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The Hill Abduction Case

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posted on May, 4 2005 @ 09:18 AM
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THE HILL ABDUCTION CASE

DISCLAIMER: This is a long post…
Much of the following can be found in various books, and numerous accounts on the web, regarding the case. I’ll include links as needed, but in most cases, the information is assembled as I have gleaned and verified through a variety of sources. Note that this case relies heavily of course on witness testimony, but there is some other evidence that makes it extremely compelling.

While not the first modern account of alien abduction, the Hill case was the first such case to be thoroughly investigated and documented, and predated the idea of such accounts being in the public mindset. Up to this point, most accounts of UFOs involved seeing them in the sky, or even more rarely, landed, and even a few accounts of seeing the occupants. But, late on September 19th through the early 20th, 1961, a truly amazing encounter took place.


Betty and Barney Hill (with their dog Delsey)

The Hills had gone to Niagara Falls and Montreal for a few days’ vacation. They were on their way home to Portsmouth, New Hampshire, along Highway 3 through Lancaster. Just south of Lancaster, at about 10:15pm, Barney saw a light in the sky and pointed it out to Betty. They stopped the car to both look at the strange light, and also to allow their dog Delsey (a Dachsund) to do her business. They had binoculars for viewing the Falls, and Barney used them to observe the light.


Believe it or not, there doesn’t seem to be an online map showing the route they took, so I made one of my own, based on the route reported by the Hills, and indicating the locations where various events took place. I think it’s more helpful to see it than read it, so the map above should illustrate where they were, when an event occurred. I discontinued the route after the last event, as I do not have exact details as to the particular route the Hills took from Route 3 to then get to Portsmouth (since nothing happened then, it’s really not particularly important anyways).

They got back in the car, and continued home. Just north of Woodstock, the object had grown in size, and would often dart away to the west, and then come closer and closer.

At Indian Head, they stopped the car again, and again viewed the object through binoculars. Barney now saw a pancake-shaped object with multi-colored lights and rows of windows. It was huge, about a hundred feet across, and only about a couple hundred feet away. It was hovering about 50 feet off the ground. He went closer (at about a hundred feet), and could see occupants through the windows of the craft. He became frightened, and ran back to the car, where Betty was, started it, and quickly drove off. They no longer saw the light, but did hear a beeping sound.



Betty Hill: “…well first of all, they came out in Indian head area. They came out over the highway and they stopped and that's when Barney got out, with the binoculars to try and identify the craft. I mean, he'd been in the military in World War Two, he's puzzled”. - Betty Hill, in a taped interview with Peter Huston, Oct. 1, 1998



Barney Hill describing the craft

Some time later, they again heard the beeping sound, now at Ashland, about thirty five miles south of when they heard the previous beeping. They drove home to Portsmouth. Nothing else happened. They get home around 5am, which was a shock to them, as even allowing for stops, bathroom breaks for the dog, etc. they had thought to be home around 3am instead.

Concerned, Betty called her sister the next day (technically later that day, upon waking, Sept. 20th). Betty notices several highly polished circular areas on the car, and as mistakenly suggested to her by her sister, she takes a compass to check for radiation (this actually won’t work, but it was the suggestion Betty followed). However, she did find that the compass needle went erratic over these spots. Her sister then called the local police chief, who suggested contacting nearby Pease AFB, Portsmouth, NH, worried about possible radiation. They called the base, and after some reluctance from the answering officer, discussed the sighting (omitting the part about seeing the beings inside).

The next day (Sept. 21st), the Hills got a call from Major Paul Anderson, Intelligence Officer for the 100th Bomb Group, Pease AFB. The Hills had many friends on the base and would often meet them at the Officers’ Club on Friday nights. He asks Barney for more details, and eventually files a case for Bluebook, Case #100-1-61, as Pease AFB also had an unidentified radar contact after the Hill sighting, which follows:



1. Date: 20 Sep 61 [early morning]
2. Location; Lincoln, NH
3. Date-Time Group: Local 0001-0100 GMT: 20 0401-05002
4. Type of observation: Ground-visual Air intercept radar.
5. Photos: No
6. Source: Military
7. Length of observation: 30 min.
8. No. of objects: 1
9. Course: N

10. Brief summary of sighting: Continuous band of lights. Cigar-shaped at all times despite changes of direction. Wings seemed to appear fm main body. Described as V-shaped with red lights on tips: later wings appeared to extend further. Appeared about 45 deg. Varied direction abruptly and disappeared to north.

