Leviathan....He's definetly for real

There is a dragon in the Bible, but, supposedl, God killed him (that sucks)...
Here it is...

Job 41
1 "Can you pull in the leviathan [1] with a fishhook
or tie down his tongue with a rope?
2 Can you put a cord through his nose
or pierce his jaw with a hook?
3 Will he keep begging you for mercy?
Will he speak to you with gentle words?
4 Will he make an agreement with you
for you to take him as your slave for life?
5 Can you make a pet of him like a bird
or put him on a leash for your girls?
6 Will traders barter for him?
Will they divide him up among the merchants?
7 Can you fill his hide with harpoons
or his head with fishing spears?
8 If you lay a hand on him,
you will remember the struggle and never do it again!
9 Any hope of subduing him is false;
the mere sight of him is overpowering.
10 No one is fierce enough to rouse him.
Who then is able to stand against me?
11 Who has a claim against me that I must pay?
Everything under heaven belongs to me.

12 "I will not fail to speak of his limbs,
his strength and his graceful form.
13 Who can strip off his outer coat?
Who would approach him with a bridle?
14 Who dares open the doors of his mouth,
ringed about with his fearsome teeth?
15 His back has [2] rows of shields
tightly sealed together;
16 each is so close to the next
that no air can pass between.
17 They are joined fast to one another;
they cling together and cannot be parted.
18 His snorting throws out flashes of light;
his eyes are like the rays of dawn.
19 Firebrands stream from his mouth;
sparks of fire shoot out.
20 Smoke pours from his nostrils
as from a boiling pot over a fire of reeds.
21 His breath sets coals ablaze,
and flames dart from his mouth.
22 Strength resides in his neck;
dismay goes before him.
23 The folds of his flesh are tightly joined;
they are firm and immovable.
24 His chest is hard as rock,
hard as a lower millstone.
25 When he rises up, the mighty are terrified;
they retreat before his thrashing.
26 The sword that reaches him has no effect,
nor does the spear or the dart or the javelin.
27 Iron he treats like straw
and bronze like rotten wood.
28 Arrows do not make him flee;
slingstones are like chaff to him.
29 A club seems to him but a piece of straw;
he laughs at the rattling of the lance.
30 His undersides are jagged potsherds,
leaving a trail in the mud like a threshing sledge.
31 He makes the depths churn like a boiling caldron
and stirs up the sea like a pot of ointment.
32 Behind him he leaves a glistening wake;
one would think the deep had white hair.
33 Nothing on earth is his equal-
a creature without fear.
34 He looks down on all that are haughty;
he is king over all that are proud."


Straight out of the word of the Lord himself..
- Tassadar

Sure that wasn't another name for large, over-sized, "Moby-Dick" type whale?

regards
seekerof

18 His snorting throws out flashes of light;
his eyes are like the rays of dawn.
19 Firebrands stream from his mouth;
sparks of fire shoot out.
20 Smoke pours from his nostrils
as from a boiling pot over a fire of reeds.
21 His breath sets coals ablaze,
and flames dart from his mouth.

...it breathes fire seek...
Does Moby Dick breathe fire???
- Tass

Moby couldnt breathe fire if his life depended on it. But I believe in the dragon.

I think Leviathan is just another name for a sea serpent.

...that breathes fire.

His armor:
24 His chest is hard as rock,
hard as a lower millstone.
dragon scales
25 When he rises up, the mighty are terrified;
they retreat before his thrashing.
scary, of course, so is Barney
26 The sword that reaches him has no effect,
nor does the spear or the dart or the javelin.
immune to mortal weapons, just like the Knghts said
27 Iron he treats like straw
and bronze like rotten wood.
supremly strong
28 Arrows do not make him flee;
slingstones are like chaff to him.
melee ranges weapons don't hurt, wonder about a .50 cal??
29 A club seems to him but a piece of straw;
he laughs at the rattling of the lance.
metaphorical suggstion of sentience

Some Moby Dick, hehe
- Tassadar

OK OK...so it ain't "Moby Dick!" Geez.....

I would have to go with a "dragon" perhaps, as was mentioned before....or a serious nightmare. Sounds like a condensed version of Godzilla, actually.

In one of those Nessie threads I posted a site called "Living Dragons, etc." or something like that.....

regards
seekerof

I'm pretty sure it's a blue whale and the fire breathing thing is just a tall tale. There are old maps with pictures of sea monsters that breathed fire and there have been no records of such creatures ever.

Think about it, you have absolutely no idea what is in the ocean, you're in a flimsy wooden boat, your friends are dying of scurvy and then a blue whale comes to the surface, shoots water out of it's blowhole and submerges. How calm do you think the people who write things like that were to write a perfect description of something as terrifying as a blue whale?

And as somewhat more "Enlightened" members of this board, we know that everything thing in the bible must be real, right?

Leviathan is the God of Hell in the Hellraiser series.

