Jesus is not God - Here's the proof !

Wouldn't this be considered the greatest deception known to mankind? I mean, it makes the most sense, if you really think about it all. Taking a step back and looking at organized religion and how much influence and power it has over the people and all governments worldwide? People drop on their knees, praying til their eyes bleed hoping to shine some light upon this earth and it's people, but...nothing happens. Maybe because he is just a fictional character? Maybe we're talking to ourselves? Maybe we are the ones who really matter. Maybe we are the powerful ones. Maybe we hold every secret within us to achieve true happiness. Maybe..just maybe.. we are the true gods. Is it possible that we don't know this yet because we haven't really tapped into our true potential? Our...true selves? I think it's more than probable, and I believe we're looking at the greatest lie ever told and it's been staring at us all this time.

The Morning Star - The Hidden Meaning of Words
pdf

a small sample from that pdf researched by Jose Barreto Silva:

" the reader must bear in mind that such characters as Lucifer, Satan, and Devil does not exist in reality in spirit-form or human shaped form but are a concept, an "idea", a "thought form" or an evil implanted conscience that simply represents everything that is contrary to the Wisdom, Knowledge, Perfect Harmony, and Love of Creation and its Laws and Directives and actually is the situation of extremely spiritual confusion and the general situation of extreme havoc planet planet Earth has been made by the irrationality of wrongful teachings of earthly religions specially Christian sectarian ones, politics, governments, etc... "




Jesus - The Son of Lie: THE REAL NAME OF THE BEAST

Has anyone seen this? This is the first time I've come across this movie:

The Beast

more info here:

Former Christian director's secretive film

Well, I don't know about you guys, but I want to see that movie now!

[edit on 2-8-2005 by eudaimonia]

[edit on 3-8-2005 by John bull 1]

This may be a minor point, but i thought Jesus was God's "son"-not God himself.

As for Jesus having lived, I would say yes. He is talked about in both the bible and Koran-a pretty good sign he did walk the earth. Take note, the Koran only see's Jesus as a phrophet, but still he was seen.

as posted by eudaimonia
Maybe because he is just a fictional character? Maybe we're talking to ourselves? Maybe we are the ones who really matter. Maybe we are the powerful ones. Maybe we hold every secret within us to achieve true happiness. Maybe..just maybe.. we are the true gods.

Quite an extensive use of "maybe."
You forgot a few more, like:
Maybe one won't know whats really a "lie" till one passes away...."
Maybe one should not bash those who have some sort of faith or spirituality when it appears that one, such as yourself, has neither.
Maybe what one percieves as a "lie" is truth to others.
Maybe what makes perfect sense to one, does not make perfect sense to another.
Maybe it matters not if Jesus was of God or of Man; it is the message that was left to future generations that matters. You know, like the message of Buddha, Confucius, Muhammad, etc. Nearly 5 to 6 billion plus people have religious, faith-based, spiritual beliefs......







seekerof

[edit on 2-8-2005 by Seekerof]

Have you thought that the ''Morning star'' could have two meanings in the scriptures?

Words in the Bible do not always mean what they say.....Interpreting scripture based on man's thinking and OWN ideas can get you lots of various meanings....just look at how many Christian's base their own ideas on what is said in the scriptures and you have contradictions here and there.

quote///
The Prophet Isaiah gives the name morning star to Satan, who fell from heaven (14.12).
In this sense these words refer to the dominion of the believing Christians over Satan (cf. Luke 10.18-19)

Revelation.Ch.2:28-29. And I will give him the morning star. He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches.

Jesus Christ the morning star, which shines in the hearts of men (1.19)

IX
helen

I agree with seekerof. Instead of bashing a religion (no matter what religion it is), we should help each other find common ground. Given, there alot of down sides to organized religions (wars, genocides, etc.), but that isn't the religions fault, it's man's. What's more, Yeshua (whoever he was), was a wise man and had good things to say (if he indeed said them). Although some people might not believe he existed (as I don't), they do believe in the 'positive' messages left in his wake. To each his own. Instead od bashing each other for differences of faith/opinion/etc., we should be connecting with each other on our similarities.

Edited: Also, I agree with the poster below seekerof. People shouldn't base their realities on possibly atltered documents. Rather, they should live by the postitive messages within that same vessel.

- Fallen One

[edit on 2/8/2005 by FallenOne]

[edit on 2/8/2005 by FallenOne]

Well just a couple...

