NEWS: An Islamic Guide On How To Beat Your Wife, page 1

NEWS: An Islamic Guide On How To Beat Your Wife, page

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Topic started on 5-10-2005 @ 01:35 PM by Freedom_for_sum

A Spanish Imam, sentenced to 15 months in jail and fined $2600 for inciting violence against women, has been released after serving only 22 days on the condition that he studies the constitution. He was charged because in his book "Women in Islam" he prescribes methods on how to beat your wife without leaving marks.

www.washingtontimes.com
MADRID -- An imam who wrote a book on how to beat your wife without leaving marks on her body has been ordered by a judge in Spain to study the country's constitution.

In his book "Women in Islam," published four years ago, Mr. Mustafa wrote that verbal warnings followed by a period of sexual inactivity could be used to discipline a disobedient wife.

If that failed, he argued that, according to Islamic law, beatings could be judiciously administered.

Please visit the link provided for the complete story.

This I believe is the fundamental problem with attempting to integrate Islam into western countries. Islam has its own set of laws, called Sharia, which generally conflict with free countries constitutional law. It should be noted that, while what this Imam wrote seems reprehensible, Islam does provide for physical punishment of women. Here is the supporting Surah (from the Qur'an) that provides this guidance:

4:34 Men are the maintainers of women because Allah has made some of them to excel others and because they spend out of their property; the good women are therefore obedient, guarding the unseen as Allah has guarded; and (as to) those on whose part you fear desertion, admonish them, and leave them alone in the sleeping-places and beat them; then if they obey you, do not seek a way against them; surely Allah is High, Great.

reply posted on 5-10-2005 @ 01:38 PM by worldwatcher

well at least they're open about it and you pretty much know what to expect if you married to an extremist nut.

But I have to say that thru experience, I have found that it doesn't matter what culture or religion men come from, wife beaters are very common and one of the biggest problem in domestic life all around the world, including the good ole USA.

I guess it's only bad when you talk about it, but if you beat your wife sneakily then it all okay eh?

reply posted on 5-10-2005 @ 01:41 PM by Britguy

Realistically though, not every Muslim beats women.
The way some articles I have seen harp on about this issue, you'd think that we westerners in our wholesome Christian societies never lift a finger against women

Sure, a lot of Muslim men probably do give their wife a slap now and again but, when you look at the rates of assaults, sexual attacks and rapes of women in the west, we can hardly hold the moral ground on our treatment of women.

reply posted on 5-10-2005 @ 01:48 PM by Freedom_for_sum

At least in the good ole' USofA the govt doesn't sanction wife beating--it's quite illegal and there is no trailer park clause in the law. And there's nothing "extreme" about this when its a generally accepted practice.

reply posted on 5-10-2005 @ 02:04 PM by SportyMB

I voted "YES" on this....it meets the criteria, that's about it.

Men from all religions and backgrounds beat thier women, it's not limited to muslims. In fact, it's probably more in the states than in Muslim countries. However, I do believe that this is another example of why Islam cannot properly "function" in American Society (at least for now). Muslims do have thier own set of laws they hold above all. Maybe one day it'll work.

Anyways, I can probably use a few lessons

joking

[edit on 5/10/2005 by SportyMB]

reply posted on 5-10-2005 @ 02:11 PM by wecomeinpeace

Take a gander through your bed-side Christian bible and see some of the atrocities against women, virgins, heathens, et al that are apparently sanctioned in there. All religious texts have been corrupted and altered throughout history, which is why so many contradictions arise in all of them. What each does with the knowledge and guidance therein, and how and where to filter out the obvious nonsense pr fallacies, is up to the individual.

reply posted on 5-10-2005 @ 02:46 PM by Freedom_for_sum

The problem with Islam is that not only is it a religion, but it is also a political/social system; like fascism or communism. The bible may say a alot of reprehensible things. But laws prevent those things from becoming an accepted practice. Since Islam includes Sharia law, everything stated in the Qur'an and the Hadith is accepted practice--regardless of whether individual Muslims choose to practice them.

reply posted on 5-10-2005 @ 02:46 PM by marg6043

Like Worldwatcher point out at least they are open about it,

While in our Christian society women treatment is better now that used to be, still we hold the legacy and the curse of Eve, it was a time in Christianity that women were sold into slavery, or married and given away to the higher bidder.

At least all that had change, but the abuse of women is still rampant even in the US, in many Spanish countries wife beating and abuse is a common practice even in my Island the incident of spousal abuse is high.

Still many religious groups in the US would like to keep women subjugated; all you have to see is the way many fundamentalist groups’ agendas is all about.

