What is the big deal with denying the Holocaust?

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posted on Dec, 14 2005 @ 08:47 AM
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First, I am not saying the the Holocaust never happened in WWII. I am also not saying it did. This is not a debate wheather it happened or not.

My issue is - why is it such a big deal? There are folks in prison for denying the Holocaust. Why is that?

Ernst Zundel is in a german jail after publicly denying the Holocaust in the US, then shipped to Canada, then shipped to his homeland of Germany

www.zundelsite.org...

One thing we do know is that the numbers have declined over the years from 8 million to under 1 million. So it is easy to understand why someone might think that is was propaganda.

However, weather or not it is propaganda - why is it a crime to not believe it happened, especially when the leaders of the world have a reputation of not understanding the difference between truth and hogwash?


(Please don't let this become an argument about if the Holocaust happened or not)




posted on Dec, 14 2005 @ 08:54 AM
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To deny the Holocaust is to deny the evil that happened. If one can do that then the next step is to see it all happen again.



posted on Dec, 14 2005 @ 09:02 AM
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the smallest questioning of anything involving the holocaust causes such outrage it creates massive media coverage around the world. most of the people that dare question anything about the holocaust are often bombarded by negative news coverage they retreat. i'm glad some people have the fortitude to stand by their views despite the opposition.



posted on Dec, 14 2005 @ 09:18 AM
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the people in jail for denying it are in jail in countries where the atrocities were committed. The gov'ts of these countries set up the laws against denying the existence of the holocaust as a means of trying to never let history repeat itself.

as for what is wrong with denying it happened, imagine if one day more than half of your relatives were rounded up and killed. now imagine someone telling you it didn't happen, that you are making it up.


what if the rest of the world said 9/11 never happened. or pearl harbor never happened. or the madrid bombings never happened. or the london train bombings never happened. or the atomic bomb was never actually dropped on either city in japan.

it shows ignorance and insensitivity toward the victims of the holocaust.



posted on Dec, 14 2005 @ 09:42 AM
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The main line of thought comes from the inconsistencies in the numbers. People take these inconsistencies and twist them into the point of "if these numbers are wrong it could have never happened".

Go ask someone who survived it, they'll clue you up on it pretty quick.



posted on Dec, 14 2005 @ 09:45 AM
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to what end though? if numbers were originally way above 6 million and they back down to 6 million where will it continue to go? 6 million is just the easy number the media has put out there and everyone goes by that. who knows what it really is.



posted on Dec, 14 2005 @ 09:50 AM
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This just goes to show that Iran is in it's own little bubble that will be burst in the not so near future. Also by making such a statement, it just goes to show the world as to how unstable the Iranian leadership is. But what do you do with a country like Iran? You are damned if you do, and you are damned if you don't. I'ts a shame that they have to be the way they are. Another fine example of the religon of peace.



posted on Dec, 14 2005 @ 09:52 AM
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my sister's inlaws were both survivors. her father in law died a few years back but her mother in law is alive and well and is always willing to talk about her years spent in various camps. She also will gladly tell you how she returned to her neighborhood after the war, only to be shot by some locals who had taken her childhood home.

they shot her not once.

not twice

4 times.

the german sends her a pittance in reparations each year for the "inconvenience" of being kept in camps and for being shot once. seems, since the war was over, they don't count the other three bullets she endured as different from the first bullet.



posted on Dec, 14 2005 @ 09:55 AM
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Originally posted by godservant
One thing we do know is that the numbers have declined over the years from 8 million to under 1 million. So it is easy to understand why someone might think that is was propaganda.


Hmm... Most seriously researched academic estimates put it above 6 Million, rather than below 1... a typo I hope...

I do see what you mean on one sense, as groups like the Anti-defamation league are a real over zealous pain in the backside sometimes... HOWEVER... attempts to deny the existance of the camps et al. usually surround equally dubious polemics by right wingers trying to somehow exhonerate the Nazis, which is simply not on.

Also, implying that the Holocaust is some kind of conspiracy more than simply implies that it is some kind of JEWISH conspiracy... surely you see the problem with that...



posted on Dec, 14 2005 @ 10:04 AM
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Originally posted by godservant
One thing we do know is that the numbers have declined over the years from 8 million to under 1 million. So it is easy to understand why someone might think that is was propaganda.


Two things here, godservant:
One: Do NOT remotely put or include me in that absolute, all-encompassing "we know that the numbers have declined...." category.
Two: Cite your source for this ludicrous factoid assertion and claim, k? I will wager you that your source comes from some second-hand holocuast denial site or is asserted by an author who is connected with holocaust denial, definately will not be from some legit academia site or a registered or certified holocaust site. Bet?




seekerof

[edit on 14-12-2005 by Seekerof]



posted on Dec, 14 2005 @ 10:59 AM
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To be clear, I do think a large evil did take place back then. I do see that it would be insensitive to say nothing happened.

I have read many stories of survivors. It was a very troubling time.

I just can't understand why people would be jailed for not believing it.

There are insensitive people al over the world, but is it right to jail them?

In wars, people die. Some, understandably believe that the talk after a war could be used for some sort of political gain.