Mat 11:25 At that time Jesus answered and said, I thank you, O Father, Lord of heaven and earth, because you have hid these things from the wise and prudent, and have revealed them unto babes.

Mat 11:27 All things are delivered unto me of my Father: and no man knows the Son, but the Father; neither knows any man the Father, except the Son, and he to whomever the Son will reveal him

Mat 26:29 But I say unto you, I will not drink again of this fruit of the vine, until that day when I drink it new with you in my Father's kingdom.


And of course my favorite:

John 14:6 Jesus said unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man comes unto the Father, but by me.

And for those who speak Greek,

(GNT) λέγει αὐτῷ ὁ ᾿Ιησοῦς· ἐγώ εἰμι ἡ ὁδὸς καὶ ἡ ἀλήθεια καὶ ἡ ζωή· οὐδεὶς ἔρχεται πρὸς τὸν πατέρα εἰ μὴ δι᾿ ἐμοῦ.

Joh 14:6 -

I am the way, the truth, and the life.
This is said in reply to Thomas. Without him there would be no Way revealed; no divine and saving truth, no immortal life.

No man cometh to the Father, but by me.
Not only can no one enter the Father's house without him, but no man can come to the Father on earth so as to enjoy his favor. "There is no other name given under heaven among men whereby we must be saved."

Ok this is what I`m talking about..
This has got to be the big deception. They have taken the Man of Galillee and turned him into Mythology . Could this be what they have done. Took the real message that was taught and buried it and came up with their own and called it Jesus.
The jesus Pictures that we have today are truely an Image, right? and they are everywhere. This is not even the True man that taught the true path.
If the Man of Galillee would walk into a Church today, they would be the first to throw him out without even knowing who he was.

Originally posted by Seekerof
Quite an extensie use of "maybe."

Uh, so? The point I was trying to make is, these are ideas of what I believe to be true. I guess it wasn't too obvious, I'll give you that.

You forgot a few more, like:
Maybe one won't know whats really a "lie" till one passes away...."

What are you saying? That death is where truth lies? No pun intended.

Maybe one should not bash those who have some sort of faith or spirituality when it appears that one, such as yourself, has neither.

I'm not bashing. Exactly where do I say in the thread that no one should have faith or spirituality? Let me be clear. One should have faith and spirituality, but...the real question is, how much truth is based on those beliefs? I admit there are some inspirational verses from the bible especially when "Jesus" talks, but again..my question is, was Jesus a living breathing "God" in the flesh walking on earth? maybe we should define who or what God/god really is.

Maybe what one percieves as a "lie" is truth to others.

What is this truth, seekerof? Are you saying that Jesus Christ is absolute truth and therefore everyone should follow him simply because he is the truth, the way, and the light for all humanity? And if we don't follow, we are doomed for eternity? Or is Jesus just another highly evolved intelligent man just like Buddha, Confucius, Muhammad, etc.?

Maybe what makes perfect sense to one, does not make perfect sense to another.

Yes, but where's the common sense of believing in one self? Why keep the mind in a cage? Why base your every action and thought on a 2000 year old book? All I see in the bible are a few inspirational life lessons. The difference is, there's a man claiming to be God. Where do you find the truth in that?

Prayer is simply a collective consciousness technique or energy creation that you release within yourself to mold time and space at will.

How can one prove Jesus is intervening?

Maybe it matters not if Jesus was of God or of Man; it is the message that was left to future generations that matters. You know, like the message of Buddha, Confucius, Muhammad, etc. Nearly 5 to 6 billion plus people have religious, faith-based, spiritual beliefs......

Well, I give you that. Unfortunately, not too many people think that way. 6 Billion people believe he is God and he will return to save humanity through a...rapture.

Originally posted by noosnomrm
This may be a minor point, but i thought Jesus was God's "son"-not God himself.

Well, believers are 50/50 on that. Why? I have no idea. Either he was the son or God himself. Herself...Both? Who knows.

As for Jesus having lived, I would say yes. He is talked about in both the bible and Koran-a pretty good sign he did walk the earth. Take note, the Koran only see's Jesus as a phrophet, but still he was. seen

Just because he is talked about in the Bible and the Koran doesn't mean it automatically turns into Fact that he walked on the earth.

If you ask me, the authors original post is among the most selfish things i've ever heard/read in my life... Thats the same kind of selfish/ego. thinking that the Bible preached so heavily against.

Originally posted by FallenOne
Given, there alot of down sides to organized religions (wars, genocides, etc.), but that isn't the religions fault, it's man's.