11. Comments: Both radar and visual sighting are probably due to conditions resulting from strong inversion which prevailed in area on morning of sighting (An inversion with visual characteristics? And of a ship with lights and wings? ! ). Actual source of light viewed is not known but it has all the characteristics of an advertising searchlight (between midnight and 1am, in 1961?). Radar probably was looking at some ground target due to strong inversion (a temperature inversion can take place in a perfectly clear sky). No evidence indicating objects were due to other than natural causes.

12. Conclusions: Optical condition [later changed to "inversion", and still later changed to "insufficient data" in Bluebook.](26:file)

www.nicap.org...

Betty and Barney believed they were doing their civic duty, reporting the object to the authorities. An important thing many skeptics seem to ignore here, is that the Hills did NOT contact any press or media about the sighting (at least what they thought was just a sighting at the time), and did not seek any publicity. They simply notified the authorities, as they believed they should have.

On Sept. 23rd, Barney Hill goes to the local library and finds on of Donald Keyhoe’s (of NICAP) books on UFOs. He takes down his address and on the 26th, Betty writes to Keyhoe in Washington, D.C., describing the sighting as remembered.


Donald Keyhoe, former 2nd Lt. In the Marines, and Naval aviator, former director of NICAP (National Investigations Committee on Aerial Phenomena).



Betty Hill: (remembering) “Oh... NICAP! I wrote to NICAP originally, because I was concerned, basically, with is it an outer space craft, what if, health-wise, and what had we been exposed to? What about cosmic rays? What about radiation? Those things. I was thinking of my health, but nobody had any answers. And that's how I wrote to NICAP, but then later, just very soon after that, like three weeks later, we started getting phone calls from government agents. I mean top government people. The top people of the United States government. White house. National Security Agency. NASA. And from that moment on, I would say... how many years... five or six years anyway. They were coming here and bringing other scientists with them. So actually we didn't have any contacts with UFO organizations. It was all strictly government.” – Same taped interview cited earlier


On Sept. 30th, Betty starts having very vivid and disturbing dreams. They continue for about 5 days, but then cease.

On October 21st, Walter Webb, an investigator for NICAP, and astronomer with the Hayden Planetarium in New York, arrives and interviews Hills. Walter was contacted by Richard Hall (NICAP’s Secretary) through the mail, as relayed from Keyhoe. He interviews them for several hours, but Betty does not tell him about her dreams. Barney details what he saw of the craft, and through the windows, including one figure who appeared to be some kind of “leader”.

A few days later, Betty again starts having strange dreams. Webb’s report goes to NICAP. He notes that he was very impressed with the testimony, after initially being very skeptical. About this time, another strange event occurred. Some earrings that Betty had lost that night during the events, had turned up.



Betty Hill: “They took my blue earings. And about six weeks later, Barney and I were up in the mountains, thinking if we could find the spot, where we had... been stopped, we could remember what happened, and since we went and came home, right there in the kitchen, a pile of leaves, and in the pile of leaves were my blue earrings.” – From the previously cited taped interview


In the beginning of November, two gentlemen named Robert Hohman and C.D. Jackson (after discussing the Hills over lunch with Keyhoe the previous month) write the Hills asking for another interview. (note that many accounts by researchers do not include the names, as they were unable to find them, they are often stated as just “two writers”. Betty since learned that C.D. Jackson was an assistant to then President Eisenhower..when meeting the Hills, he only claimed to be a scientist.) They arrange an interview on Nov. 25th. Also visiting that day, is Major James McDonald, a long-time friend of the Hills, and Air Force Intelligence officer. They spend hours talking, and eventually Major McDonald suggests hypnosis, but doesn’t know any therapists to refer them to, as the Hills begin to worry if they were hallucinating, and if that was indicative of any medical problems.

The Hills put the matter behind them for some time. This is an important note, and shows that publicity was the last thing on their minds. They were more concerned about how this affected them, and getting to the bottom of it. In March of the next year (1962), Betty writes to a doctor that was recommended to her by a colleague. The Hills see him, and relate the incident to him. He recommends waiting to see if the problems go away of their own accord. No therapy is done. That summer, Barney goes to see a psychiatrist about his anxiety, but only briefly mentions the sighting.