This are some bible views on women.

Matthew 24:19 "[woe] unto them that are with child"
Luke 2:22 Mary is unclean after birth of Jesus
14:26 You cannot be Jesus's disciple unless you
hate your mother, father, and family
20:34-35 Better chance to get to heaven if you don't marry
I Corinthians
11:3-15 Man is the head of the woman; only man
is in the image and glory of God
14:24-35 Women, keep in silence; may only learn from husbands
Ephesians 5:22-3 "Wives, submit..."
Colossians 3:18 More "Wives, submit yourselves..."
I Timothy 2:9 Women adorn yourselves in shamefacedness
2:11-14 Women should learn in silence in all subjection;
Eve was sinful, Adam blameless
2:15
Ephesians 5:22 33 women will not die in childbirth if they
"continue in faith, charity and holiness"
I Peter 3:17 Women should talk to husbands in fear
Genesis 2:22 Woman created from Adam's rib
3:16 "In sorrow thou shalt bring forth children."
Leviticus 12:1-4 Women who have sons are unclean 7 days
12:4-7 Women who have daughters are unclean 14 days
15:19-23 Menstrual periods are unclean
Numbers 5:13-3 Unpassable adulteress test encourages
jealousy and cruelty
31:17-35 "Virgins" are war booty
Deuteronomy
22:13-21
Bride who is not virgin must be stoned to death
22:28 Unmarried rape victim must marry her rapist
24:1 Men can divorce women on the spot
28:11-12 Delicate women will be forced to eat their children
I Samuel 21:4-5 Men are holy if they stay away from women
Job 14:1-4 "Who can bring a clean thing out of
an unclean [woman]? not one"
Psalm 51:5 "In sin did my mother conceive me"
Isaiah 13:16 "their wives [shall be] ravished"
Hosea 13:16 "Their infants shall be dashed in pieces and
their women with child shall be ripped up."

reply posted on 5-10-2005 @ 02:56 PM by dawnstar

"Men are the maintainers of women because Allah has made some of them to excel others and because they spend out of their property"

dependancy=servitude....

"A husband is to love his wife as Christ loved the church. He has the God-given responsibility to provide for, to protect, and to lead his family. A wife is to submit herself graciously to the servant leadership of her husband even as the church willingly submits to the headship of Christ. "

www.sbc.net...

depndency=servitude.....because she is dependant on him, well, she is to obey him, and well, this leads to the question of what should be done if she refuses.

I was watching one of the sunday news commentary shows awhile back and they had a group of religious leaders on. someone brought up this part of the baptist doctrine and asked just what it meant. one of them piped up and said that well, it means that if the husband doesn't want her to work, then she shouldn't. But, we can all see just what the popular feeling of the day regarding dependancy is. we resent those who we have to support thru the social service system, we resent our money being sent to the United Nations. We tend to exploit our labor force, as well as the poor in other countries for our own profit. Why would man be that much different when it comes to women? They are paying their way, by God, they are gonna expect something in return! and well, some might decide that extreme measures are necessary to get what they want!
the point I am making is that the key, at least my opinion, is to try to gear society so that the "master-slave" element isn't a part of the marriage equation. which means, a way needs to be found for us to be able to reproduce without adversely deminishing one party's ability to meet their own needs.

reply posted on 5-10-2005 @ 03:00 PM by ShadowXIX

Wasnt there some rule back in the day that man could beat his wife provided he used a switch no larger than his thumb?

Im not really sure if that was true or not but surely wife-beating was once common in the west and, in most legal circles, acceptable if it didn't "go too far."

reply posted on 5-10-2005 @ 03:07 PM by JIMC5499

You better keep that book away from that Federal District Court in California if you know what's good for you. I have got to wonder what would happen if a follower of Islam was arrested for beating his wife and tried to appeal under freedom of religion. The real kicker would be if his wife testified that because she too was a follower of Islam that he did nothing wrong. This would be like dropping a PC Nuke on the talk shows and college campuses.

reply posted on 5-10-2005 @ 03:08 PM by SportyMB

Noone here (yet) is denying that the Chrisitan Bible also has verses that speak down on women. That is NOT the issue.

The issue is if this is a fundamental problem with attempting to integrate Islam into western countries. IMO, Chrisitanity has nothing to do with this issue. As Freedom_for_sum mentioned, Islam goes far deeper than a few passages. It's an ism....

