Debating about debates

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posted on Aug, 7 2003 @ 12:10 AM
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This belongs either here, or Chit Chat, or in the Debate Forum (where I don't think we have the approval to post unless we are participating or voting).

I am saving dragonrider some work and highlighting some things. I enjoyed watching the debate tournament and all the skills on display.

And some funny things happened on the way.

1. OIMD, who won the first semi-final, has no opponent for the final as David is GONE and Real Flight may be GONE as he defaulted his semi-final to David.

2. OIMD, if you are the winner (by default or otherwise), let me be the first to congratulate you!

3. Of 14 scheduled debates so far, 8 were decided by vote (including 1 incomplete and voted on) and 6 by default (that would increase to 7 defaults out of 15 if the debate final went that way).

4. Of 17 entrants (including OIMD who took AV's spot in the 2nd round), 8 went out by default.

5. 9 entrants (OIMD, Quicksilver, JediMaster, John Bull1, Illmatic67, dragonrider, ilovepizza, NinjaOfTheNight and John Nada) all went as far as they could in completed debates.


Why was there such a high default rate amongst members who were keen enough to start? Debating is obviously tougher and more time consuming than some would have thought (or, of course, there are unforeseen things that arise....)

Will there be a Final?




posted on Aug, 7 2003 @ 10:54 PM
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William

1. Please don't forget to fix this in your (humongously) busy schedule soon.

2. I will post the post to end all posts on the issue of 'Trust and Distrust' from wherever I am in the world this Sunday.




posted on Aug, 8 2003 @ 11:01 PM
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Hmmnn,

I want to talk about this issue, but don't know how I can do so without sounding like a jerk...

1. I, at first, didn't want to get into the tournament because I didn't feel like I had the time to keep up with the schedule. However, once I was in, I stayed up every night to get my well-researched replies in on time. Though I was not in the first round, I believe that all of my subsequent posts were of reasonably high quality. In the same light, I believe many of the other challengers worked hard to get their arguments together. ...So, just because some participants were thrown out of ATS doesn't mean that all the work everyone else did should be nullified.

2. I was not a substitute because AV 'defaulted'. AV specifically said that he would not debate D-R because he thought the topics were rigged, that D-R was unbeatable, and that, as an abductee, that he could never feel right 'disproving' aliens. As such, he withdrew from the contest, D-R ASKED for an opponent, and I entered the race (keep in mind that I believe that I had a CE3 experience myself, as a child).

3. The 'core' of D-R's argument from the first round was carried over into our match. As such, I feel that I not only debated D-R on the question at hand, but on the previous, first-round one.

4.If I were to be granted the 'prize', either by default or some new 'lightning round'... I would use my new website to launch a publication dedicated to promoting the exchange of ideas among researchers and college students. My site, as it were, wouldn't be about my day at the park... It would, in some ways, carry on ATS' mission.

...Ok... These points are in no particular order, but i just wanted everyone to consider them before making a judgement. Personally, I would, obviously, be happy if I was considered the debate 'winner'... But I would also accept a system wherein all the debate participants voted on whether or not I earned the title (and the prize). Anyways, I hope I don't sound brash... as I am trying to be honest and forthright,

Jim, AKA 'OIMD'



posted on Aug, 8 2003 @ 11:28 PM
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OIMD

Good on you for expressing that.

The reason for me posting what I did, was to ensure the efforts of all involved were not summarily forgotten.

I put up this topic before dragonrider (Debate Co-ordinator) announced his departure. Now he has gone, there needs to be admin intervention.

I think the Final or No Final decision would be derived from the pre-arranged rules of the contest, and not out of a vote on this issue. The rules would have to be applied on an equivalent basis all throughout the contest.

I notice no response to the Topic yet, except a series of good valid explanations (and a new website cause) from the guy that is waiting on the outcome!

Good luck OIMD.



posted on Aug, 9 2003 @ 03:24 AM
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As far as I'm concerned OIMD is the Debate Tournament winner.

I think we are all still learning how to make this debate concept work.
I would like to see a number of changes to the format.

1/Shorten the debates further to 1 opening statement,3 posts,1 closing statement,No rebutal.Therefore the debate should be completed within a week easily.

2/OIMD is declared ATS Debate Champion(Perhaps with a championship belt like the ribbon added above his avatar)

3/4 new poster are chosen to compete for the right to challenge OIMD for the belt.There should be no problem in finding 4 members who pair off into 2 debates the winners debate and the winner is declared the official challenger.This is similar to how Chess world champion challengers are chosen.

4/1 weeks break in between each round.

5/7,9,or 11 Judges should be chosen.(not so sure about this)

6/Careful choice of debate topics.(not as easy as it sounds)

I do like the debate concept and I'd like to see it work.By formatting it in the above way the Champion does not have to be debating everytime only once a month or so.Whereas challengers must only debate twice before debating for the championship.Supply for a place as one of the 4 will ensure that if 1 does default in the opening round there will be no shortage of reserves to take the defaulters place.Whereas a poster is unlikely to default in the match to decide the Challenger or for the belt itself.

I don't know if that makes sense.But there you go.

JB1



posted on Aug, 10 2003 @ 08:39 AM
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I just want to point out that from a newbies perspective these debates are really cool. They esp. promote crictical thinking when the debate from both sides is well written and articulate.

one thing you could do during the 4/1 week breaks is make the next topic known to the two debaters. This way they can research at leisure without having to debate AND research at the same time. I suspect that might why the default rate was so high.

Also you can take suggestions for the topic in athread, that why you don't have to think as much.

cheers
ktpr





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