Did anyone else read this and say dinosaur? Because that is what was meant by this, according to several scholars.

Originally posted by Loki
Did anyone else read this and say dinosaur? Because that is what was meant by this, according to several scholars.

Nope not really, to my knowlege there has not been any that fit that description. That quite honestly fits the description of a dragon only under water... hmm.

I don't believe that everything in the bible is as it was interpretted, however... I do think there is some truth in every myth.

I have read that Leviathan was a sea monster that was defeated by Jahve during the creation and that it will have to be defeated again on judgement day. I ran a search in different encyclopedias and read that In the old testament it says nothing about Leviathan being a sea monster, there it is only described as a "chaos animal" ... But that it has been told in other bible texts that it lived in water. Some people think its some sort of a dolphin or whale, but according to the text Tassadar posten thats unlikly. I also believe it is some sort of a reptile... maybe a worm or a giant snake or of course a dragon.

In Enclyclopedia Mythica I found two other names from other mythologies taht is similar to the leviathan.

Lotan "Syro-Palestinian myth, a monstrous primeval serpent who was slain by Baal. In the Hebrew dialect of the Old Testament, he is referred to a Leviathan"

and

Illujanka - "In Hittite myth (Asia Minor), Illujanka is a snake-demon who is crushed to death by the weather-god, symbolizing the beginning of a new era. This myth was read on New Year's Day and shows many similarities with the myths of Baal and Leviathan, and Zeus and Typhon. "

PS: If anyone listen to kind of depressive black metal akin to Abyssic Hate and Burzum, you should check out the band Leviathan. The US has never been known for their great black metal bands, hehe... but this one man project is from San Fransisco and its actually great. Ice cold riffs and sick depressive vocals... great voice.

mayb its related to Atlantis? perhaps?

Here's another passage confirming Leviathan's existence:
Psalm 104
24 How many are your works, O LORD !
In wisdom you made them all;
the earth is full of your creatures.
25 There is the sea, vast and spacious,
teeming with creatures beyond number-
living things both large and small.
26 There the ships go to and fro,
and the leviathan, which you formed to frolic there.

The destruction of Leviathan:
Isaiah 27
1 In that day,

the LORD will punish with his sword,
his fierce, great and powerful sword,
Leviathan the gliding serpent,
Leviathan the coiling serpent;
he will slay the monster of the sea.

Leviathan is already dead:
Psalm 74
13 It was you who split open the sea by your power;
you broke the heads of the monster in the waters.
14 It was you who crushed the heads of Leviathan
and gave him as food to the creatures of the desert.


Here is the site for the order of Leviathan,
www.remanifest.com...
an Egyptian order dedicated to discovering Leviathan

I'll look more into Latin American beliefs (Toltec, Olmec, Inca, Aztec, Mayan, etc...) today and be back later today or tommorow.
- Tass

I agree with one of the above posters...

Ancient men simply saw water spray and assumed smoke, and then went the extra mile and assumed it breathed fire. However, I'm betting instead, that some of the armoured fish from earlier eras to to blame for the leviathan and most accounts of dragons...but that they died off before most modern history... They certainly would fit the bill....

I have been looking up for info on Leviathan. And it has shown me that he / she was a sea monster. Destroying ships as they pass by. Here are some pictures I fell are the best of he / she.

www.areacom.it...

www.smh.com.au...

As the first picture is a drawing, I still fell it is one of the best to sum him / she up. Ask for the second picture. I fell it is a good picture, but is too small to be it.

As for the fire breathing, I have had a friend read into Leviathan. He does breath fire, but only when out of the water. I'm also sure it has wings to fly, but no books have said that no one has seen the body of it. So this is yet to be known. If Leviathan is still alive today, I would have to say it was caught up in the ice age. Like most creatures who live in the sea. Were frozen in the sea. That's why we still have sharks and crocodiles.

That is my theory on Leviathan.

Since many culturs based around ocean coastlines have similiar tales, one would have the impression that there must be a connecting factor. Are there great sea monsters? Yes... we keep finding new animals all the time. I myself would say a giant squid... "glowing" eye (a reddish color might give that impression), armour (it's shell), smoke (the ink).
Where are they now? As man encroches further into the animal kingdoms, you would think that with our need to contaminate will give most. Besides, one did wash ashore...
Personally, I'd like to think it was a Cthulhu type creature (but since the great old one is trapped underwater, that wouldn't be possible, would it?)

Why not just say it's Cthulhu and be done with it?

Maybe there was a really really big eel that ate fishing boats? Heheheheh.

Not an historical document, but a collection of didactic morality stories.

BUT

I do believe, as the timeline of human history has proven, animals become extinct and what was a fairly common site to it's contemporary man, is a fable to future man.
Looking back 2000 years, I'm sure there were still enough sea monsters about. Hell, think 50 ft Great White or that other Bad mama jammer that was bigger than that! You don't think those puppies would gobble up any skiff of reeds in a nano?