The WMD Cult

I have often wondered whether the faithful that cling dogmatically to the belief that WMDs will be found in Iraq, are cult-like.

So does our buddy here:

www.antiwar.com...


THE WMD CULT
Belief in Iraq's 'weapons of mass destruction' is a matter of faith � but even the true believers are having doubts
by Justin Raimondo

You know George W. Bush is in big trouble when even George Will, who backed the Iraq war and has toed the neocon line pretty faithfully, sharply questions the rationale for war. The complete absence of any evidence that Saddam Hussein's regime possessed weapons of mass destruction presents the administration with a major problem:

"The doctrine of preemption � the core of the president's foreign policy � is in jeopardy. To govern is to choose, almost always on the basis of very imperfect information. But preemption presupposes the ability to know things � to know about threats with a degree of certainty not requisite for decisions less momentous than those for waging war."

I had an argument about this last night in a pub. People seem to be clinging to this myth like a limpet clings to a rock.

THey havent found them, they wont find them, because they dont exist. If they did, they would have found them by now. ( god I hope they dont, I promised this guy a date if they did)

This flies in the face of the facts... The Kay report has indicated absolutely that there were "dual use" facilities, that were shut down during the THREE MONTHS we gave Hussein to "clean up", that could easily be returned to WMD production in a matter of days had we not got them.

Additionally there is irrefutable PROOF that at least one scientist was EXECUTED for cooperating with the UN Inspectors.

Now I ask, why execute a scientist if you are NOT desirous of making SURE things (WMD plants) are covered up?!

Additionally, given THREE MONTHS to clean house, KNOWING the hammer was about to fall, AND thinking you could dissuade the American Public's stomach for war and thereby survive relatively unscathed, who COULDN'T clean up?

All this bullroar about no WMDs in an OBVIOUS state is meaningless when taken in the proper context.

That's like walking into a Phillip Morris factory after giving them THREE MONTHS NOTICE that you are coming, them KNOWING that if you find cigarettes their deal is OVER, seeing piles of tobacco, rolling papers, and all the machinery but NO CIGARETTES, and claiming "they never made cigarettes here".

We inspected them for no good reason and wasted the taxpayers' money doing so.

PEACE...
m...

[Edited on 10-4-2003 by Springer]

The cult leaders emerge....

??????????????

Cult leaders? Who? Where?

P...
m...

Originally posted by MaskedAvatar
The cult leaders emerge....

Springer..

The big cult boss..

If you insinuate that my LOGICAL and rather obvious review of the facts is "cultist" then so be it...

I will ALWAYS opt for the cult of logic and reality over the lunacy of political extremism...

P...
m...

If there were WMD, much like how the U.S. paid $30 million to a Saddam lackey to rat out his boys, we could have easily gotten the info we needed on WMD had there been any info to get. After all, live bodies can move around and should be even harder to find than a stationary cache of WMD evidence.

This highly suggests to me that there were absolutely zip, zero, zilch WMD in Iraqi possession. We would have managed to pay somebody off to tell us where they were if they indeed existed.

So, you are saying IGNORE the FACTS and beleive something else?!

A concise review of the facts is above in a thread authored by your's truly, which incidentally should be put up for a Pulitzer...

PEACE...
m...

Originally posted by Springer
Additionally, given THREE MONTHS to clean house, KNOWING the hammer was about to fall, AND thinking you could dissuade the American Public's stomach for war and thereby survive relatively unscathed, who COULDN'T clean up?

Nobody could clean up from the position that the Bush admin stated. It is not feasible to move from a position of having massive stores of readily deployable weapons, capable of being launched against an enemy at 40 minutes notice, to NOTHING, in three months, while under constant scrutiny.

They told bald-faced lies about the precise location of WMDs, and now they clutch at straws saying "Saddam had weapons programs".

Colin Powell and Condoleeza Rice said respectively in February 2001 and July 2001 that they knew Saddam had no WMD capabilities at all. Everything else has been constructed since 9/11 as a big lie, and the evidence that has been fabricated has met the test only of Cheney's special new intelligence agency which was set up to provide just the false and fabricated evidence that was necessary to support the pre-planned invasion.

Yes, cults engage in brainwashing; consequently it is possible that the specific officials and media that promote the WMD lies are really the cult leaders, and people who defend the Bush admin's criminality here at ATS are the followers.

Kuwait foils smuggling of chemicals, bio warheads from Iraq
Associated Press
Kuwait City, October 2

Kuwaiti security authorities have foiled an attempt to smuggle $60 million worth of chemical weapons and biological warheads from Iraq to an unnamed European country, a Kuwaiti newspaper said on Wednesday.
The pro-Government Al-Siyassah, quoting an unnamed security source, said the suspects had been watched by security since they arrived in Kuwait and were arrested "in due time." It did not say when or how the smugglers entered Kuwait or when they were arrested.

The paper said the smugglers might have had accomplices inside Kuwait. It said Interior Minister Sheik Nawwaf Al Ahmed Al Sabah would hand over the smuggled weapons to an FBI agent at a news conference, but did not say when.

Government officials could not be immediately reached for comment.

Iraqi Interior Minister Nouri Al-Badran met on Tuesday with Sheik Nawwaf and discussed cooperation between the two countries in security matters. His visit is the first by an Iraqi interior minister to Kuwait since 1990.
THE LINK:

www.hindustantimes.com...