In September of ’62, the Hills were invited to a “UFO Study Group” to talk about their experiences. Unknown to the Hills, someone tapes their account. Betty talks about her dreams, and this is caught on tape. I mention this only because this is later how the story is introduced to the press, not by the Hills, and they aren’t happy with it.

In September of the next year (1963), the Hills discuss the sighting with their Church group. Captain Ben Swett, of Pease AFB, explained hypnosis was a hobby of his, but he and Major McDonald recommend seeing a professional to get to the bottom of it.



Betty Hill: “Barney started going to him. .... Talking about his early childhood and all. And then one day, he happened to mention to Doctor Stevens that we'd been up in the mountains looking for the place where we had seen the UFO, so Doctor Stevens started picking up on this, and he was telling him, and he recognized amnesia. So he knew Doctor Simon. So he referred both Barney and me to Doctor Simon in Cambridge”. – From the same taped interview mentioned previously.


In December of ’63, Barney’s doctor (Dr. Stevens) refers the Hills to the highly accredited Dr. Benjamin Simon, a well-known Boston psychiatrist (John Hopkins University, former Chief of Neuropathy and Executive Officer of Mason General Hospital for the Army…their main psychiatric center during WWII).


Dr. Benjamin Simon

The sessions with Dr. Simon begin in January the next year (1964). During these sessions, the details of what really happened that night start to emerge….and would eventually be published in a book by John Fuller, “The Interrupted Journey”.

Dr. Simon chose to use regressive hypnosis, meant to get at the source of the problem, which he diagnosed as anxiety. He began with Barney (as he was the one referred to Simon), and later involved Betty. After nearly six months, the true story of what happened would be stranger than any fiction.

Under hypnosis, the Hills related that at one point in their trip home, the car had stalled, as the craft landed on the road in front of their car, forming a roadblock. The beings emerged from the craft, and then took the Hills aboard. (No, I’ve seen no accounts of what, if anything, they did with the dog) The Hills described the beings as "....bald-headed alien beings, about five foot tall, with greyish skin, pear shaped heads and slanting cat-like eyes."

The beings, as described by the Hills, a sketch done based on their descriptions:





From the TV Movie, “The UFO Incident”, starring James Earl Jones and Estelle Parsons. Provided only as a visual.

According to their (independent) statements while under, they were each taken into separate rooms for medical examinations. Skin, hair, and nail samples were taken, Betty had a long needle inserted into her navel (the beings explained this was a pregnancy test…this predates wide modern use or knowledge of such a procedure by the way
), and Barney recalled having to provide a semen specimen. Barney relates that the aliens were surprised when his dentures came out and were replaced.


Again, from the TV Movie, provided only as a visual.



Betty Hill: “… so he got out to look at the craft, to try to identify this craft, this is when he saw the people and panicked and ran back to the car. And we turned off and 30 miles south they're standing in the middle of our road blocking our way, stopped the car, got out, took us through the path in the woods, where the craft was on the ground. Took us on board. In separate rooms, gave each of us a simple form of physical examination, were puzzled why Barney's teeth were removable but mine were not. Showed me a book, which I looked at briefly, looking for pictures. And.. uh.. showed me a star map of where they were from and uh... when I'm leaving the craft, I'm telling the leader... incidentally there were eleven of them, they were leaving the craft and I'm saying to the leader, "This is the most wonderful experience of my life. I hope you'll come back. I got a lot of friends who would love to meet you." – From the previously cited taped interview


Betty asked the aliens where they were from. In reply, the beings showed her a holographic projection of a map (this predates the hologram too, by the way, or at least public knowledge of it). Under hypnosis, she drew a map of what she was shown:


Betty’s hand-drawn map while under.



"On Aug. 4, 1969, Betty Hill discussed the star map with me. Betty explained that she drew the map in 1964 under posthypnotic suggestion. It was to be drawn only if she could remember it accurately, and she was not to pay attention to what she was drawing - which puts it in the realm of automatic drawing. This is a way of getting at repressed or forgotten material and can result in unusual accuracy. She made two erasures showing her conscious mind took control part of the time." "Betty described the map as three-dimensional, like looking through a window. The stars were tinted and glowed. The map material was flat and thin (not a model), and there were no noticeable Lenticular lines like one of our three-dimensional processes. (It sounds very much like a reflective hologram.)"

