Shall we discuss the "Taking Back of Above Top Secret"?

A hale and heartfelt hello from your one-thousandth member of long ago! Long has it been since I felt compelled to poise fingers over keyboard and submit my humble mutterings. But I can assure you, my good friends, that your fine contributions have graced my monitor on a near-daily basis.

Recently, however, I find myself taken aback over the tone and temperament of what is seen in your discussions. And likewise, I lament for what seems to be a forgotten idea, collaboration.

I presume that we lucky few who frequent these fora with our thoughts and ideas do so for want of answers. We search for answers here, rather than elsewhere, because of the amazing potential for collaboration in our search.

So, your humble and oft silent old-timer would like to ask... are you happy this way? And if not, how can we who are concerned take back Above Top Secret to the spirit of collaboration that gave it birth?



(Sorry for the use of a moniker for a "movement" that may have some odd memories, but it seems appropriate, if not as a cheap means for which to attract your attention.)

However what is this about, some clarity is in need. One must be a bit more clear or further replies from others may not follow as required.

Winston, your insights are always timely and welcomed.

Good to see you again.

Hiya, Winston.
Good to see you again.

ADVISOR,

Oh dear... I do apologize if my presentation has caused you alarm (I don't think that bomb under your arm implies you're happy to see me!).

I really don't "require" replies as such. I hope for some replies that might help examine the temperament of these fine fora.

Perhaps, as one who is deep in the "trenches" so to speak (a pun for your weapons), it is difficult to take a step back and reflect. I know such a back-step may be impossible for myself. But from one who reads often and says little, there is a concerning change.

I do desire in the utmost to avoid dramatic episodes from the pointing of fingers, so I hope not to engage in example lists of threads. I hope it shall suffice to say there appears to be far too much effort engaged in the dismantling of each other, than the dismantling of media-super-power deception.

Perhaps my simplistic observation is in error, if so, I shall be pleased to move along. If it is not, I hope to engage in conversation and learn how this came to pass. Ideally, understanding may give birth to a solution.

Is this another mod pseudonym masquerade game like the General stuff?

where are we going, and why am I in this handbasket?

If it is, I am unaware of it.

Mr. Smith, I can grasp the concept your trying to nudge at. Perhaps if you offered a small list, others will see your idea more readily and also do such in kind.

In addition, pay no mind to the weapons I sport. The use of such will only be done after any opposing forces use theirs first.

Winston it's nice to see you again. ATS can never be the way it was. From it's birth it has grown like a child changing in many ways. The old ATS was different and I too wish it was still that way. Like with an adult if you were to start acting as a child, you would be called immature.

The changing times also change the people, with war, terrorism and all the things going on around us, it's hard to be humble. So ATS has grown up with thousands of members and new forums and rules. How can ATS staff control the members? They can not, all the staff can do is ban those that continue to disrupt the forums.

Taking ATS back is not a choice you have. I wish it was at times, I really do miss the old days. What ATS needs is to loosen up and council those who get too dramatic and involved in a topic. Give those who are under stress a chance to relax. Then there are those who may never change. Those who think they are superior and know everything. They need to be counciled also. I know ATS is not a day care, but bannings aren't always the best way to go.

Like with what the general was trying to do. He also wanted to return ATS to a better place, but he did it in the wrong way. He should of asks us wiminz how to go about it. Father doesn't always know whats best.

Originally posted by Winston Smith
I do desire in the utmost to avoid dramatic episodes from the pointing of fingers, so I hope not to engage in example lists of threads. I hope it shall suffice to say there appears to be far too much effort engaged in the dismantling of each other, than the dismantling of media-super-power deception.

Well Winston, I'm been asking the same questions you are. I'm going to go out on a limb and hope that I do not start a fresh drama which will cause this thread to be deleted.

Two words. Skeptic OverBroad.

What happened? The threads disappeared, the members disappeared. I asked if it was a joke, got no response.

I totally understand the staff's need to diffuse a full blown flamewar. But could you just U2U those involved so we know what is going on, how to proceed? You may feel that those involved don't really need to know. But I'm sitting here thinking I took something as a joke that I should have taken seriously, and stepped into something I shouldn't have. I'm sure I'm not the only one.

Sweeping it under the rug does not make people think it never happened... it only makes them more curious and more apprehensive.

Just my opinion, please understand.

It would appear, Winston, that Soma has worked wonders and all is well with the new netizens.

