Does a Clone have a soul?!?

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posted on Aug, 16 2003 @ 02:58 PM
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So what is the answer? Lets look into the future and take one scenario:

A person by the name of Will is fifty years old and lives as an atheist. Will has undergone many cosmetic surgeries for vanity, so he looks different from how nature intended. Does Will have a soul? Of course he does; right? He may not recognize God, but that does not mean God does not exist. He may not know if he has a soul, that does not mean he does not have one.
Now Will is very wealthy and decides they would like a clone of himself so his image is left behind after he dies.

The clone is made and is physically identical to how Will looked when he was young. All Natural with no cosmetic surgery. The clone studies hard and grows up to become very religious and becomes a priest. Does the minister not have a soul? Will God disown the minister? Who is to cast the first stone? Is the "Will" of God the same as the "Will" of the clone?




posted on Aug, 16 2003 @ 03:06 PM
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Creating a body is nothing more than putting together a recipe. Human's can't create the soul. I would think that even a clone would have a soul, or it just wouldn't be alive.



posted on Aug, 16 2003 @ 03:07 PM
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That is really fascinating. A real head spinner.

Ok, according to christians, the soul and life comes from god. Since people are created by natural events between mom and dad, the body made by the hand of god and such. So, people are born with souls.

What of creations by man though? A clone is the creation of man, does god put a soul into that? Technically, by christian standards, your soul is what makes you alive, so.if a clone is born and lives, does this mean that god will give the clone a soul anyway?

I am reminded of the Jewish myth of the golem: a creature that is a body without a soul, the opposite of the ghost, which is a soul without a body. Really deep stuff when you get into that area of Jewish Mystiscism.



posted on Aug, 16 2003 @ 03:58 PM
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I believe all living entities are controlled by a soul, although the souls controlling mites are surely less advanced than the ones controlling human bodies (or any other intelligent organism for that matter).

So if the clone was alive, I would say yes, he does have a soul. Is it of the same class as those controlling non-cloned humans? Who can say?



posted on Aug, 16 2003 @ 04:00 PM
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When someone is cloned, the pyhsical side is copied not the mind and soul. I don't think a clone has a soul. To be honest, im not really sure because i have never really thought about it. I'll do a google search and see if there is anything theories on it.



posted on Aug, 16 2003 @ 04:03 PM
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very interesting find people

www.globalchange.com...

a video explaining if clones have souls. a must watch



posted on Aug, 16 2003 @ 04:17 PM
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I think the Golem of the Kabbalah(?) teachings is symbolic of one who is real base and totally disregards the spiritual; while a ghost could be symbolic of one who is real spiritual and totally disregards the physical. Zen Master Taisen Deshimaru tells us to not totally disregard the physical and 'be like ghosts'; but to have a balance of the physical and mental/spiritual.

Do clones have souls? Well; if they have feelings then they have a soul. If they're alive then they have a spirit.



ONE

[Edited on 16-8-2003 by Tamahu]



posted on Aug, 16 2003 @ 04:18 PM
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Tamahu go on the link i posted and view the video with a theory. Its very interesting



posted on Aug, 16 2003 @ 04:28 PM
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The clone is made and is physically identical to how Will looked when he was young. All Natural with no cosmetic surgery. The clone studies hard and grows up to become very religious and becomes a priest. Does the minister not have a soul? Will God disown the minister? Who is to cast the first stone? Is the "Will" of God the same as the "Will" of the clone?


Its been awhile since I've seen a good argument based in ethics. Thanks for bringing this up!

I would say that the clone does have a soul because one cannot tell the difference, using merely our senses, between a real human and a human clone.

Behaviorally, they likely act exactly the same as a regular human. The energy that motivates the behavioral process is coming from the same source. A person's "soul" is an isolated instance of a universally existing energy.

Thus, the clone's behaviors (studying hard, becoming a priest) are based on the clone's free will, which is a critical component of this source.

If it walks like a duck, and quacks like a duck, its a duck.



posted on Aug, 16 2003 @ 04:32 PM
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I think humans shouldn't be cloned because humans shouldn't play god. Creating humans for couples who can't have child might be seen as ok, but developing a child for medical research is wrong. Humans are not here to play god.



posted on Aug, 16 2003 @ 04:37 PM
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I didn't watch the whole thing but didn't he say that the creation of a clone goes through the same process as an identical twin although the process is unatural?(but the same nonetheless)

Let's not get into the ethics of cloning because this is about if they have 'souls' or not.



