, Justin Martyr, etc.). Indeed the word "Trinity" was not coined until much later on, but the idea was taught from the start. The same is true for "Hell". The concept was there from Day 1, but the name may have changed over a period of time. It is just like World War I. The name "Word War I" was not coined until near the end of "Word War II", before that it was the "Great War". Just because the name changed, it still happened. Just because the word "Trinity" was not used until much later on, the concept was a standard Christian belief and was taught from Day 1.

Quote from Hamas
And how can you be sure that the doctrines you pointed out as so correct are in fact correct? There is no point discussing it - ditch it.

Well I am sorry I have offended you. The reason those doctrines are correct is that each one is supported by quotes and references from the Bible where the text has a clear purport of what is being meant. The charge of "many translations" does not really constitute a valid criticism since each new translation is based on the same original texts. If you like I could post links which show the textual reliability of current translations of the Bible. Also those doctrines are correct because those are the ones that are taught. It is a statment of belief based on the Bible. Indeed Hamas I am sorry that my beliefs cause you any offense.

Quote from f16falcon
i'm a christian, but my question is why is sunday the sabbath, shouldn't it be saturday. in an italian

You may be right. I always considered this a non-issue. The important thing is that there is a day of worship. The fellowship I to which I once belonged considered Wednesday as an important day (mid-week meeting). I would need to do some research to determine why and when the day of Sunday was chosen by the Church (as it has been a non-issue to me). Indeed the Jews and some Christian denominations (Seventh Day Adventist) do use Saturday as their day of worship. However if you study the Epistles of Paul closely you will see that Paul seems not to really care about what day of the week you worship. The important thing is that you pick a day and worship (goto church).

you didnt offend me in any way my friend.

Each man believes what he chooses.