That's speaking from 1969, not 1984 - your own perspective is most interesting.

Originally posted by djohnsto77
Is this another mod pseudonym masquerade game like the General stuff?

That's paranoia and not sound judgment.

The real conspiracy of fear and terror and masquerade is in the performance of the Bush administration - the most criminal gang ever to inhabit the Whitehouse. Look that way!

Meanwhile more Soma required for the rounded midpoint between 69 and 84.

Ycon

Thank you for jumping in with your lucid analysis.

I hold no illusion that we might return to the "good old days" of ATS yore. I was there, and while they are indeed old, many were not so good.

No, if that is your take-away from my musings, I apologize for my lack of clarity. Perhaps my aversion to the pointing of an example finger is part of it.

Instead, I seek for the population and topics of ATS to continue to grow and find new concerns within our saturated media-super-power environment of deception and deflection. For there is more now to cause concern than perhaps ever before. And with this continued progression, I'd like bring back collaboration.

My query, "How can we who are concerned take back Above Top Secret to the spirit of collaboration that gave it birth" was not in the parlance of "rewind" but of regaining possession of these fora in a spirit of collaboration.


Mr. Avatar... I hope there are fewer than seven pieces to this puzzle.

There are, as you have already (most probably) observed, two lots of seven in the numerical component.

I remember when ATS used to be full of weirdos. It was great.

There's still weirdos in certain forums, and that's not a bad thing, but ATS is now more mainstream.

I don't know if that's a good thing or not.

[QUOTE]That's paranoia and not sound judgment. [/QUOTE]

It's obvious it's admin- else the thread(s) would have been locked and/or trashed. Quite honestly, I'm dissapointed the intelligent membership here fell for it.

You twice now allude to the media-saturation in which we live. I think this is key to moving ATS to the next exciting level. A few times before I have pointed out that the real conspiracies are not those stale dinosaurs of the past that can be Googled and read about for hours leaving the reader not much more than another dedicated Googler, but the conspiracies taking place around us that are being blurred and obfuscated by the really disturbing media we have today.

Two examples taking place right now:

1. The weird coincidence of the Burmese government laying claims that the Thai's and a "super power" are behind the recent large bombings in Burma. This right on the heels of Montgomery Paisley returning from two years of unexplained, absence that at least two governments have made less than truthful statements about.

2. The whole Koran-in-the-Toilet fiasco. The Taliban are trying to raise a Jihad, large numbers of people killed in the past week over the claim, and now we have absolutely no clue whether Newsweek barfed a burrito or if they have been forced to retract the story.

There is so much going on that we are not looking up and taking notice of, and if we could figure out how to collaborate and look into these things, what a ride we would have! Instead, the board seems to have moved to a board intended for the discussion of contraversial issues but a board that is plagued with - don't talk about contraversial issues!

So we're left to discuss ancient history, drag back in the old data, arguing just to the point of possibly becoming contraversial, and then all go "hmmm....I can't tell. Can you?"

*sigh*

On another note we have some glimmers of light where people are getting out and looking for the data in the real world. Dulcimer took his camera and went on his own investigation and brought us back some awesome pics. Amuk has been going on his paranormal trips and coming back to share real-time experiences. These are the strange, unexplainable realities around us that we are missing by spending way too much time trying to control one another more than we try to look around and see what might not be too kosher in the real world.

But it seems there is always a certain portion of people who want to take this board as reality and far too serious. A group of people who want to power-monger - even in a place where there is no power short of the owner of the board! I don't get it! And these days - it feels like there have been a much greater percent of these odd individuals causing drama and mayhem both in public and behind people's backs.

I keep coming back here in hopes that the majority of intelligent level-headed members will gravitate toward the exciting frontiers of undiscovered hidden messiness and cover-ups that are being thrown down all around us and leave behind this senseless B.S...and take ATS - not back - but forward.



[edit on 5-16-2005 by Valhall]

Originally posted by Winston Smith

My query, "How can we who are concerned take back Above Top Secret to the spirit of collaboration that gave it birth" was not in the parlance of "rewind" but of regaining possession of these fora in a spirit of collaboration.

Winston, let me ask you how you would go about bringing back the collaboration of ATS birth?

How would you change the members to bring this about?

How was collaboration different back then?

Originally posted by Ycon

Winston, let me ask you how you would go about bringing back the collaboration of ATS birth?