ONE



posted on Aug, 16 2003 @ 05:06 PM
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I vote yes that a clone would have a soul.



posted on Aug, 16 2003 @ 08:03 PM
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The notion of a being or "life" having a "soul" has been around since antiquity.
My understanding is that the "soul" is the life of the body; the essence of one's being.
From my limited perspective:
Where there is no life, there is no soul.
Where there is no soul, there is no grace.
Where there is no grace, there is no love.
Where there is no love, there is no God.
Where there is no God, there is no life.
I believe the "soul" to be eternal and returns or merges with God upon one's death.
The "soul" has been connected to one's subconscious, superconscious, id, spirit, etc. It has been thought that one's "soul" connects one's physical body to one's spirit. That the spirit knows what we are doing, but we do not know what the spirit is doing. That we exist on or in multiple manifestations.
Thus, I believe the clone, being created by man, just as a child is created by the union of man and woman, would have a "soul."

regards
seekerof



posted on Aug, 16 2003 @ 08:14 PM
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Originally posted by MKULTRA
If it walks like a duck, and quacks like a duck, its a duck.




MK

Yes, but does a duck have a 'soul'? Really?

I think there is more to me than the electrochemical activity that will be switched off when my brain dies. We all hold out that hope. But we might be wrong.

The closest I have come to an understanding of this is feeling the palpable energy of dying people, and knowing what it is that they are seeing. But this could be a totally internal sensory experience.

Not one of us knows whether the energy leaves the corporeal form and remains integral. Many pretend to know and many are paid to pretend to know.

If you can show me that your walking talking quacking duck soul could inhabit the clone made out of my cells, I would take it, as I've always enjoyed Donald Duck as a character and I can do a decent impersonation.



posted on Aug, 16 2003 @ 10:07 PM
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Actually MA several cultures acknowledge that all life has a soul, this includes animals and plants (The fundamental aspect of reincarnation takes this into
consideration). While in the case of plants what if often regarded as a soul is more in respect to all plants.

One way of presenting this issue of a living being spirituality is by tuning the situation around. The cause of the cells forming life is inherent to elements under the right conditions, those conditions being related to environment.

The cause of why this is possible is related to physical structures and or aspects of those structures, inherent in much smaller components of the elements in question (i.e....carbon).

One point of confusion in respect to this argument is in regard to the issue of one celled life. If a one celled animal has a soul then how can a multi-cellular life form have only one soul as well?

My response to this question is that the soul is inherently oriented (perceptually) to its existence as a whole. As such, when two or more one celled animals unite towards a common goal (survival) the souls unite forming one.

Yes, a clone has a soul.

Any thoughts?



posted on Aug, 17 2003 @ 03:49 AM
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Personally I believe both the mind and soul are connected. One defines who you are, the other establishes your spiritual strength.
In the instance you discribed I would say yes the clone would have a soul. But only as he has spent his life growing and developing it. Had the situation been different, for instance the clone been made as a backup incase of terminal injury, and kept in storage until needed, then I would say it would not have a soul.
I think one's soul and mind are grown, not given. Both your enviroment and upbringing will define who you are, and your mind. If you take up a religion then it will influence the develpment of your soul, but you could attain the same develpment by living a full life.
As for what happens when you die? I think it relies upon the strength of one's soul. If you have grown as a person, then you may have the strength to come to terms with what has happened, and continue to "live" in some way.



posted on Aug, 17 2003 @ 07:36 AM
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The clone is made and is physically identical to how Will looked when he was young


In this, you've answered your own question. Sure, he may be physically identical, but he still has an independent mind, and ideas, etc. Of course he has a "soul". You could even argue this from a religious standpoint. Sure, one can say that a clone is "made by man", but it isn't true. The pieces are there by nature (i.e. egg, sperm, etc.), man simply put them together, and alter it somewhat.... The "soul" can be argued to reside in the origin material created by nature. Thus, you needn't go against "God" to clone. Of course, it's rather odd that with such a profound issue, the omnipotent God didn't address it when dictating the bible to man, huh? Well, that's probably because the bible didn't come from a God, but from man. A God could have risen above such limitations of current thinking... Then of course, one will argue, "but man couldn't comprehend it then....blah, blah...." A true God would simply answer, "Don't question me, just write it stupid!"



posted on Aug, 17 2003 @ 08:10 AM
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Originally posted by Gazrok
...Sure, one can say that a clone is "made by man", but it isn't true. The pieces are there by nature (i.e. egg, sperm, etc.), man simply put them together, and alter it somewhat.... The "soul" can be argued to reside in the origin material created by nature. Thus, you needn't go against "God" to clone. Of course, it's rather odd that with such a profound issue, the omnipotent God didn't address it when dictating the bible to man, huh? Well, that's probably because the bible didn't come from a God, but from man...


Spoken quite well. Let me add to this same idea by asking a question...

When has man ever actually created life from nothing?
Because if this so called "New Life" came from anything other than nothing, then it was already there to begin with and man only changed it somehow.

In learning of the Tao one might suggest that the creation of life or creation of something from nothing has already happened and that from that point on there is nothing left to create yet infinite ways for that creation to be experienced.



posted on Aug, 17 2003 @ 08:13 AM
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Simple answer.....we haven't ever.....



posted on Aug, 17 2003 @ 08:16 AM
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Well, I do not believe that this will be answered until the first human clone can be observed.

THEN the question becomes, can we sense others' souls? Will it be obvious to us, detectable by us, if the clone has no soul?





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