There's no positive use for organized religion in our society. Whether man uses it for good or evil, it still serves no purpose.

Why not make love, acceptance, forgiveness, and all true positive qualities of humans as a universal religion. You can call it Humanity for Humanity.

Rather, they should live by the postitive messages within that same vessel.

Sure, it's always good to live by positive messages. But the problem is when you have a religion that says "Our God is THE God".

Originally posted by eudaimonia

Originally posted by noosnomrm
This may be a minor point, but i thought Jesus was God's "son"-not God himself.

Well, believers are 50/50 on that. Why? I have no idea. Either he was the son or God himself. Herself...Both? Who knows.

No very few Christians believe he is just a 'son'. As the Bible so straightforwardly says.....

John 14:6 Jesus said to him, "I am the way, the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through Me.

John 8:57 Then the Jews said to Him, "You are not yet fifty years old, and have You seen Abraham?"
Joh 8:58 Jesus said to them, "Most assuredly, I say to you, before Abraham was, I AM."


John 14:10 "Do you not believe that I am in the Father, and the Father in Me? The words that I speak to you I do not speak on My own authority; but the Father who dwells in Me does the works.

John 17:11 "Now I am no longer in the world, but these are in the world, and I come to You. Holy Father, keep through Your name those whom You have given Me, that they may be one as We are.

noosnomrm....

This may be a minor point, but i thought Jesus was God's "son"-not God himself.

Jesus Christ is God......Who took flesh and became man...The Son Of God.

Why else was He condemned?

Jesus Christ is the WORD...LOGOS

quote/// “By the word of the Lord the heavens were made,
and all the host of them by the breath of His mouth” (Psalm 33:6) — stated in the Psalter, formerly read daily by the Judeans either in ancient-Jewish text or in translated form of the Seventy.

“In the beginning was the Word” means that the Word is co-eternal to God. What’s more, Saint John explains further that in respect of His existence, the Word does not separate from God and consequently, It is One Essence to God and finally, he directly calls the Word God: “and the Word was God.”

the incarnation of the Son of God.

Word~Logos

Among the Romans and other pagan people there arose the general belief that in the East there would soon appear a powerful king who would subjugate the entire world.Upon the appearance of every prominent preacher, everyone involuntarily asked if he were the Christ.
Even the semi-pagan Samaritans hoped that soon would come Christ the Saviour, Who would resolve all the quarrelsome questions between them and the Jews concerning the faith.
Unfortunately, not only the pagans, but also the Jews themselves mistakenly imagined what Christ would be like. They did not picture Him as the Prophet Isaiah and other prophets represented Him, as one that would bear our sins, suffer for us and, though innocent, be condemned to death.
The Jews had no idea that Christ the Saviour would come to earth for the purpose of teaching people, through His example, word, deeds, and suffering, to love God and each other.
They desired to see Christ not like this, but rather with worldly power and glory. Therefore, they thought that Christ would come in worldly glory and would be the earthly king over the Jewish people. He would free the Jews from the power of Rome and would subjugate the whole world, and the Jews would reign over all the peoples of the earth.

43. The Roman Empire.The Universal Expectation of the Messiah.

IX
helen

Originally posted by antigovFZ777
If you ask me, the authors original post is among the most selfish things i've ever heard/read in my life... Thats the same kind of selfish/ego. thinking that the Bible preached so heavily against.

Oh, so now I'm the bad guy? Show me where I displayed my selfishness and ego. On the contrary, I'm trying to stimulate the exchange of ideas.

So now I'm one those people that the bible preached so heavily against. Show me the verse in the bible that says I don't have the right to ASK QUESTIONS OR ENGAGE IN CONTROVERSIAL SUBJECT MATTER. Give me a break. Go back in your cave and think for once in your life.

Originally posted by eudaimonia
Wouldn't this be considered the greatest deception known to mankind? I mean, it makes the most sense, if you really think about it all. Taking a step back and looking at organized religion and how much influence and power it has over the people and all governments worldwide? People drop on their knees, praying til their eyes bleed hoping to shine some light upon this earth and it's people, but...nothing happens. Maybe because he is just a fictional character? Maybe we're talking to ourselves? Maybe we are the ones who really matter. Maybe we are the powerful ones. Maybe we hold every secret within us to achieve true happiness. Maybe..just maybe.. we are the true gods. Is it possible that we don't know this yet because we haven't really tapped into our true potential? Our...true selves? I think it's more than probable, and I believe we're looking at the greatest lie ever told and it's been staring at us all this time.