[edit on 5/10/2005 by SportyMB]

reply posted on 5-10-2005 @ 03:10 PM by Freedom_for_sum

You guys with your bible references and comparisons to Christianity insist on making this a discussion on religion. I believe it's a discussion on socialism and the societal diferences betwen western/free nations and Islamic nations. You can list all the bad things the bible says and our laws still prevent them from becoming accepted practice. In Islam, beating your wife, among other things, is accepted practice.

reply posted on 5-10-2005 @ 03:12 PM by GradyPhilpott

Originally posted by marg6043

...Deuteronomy...

...28:11-12 Delicate women will be forced to eat their children

One would do well to not only look up these verses to determine their accuracy, but to take the verses into context. Deuteronomy 28:11-12 says:

Deut.28 Verses 11 to 12

[11] And the LORD shall make thee plenteous in goods, in the fruit of thy body, and in the fruit of thy cattle, and in the fruit of thy ground, in the land which the LORD sware unto thy fathers to give thee.
[12] The LORD shall open unto thee his good treasure, the heaven to give the rain unto thy land in his season, and to bless all the work of thine hand: and thou shalt lend unto many nations, and thou shalt not borrow.

KJV

[edit on 2005/10/5 by GradyPhilpott]

reply posted on 5-10-2005 @ 03:14 PM by Crakeur

Originally posted by Freedom_for_sumMr. Mustafa wrote that verbal warnings followed by a period of sexual inactivity could be used to discipline a disobedient wife.

I get verbal warnings all the time. Sexual inactivity? My wife calls it marriage. should I be on the lookout for a good old fashioned beating?

The concept of writing a book on how to punish your wife (not talking fetish style stuff here) is as frighteningly outdated as some of the punishments doled out in muslim countries for breaking their antiquated, often barbaric, laws.

Sadly, the one key ingredient to bringing these folks up close to the modern way of thinking is education and their brand of education is usually mosque based.

reply posted on 5-10-2005 @ 03:14 PM by dawnstar

I think the problem you are hinting to is the fact that so many of that religion are trying to form their civic government so that it is under the religion's laws..
this isn't conducive to democracy, where the people....(most of whom are naturally imperfect and thus sinful) are to rule, thru their elected representative body.

but then, I would like to point out, they're, by far, are not the only ones making this attempt. they are just the ones willing to go to such extremes as violence to get it.

reply posted on 5-10-2005 @ 03:27 PM by Freedom_for_sum

Originally posted by SportyMB
Noone here (yet) is denying that the Chrisitan Bible also has verses that speak down on women. That is NOT the issue.

The issue is if this is a fundamental problem with attempting to integrate Islam into western countries. IMO, Chrisitanity has nothing to do with this issue. As Freedom_for_sum mentioned, Islam goes far deeper than a few passages. It's an ism....

Thanks, SportyMB, for understanding my position on this. I never intended for this to become a discussion on this "evil religion is worse than that evil religion" or this religious text says this this and this. This is supposed to be a discussion on social differences and I felt that this news submission was a perfect example of these differences.

reply posted on 5-10-2005 @ 03:31 PM by RANT

I wish some activist liberal Judge here in the US had a little creative leeway to make that childbeating advocate and wiener dog sadist President Dobson study the Constitution.

Focus on the Family Founder Jimmy "smack my bitch up" Dobson from his best selling "how-to" (raise your family) guide The Strong Willed Child:

"When I told Sigmund to leave his warm seat and go to bed, he flattened his ears and slowly turned his head toward me. He deliberately braced himself by placing one paw on the edge of the furry lid, then hunched his shoulders, raised his lips to reveal the molars on both sides, and uttered his most threatening growl. That was Siggie's way of saying. "Get lost!"

"I had seen this defiant mood before, and knew there was only one way to deal with it. The ONLY way to make Siggie obey is to threaten him with destruction. Nothing else works. I turned and went to my closet and got a small belt to help me "reason" with Mr. Freud."

What developed next is impossible to describe. That tiny dog and I had the most vicious fight ever staged between man and beast. I fought him up one wall and down the other, with both of us scratching and clawing and growling and swinging the belt. I am embarrassed by the memory of the entire scene. Inch by inch I moved him toward the family room and his bed. As a final desperate maneuver, Siggie backed into the corner for one last snarling stand. I eventually got him to bed, only because I outweighed him 200 to 12!"

Praise the Lord. Pass the belt.

reply posted on 5-10-2005 @ 03:36 PM by RANT

Originally posted by SportyMB
Noone here (yet) is denying that the Chrisitan Bible also has verses that speak down on women. That is NOT the issue.

The issue is if this is a fundamental problem with attempting to integrate Islam into western countries.