More than just jews died in germany.

Again, I am not denying the Holocaust, but I can understand why some might have certain doubts. From lying leaders that one can never know if fact or not, to the numerous stories of the german actions then.

Many walk around publically denying parts of 911 without punishment. Why is this jailable?

I feel for the many who had their lives destroyed in those times, I am so very glad I was not part of it, but if someone does not want to belive something, who can say they should be punished for it? It couldn't change anything about it.



posted on Dec, 14 2005 @ 11:03 AM
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Well that seems a bit rediculous to throw someone in jail over denying the Holocaust. I am a personal believer that it DID hapen because there is proof of this. But throwing someone in jail over it isnt right. Its unconstitutional. Its in Germany and im not too famalier with foriegn politics so I dont know if there is a so called "Freedom of Speech" over there. Have they questioned this man at all?



posted on Dec, 14 2005 @ 11:10 AM
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If anything the count reported is less than what occured. Simple fact is that this is simialr to a KKK member trying to state there was never any slavery.

A small group generally speaks for the whole, and through ignorance, one can not learn easily.

I hope his ass rots in jail...

BTW, I am Irish Catholic so I am not bieng biased



posted on Dec, 14 2005 @ 11:25 AM
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Ernst Zundel is in a german jail after publicly denying the Holocaust in the US, then shipped to Canada, then shipped to his homeland of Germany


Neither he, nor any others that I am aware of deny that it happened.

Whats disputed is the number of deaths, and how they died.

The reason why its a crime is because Zionists have taken control of these nations, and they don't want the sympathy cash cow to be killed off.

The sympathy also enables Israeli warcrimes against the Palestinians.

It is a monetary, and political tool that feeds off of the emotions of the living like an empathic vampire.



posted on Dec, 14 2005 @ 11:38 AM
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contrary to what Arch might thing, jews don't control european countries. there are denial laws in many countries that were under german occupation during WWII. The laws are there to try to ensure that the world never forgets the crimes committed.

Arch, you are now saying that France is run by zionists? That's a good one. Funny as hell. untrue but funny as hell.



posted on Dec, 14 2005 @ 12:11 PM
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Originally posted by Yetichi
to what end though? if numbers were originally way above 6 million and they back down to 6 million where will it continue to go? 6 million is just the easy number the media has put out there and everyone goes by that. who knows what it really is.


For you it sounds like a million here or a million there dead Jews is no big deal.


How many dead so-called "palestinians" before you start screaming about genocide - 1, 10, 100?

I think that puts things into perspective.



posted on Dec, 14 2005 @ 12:20 PM
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Originally posted by ArchAngel
Neither he, nor any others that I am aware of deny that it happened.


Zundel: Zundel denies that the Holocaust happened

Take that link, replace the name with those others holocaust deniers and you will see that they have more in common than simply denying the Holocaust ever happened.

Objective research....





seekerof

[edit on 14-12-2005 by Seekerof]



posted on Dec, 14 2005 @ 12:26 PM
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Originally posted by Seekerof

Originally posted by ArchAngel
Neither he, nor any others that I am aware of deny that it happened.


Zundel: Zundel denies that the Holocaust happened

Take that link, replace the name with those others holocaust deniers and you will see that they have more in common than simply denying the Holocaust ever happened.

Objective research....


I see many people saying that he denied it happened, but not one single reference to where he said it.

Give it to us in his words, not a commentators summation.

The so-called holocaust deniers discount the official number of dead and why they died, not that Jews died.



posted on Dec, 14 2005 @ 12:32 PM
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Research is your best friend.

Apparently, either you have no time for it or are simply enjoying spouting speculations, assertions, and half-facts.



Holocaust denial refers to the claims of a small number of individuals and groups, who argue that the Holocaust did not occur as it is defined by mainstream historiography. Key elements of Holocaust denial are the explicit or implicit denial that, in the Holocaust

The #1 hit on Google is?
Google

And my personal favorite:
Holocaust denial on trial





seekerof

[edit on 14-12-2005 by Seekerof]



posted on Dec, 14 2005 @ 12:49 PM
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Originally posted by ArchAngel

The reason why its a crime is because Zionists have taken control of these nations, and they don't want the sympathy cash cow to be killed off.

The sympathy also enables Israeli warcrimes against the Palestinians.

It is a monetary, and political tool that feeds off of the emotions of the living like an empathic vampire.


I have read some literature that is similar to this and it makes sense. Of course Zionists don't run all of these countries, but it is apparent that they have some influence.

There have been some very evil things done during WWII, but there were others evils done too in recent history, and strikes me as odd that you cannot speak against this one. THAT is what I am trying to focus on here. THAT is what I am trying to get to the bottom of. Seems there IS a conspiracy in here. Not that it didn't happen, but that it was used to do something more.

I am not trying affend any race for I have respect for all races, I do not have respect for all people though, there are evil people in all races.

I also appreciate everyone discussing this without name-calling because some think differently than others.

Seekerof, I am not trying to put words in your mouth. Your input is important here. Sorry if I affended you.

[edit on 14-12-2005 by godservant]





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