The Morning Star - The Hidden Meaning of Words
pdf

a small sample from that pdf researched by Jose Barreto Silva:

" the reader must bear in mind that such characters as Lucifer, Satan, and Devil does not exist in reality in spirit-form or human shaped form but are a concept, an "idea", a "thought form" or an evil implanted conscience that simply represents everything that is contrary to the Wisdom, Knowledge, Perfect Harmony, and Love of Creation and its Laws and Directives and actually is the situation of extremely spiritual confusion and the general situation of extreme havoc planet planet Earth has been made by the irrationality of wrongful teachings of earthly religions specially Christian sectarian ones, politics, governments, etc... "




Jesus - The Son of Lie: THE REAL NAME OF THE BEAST

Has anyone seen this? This is the first time I've come across this movie:

The Beast

more info here:

Former Christian director's secretive film

Well, I don't know about you guys, but I want to see that movie now!

[edit on 2-8-2005 by eudaimonia]

For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.

Oh ye of little faith...

[edit on 3-8-2005 by glan]

Originally posted by eudaimonia

Originally posted by FallenOne
Given, there alot of down sides to organized religions (wars, genocides, etc.), but that isn't the religions fault, it's man's.

There's no positive use for organized religion in our society. Whether man uses it for good or evil, it still serves no purpose.

Why not make love, acceptance, forgiveness, and all true positive qualities of humans as a universal religion. You can call it Humanity for Humanity.

Humanity for Humanity would still be a religion. Something that you see no positive use for. I really don't understand your point.

Originally posted by edsinger
No very few Christians believe he is just a 'son'. As the Bible so straightforwardly says.....

John 14:6 Jesus said to him, "I am the way, the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through Me.

John 8:57 Then the Jews said to Him, "You are not yet fifty years old, and have You seen Abraham?"
Joh 8:58 Jesus said to them, "Most assuredly, I say to you, before Abraham was, I AM."


John 14:10 "Do you not believe that I am in the Father, and the Father in Me? The words that I speak to you I do not speak on My own authority; but the Father who dwells in Me does the works.

John 17:11 "Now I am no longer in the world, but these are in the world, and I come to You. Holy Father, keep through Your name those whom You have given Me, that they may be one as We are.

If by very few you mean millions, then yes, I would agree.

So basically, from those verses, you're showing me that whenever Jesus called out to his Father, he's really calling out to himself. Is that it? It just seems that it's not exactly CLEAR what Jesus is actually saying. How one interprets these verses could result in a very long debate and endless possibiliies on what Jesus really meant.

I talk to myself sometimes too, and I can look up into the night sky and say "oh stars, bless me with your piercing good light, for you are me and you are in me."

What's the difference how I visualize my belief and how Jesus visualized his? Would Jesus condemn for the choices I make? I thought we all had freewill.

Why not make love, acceptance, forgiveness, and all true positive qualities of humans as a universal religion. You can call it Humanity for Humanity.

You should get involved in the NWO

Originally posted by darkelf

Originally posted by eudaimonia

Originally posted by FallenOne
Given, there alot of down sides to organized religions (wars, genocides, etc.), but that isn't the religions fault, it's man's.

There's no positive use for organized religion in our society. Whether man uses it for good or evil, it still serves no purpose.

Why not make love, acceptance, forgiveness, and all true positive qualities of humans as a universal religion. You can call it Humanity for Humanity.

Humanity for Humanity would still be a religion. Something that you see no positive use for. I really don't understand your point.

Maybe you should read it again.

I was speaking as an example, an idea. Not..strictly a religion, but make it seem as it was. if we were living in a utopia world, we would have no use for religion of any kind but instead have a universal common accepted thought that ties with all humans. That would include all those nice qualities we all possess. No god connection, no creation theories, no armageddon to influence the consciousness of humanity. We would be thinking for ourselves, helping others think for themselves through our own ingenuity and compassion.

I'm posting one last thing in here and I'm out... BTW this is going in both threads I'm involved in.

Matthew 10
14 And whosoever shall not receive you, nor hear your words, when ye depart out of that house or city, shake off the dust of your feet.
15 Verily I say unto you, It shall be more tolerable for the land of Sodom and Gomorrha in the day of judgment, than for that city.
16 Behold, I send you forth as sheep in the midst of wolves: be ye therefore wise as serpents, and harmless as doves.

God bless all...We all have hope...God saved me