How would you change the members to bring this about?

How was collaboration different back then?
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~


Good questions Ycon............

Hello Winston Smith nice to meet you..........YES the MEDIA-SUPERPOWER is beyond overwhelming. I feel small in the face of it and wonder what ( ) I can actually DO beyond shoot the television sets........

One of the reasons I haunt the boards.......

So I am open for some good suggestions as well as education on said subject.
Do tell more.....................




[edit on 16-5-2005 by theRiverGoddess]

Staff here always get upset when people complain about the way the board is run and repeat the mantra of "This is a PRIVATELY owned board, etc, etc", and rightly so. Yet when the same staff become saddened by the direction that ATS is being dragged in by its huge, increasingly bipartisan membership, they come out with an eccentric, alter-ego username and attempt to rally the members back to ATS's roots with witty satire. While this may have worked in the past, it's not going to work now with 30,000+ ATS members. Most members either see it as a joke, completely ignore it, or get their panties in a bunch because they don't understand the point of the satire. I even saw a mob of members gang up on one of the senior admin in chat and start railing on him because they were angry about GeneralDilemma. Unbelievable!

I wasn't here for the "Take back ATS" days, but from what I hear it was a ballsy initiative, assuming it entailed mods being assertive. If you lot want to see change in ATS, you're going to have to strap on your cojones and MAKE some changes, whiners and resistant members be damned, because it's not going to happen naturally. If it's a privately owned board, then stop pussyfooting around and act like it. Tell people what you expect of ATS. Delete threads and posts that are complete bollocks. Make mission statements and direction statements clear and cold cut. Initiate research/investigation and invite members to participate. Sure, you'll get a reduction in membership as the crusts are cut off the bread, you might even have an uprising of disgruntled members, but if you want ATS to move forward and develop, then this will be a necessary by-product of that. If all you want is to increase ATS's membership count and increase the topboards rankings, or you don't have time for all that, then carry on with the diplomacy. We newer members look to you more experienced lot for leadership. But lately all that seems to be happening is the increase of an "Us vs Them" atmosphere, with admin on the defensive, and members whining about their rights to do this and rights to have that.

I think you all do a fantastic job and I know you're volunteers. You can read my comments in this post as criticism if you so wish, a natural reaction I guess since I'm on the member side of the fence, but that is not what it is. I merely have high ideals for the future of ATS and ATSNN, and I think it can happen if you toughen up a little, if members smarten up a little, and if members and staff are working together for the same goals. ATS has become a flailing behemoth and it needs whipping into shape.

My major focus at ATS until recently was ATSNN. A while ago, I was advocating for more proactive investigation into government cover-ups the likes of which Valhall has produced, more online investigative journalism, the consideration of sources other than corporate media, and less regurgitating of mainstream news which, if you have two brain cells to rub together, you know is controlled by big business and big government. Consequently I had one or two moderators and several members call me a complainer. But then I see members creating threads whining how their thread was moved and everyone's like, "HELL YEAH!" I guess it's hard to see the difference between immature whining versus advocating for positive development of an information resource and community that you care greatly about.

ATSNN needs dedicated editors. Get rid of the voting system. Have editors allocate research and investigation tasks to reporter members, or teams of members. Five members researching hammer-and-tong on the Montgomery Paisley story might be able to dig something up. ATSNN can be a leader in this new field, but instead it is being led around by the nose and wallowing in United States topical issues and runaway brides. Leaving the voting up to members was a nice novelty, but the novelty has worn off. I would much rather see editors or experts telling contributors that their article is not suitable for ATSNN or needs revision, than some dude who wandered into terroranalysis and didn't like the story. If you don't have enough staff, then make GradyPhilpott, Sanctum, and djohnsto77 and other major contributors editors. It would also be great to see a stronger effort and emphasis placed on the research forum, along the same lines as what I mentioned for ATSNN but more academically flavoured.

This is all just my .02. I don't claim to have the answers and I don't claim to be completely guilt-free of some of the things that are detracting from ATS's quality. Thank you for the reminders of what ATS should be striving for, and I for one will do my best to contribute to those goals.

[edit on 2005/5/17 by wecomeinpeace]

Nothing like fresh fodder to hit the beaches, ready to sacrifice themselves in a hail of posts. The General is ready to lead such a charge, a charge that will live in BTS, if not infamy.

Pack a toothbrush.

Fall in.