There is no doubt at all that Hussein had chemical and biological weapons. He used them on the Iranians during their war and on the Kurds. He never came clean with them, ever. You know it. I know it, and Bob Dole knows. You know there was more reason to believe the sick murderer of innocents had them and would pass them off than to believe he didn't.
Don't worry, the enemy has been stomped on, networks disrupted, logistical supplies are being destroyed/damaged....you are in a safer world. So feel secure while bashing those who took action to make it safer.

Laughing at the lack of WMD's shows some peoples true colors. Pink.

Do you also believe that SD would not reinvigorate his WMD programs (since the UN has said he had one) if left to his own devices??

Some here I sense will use even GOOD news to rationalize NOT ridding the world of SD and his terror/war potential. Beat the dead horse once more, it may kick you.

And let's be honest. I tell you I think you have a gun in your house after you threaten a neighbor. I say I'm going to call the police. You do what?:

A. Say- Yes! I have a gun!

B. Say- No! I have no gun!

C. Say- No! I have no gun! and then hide the gun you have or get rid of it altogether.

I say C.

Sadaam was the target here folks and I really don't care what reasons we used to get him off our necks- they were good enough for most of the Iraqi people who want freedoms and basic rights without fear of beheadings and anal probes.
Dual use means just what it says and I for one am glad this capabilty is being destroyed.
Sanity is creeping back into Iraq with the citizenry enabling change for themselves shortly.

The means did justify the ends. Get over it.

Originally posted by Tyriffic
The means did justify the ends. Get over it.

If this is the case the U.S. has now set a precedent for removing evil dictators. The U.S. has never been the one to go around doing that before, or we would have taken out rotten ol' Pol Pot, Mao Zedong, and Stalin (just to name a few). After all, they killed more than Saddam ever wished he could have.

I guess now the U.S. will be up to its neck in wars in Africa and all other parts of the world fighting, removing, and replacing the many violent regimes that control those countries.

And we better for damn sure destroy Saudi Arabia. After all, they were the country most directly involved with the terrorist events of 09/11/01. Otherwise, we are setting ourselves up for another attack.

Originally posted by heelstone

Originally posted by Tyriffic
The means did justify the ends. Get over it.

If this is the case the U.S. has now set a precedent for removing evil dictators. The U.S. has never been the one to go around doing that before, or we would have taken out rotten ol' Pol Pot, Mao Zedong, and Stalin (just to name a few). After all, they killed more than Saddam ever wished he could have.

I guess now the U.S. will be up to its neck in wars in Africa and all other parts of the world fighting, removing, and replacing the many violent regimes that control those countries.

And we better for damn sure destroy Saudi Arabia. After all, they were the country most directly involved with the terrorist events of 09/11/01. Otherwise, we are setting ourselves up for another attack.

You sound hopeful these things would occur...????

It seems we are "Out of Africa"....Libs can't blame us for being the scourge of the oppressed there...

Be very realistic- the Admin is. And think about the parameters and circumstances that lead us down this path.

We haven't nuked N. Korea yet have we? Iran? Geez man, get a grip. Terroristic groups and the ideologies that fuel them are at war with the west and the U.S. principally- as in chess sometimes the best defense is a good offense.

TC, the real cult leader here at ATS. Seriously though do people such as Springer and yourself not realise how far you've gone when you are told there are NO WMD, and yet you still defend these idiots clinging to some day dream that one day they will show up.

It's amazed me that after the report there hasn't been complete OUTRAGE, it's like it hasn't quite sunk in with Bush Apologists and they think that it's not over yet. Well here's the news, that is IT!!! There is no WMD found and they never will be found, not unless they are planted anyway.
YOUR GOVERNMENT LIED!!! What the hell is wrong with you to defend these lying murdering sacks of #?

There is no shame in admitting you were wrong, please just see sense and realise that even YOU are being #ed.

I just don't know what else to say, it makes me feel really mad that people can be so far gone they can keep defending this #...I'm sorry I don't mean to have a go. Just PLEASE see sense. It's your choice.

What does your story prove TC? Conservative Press also said they had found a van used to make all kinds of WMD. What did that turn out to be in the end and who from...?

You can put up as many temporary images as you want to divert people from the truth but it wont hold forever, soon even the gullible will see through the bull# once they've had enough of the lies.

[Edited on 4-10-2003 by John Nada]

John N.

If masses of nukes and gas were found in Iraq you would be absolutely fine with the war??

I don't think a lot of people here would be OK with the war unless a Democrat was leading it...

I think TC and Springer are only making logical points, whilst some others are looking for conspiracies to feed the anger for GWB. The war was about potentials. Potentials refer to the future. The future is cloudy and infirm, yet when you have indicators of inpending mischief, you must act or have more planes flying into innocent people at work.

You can call me what you will, if you live in my neighbor hood and show threatening behaivor, I'm going to call the cops or a coalition of neighbors will take you out.

Sorry.

There is such a thing as being too patriotic, I'm sure you know. If you seriously believed that Saddam had WMD, then I guess you can't be blamed for sticking up for your Presidents actions, but to still do so when you know full well he has lied to you, caused unnecesary deaths (just like the dictators), and shown himself to be a gullible, shell brained war monger, you must be crazy! Even during the War the propoganda machines were finding "Barrels of possible chemical agents" that always turned out to be gasoline or milk or something stupid......it is just clutching at straws like someone else said.....

It is like people here can't read or something and just keep repeating the "stupid patriot, clutching at straws" mantra...who the hell is clutching here but those gripping over GWB.

Man, I wish sometimes GWB would get kicked out and that "war monger" Clark jumped into this fray just to see the obsequious bull crud genuflecting going on on this board then.

Can't people just be against war? Especially those that are as indefensible as this one?