Betty did not shift her position while viewing it, so we cannot tell if it would give the same three-dimensional view from all positions or if it would be completely three-dimensional. Betty estimated the map was approximately three feet wide and two feet high with the pattern covering most of the map. She was standing about three feet away from it. She said there were many other stars on the map but she only (apparently) was able to specifically recall the prominent ones connected by lines and a small distinctive triangle off to the left. There was no concentration of stars to indicate the Milky Way (galactic plane) suggesting that if it represented reality, it probably only contained local stars. There were no grid lines."
Marjorie Fish on her interview with Betty Hill

www.ufocasebook.com...

The larger bodies (stars) were larger because they were closer in the vantage point, Betty explained.



Astronomers at Ohio State University had a computer put them in their exact position out beyond the double star system of Zeta Reticuli 1 and Zeta Reticuli 2--220 trillion miles, 37 light years from earth, looking toward our sun. The computer duplicated with virtually no variation, the map of Betty Hill.


[img] www.ufocasebook.com...[/img]
Computer drawn rendition of vantage point and known stars

Many of the stars, and their colors, weren’t known at the time Betty drew the map. This made identifying the stars almost impossible in ’64. It wouldn’t be till years later, when Marjorie Fish, a school teacher and amateur astronomer, would see the match for it…in the double star system of Zeti-Reticuli.


Labelled starmap

Many skeptics are quick to point out, “oh, but these could be any random stars in the universe!”. That is where they are wrong. The important point is that these aren’t just random stars, they are mostly yellow stars, like our own (which, while not rare, are not the most common). Also, the lines of travel drawn are between these yellow stars (just like those of Zeti-Reticuli, and our own solar system). That kind of a coincidence is not random, nor even in the realm of probability. According to Betty, these beings were exploring stars similar to their own.

Getting back to the events, after the examinations were finished, the Hills were taken back to their car. Under hypnosis, they recall being given suggestions to forget about what happened, with the last thing they remembered was an orange glow disappearing into the sky.

In October of 1965, that tape I mentioned earlier (during the informal UFO discussion group), makes its way into a Boston newspaper (the Boston Herald Traveler to be precise), relating the tale of the Hill’s experience. This is the first time the story hits the media, and it was not the doing of the Hills, who then only came forward to correct some of the inaccuracies and untruths in such articles.

Dr. Simon concluded that the Hills were not fabricating their story. As the Hill case became more public knowledge, other researchers also contacted the Hills and investigated their claims. Dr. J. Allen Hynek, then Professor of Astronomy at Northwestern University, and later Bluebook consultant for the Air Force, was one such researcher.


Dr. J. Allen Hynek



"Under repeated hypnosis they independently revealed what had supposedly happened. The two stories agreed in considerable detail, although neither Betty nor Barney was privy to what the other had said under hypnosis until much later. Under hypnosis they stated that they had been taken separately aboard the craft, treated well by the occupants - rather as humans might treat experimental animals - and then released after having been given the hypnotic suggestion that they would remember nothing of that particular experience. The method of their release supposedly accounted for the amnesia, which was apparently broken only by counter-hypnosis.” – J. Allen Hynek, in his book, “The UFO Experience”


Another researcher who spent long hours with the Hills, was Dr. Stanton Friedman (former rocket scientist). He had similar conclusions after talking with the Hills.


Dr. Stanton Friedman



"By no stretch of the imagination could anyone who knows them conclude that they were nuts," he (Friedman) emphasizes. The Hills had been interviewed and questioned by others scientists and investigators; some under hypnosis, and all are in agreement on one important fact. The Hills did NOT make their story up, and the events put forward are based upon some REAL event. Although Barney and Betty were in an interracial marriage, which unfortunately cast an unfavorable shadow on them, we must remember that Betty had a Master's Degree in social work, and Barney served on the governor of New Hampshire's Civil Rights Commission. Both of them were well-respected by those who knew them or worked with them. What benefit they could have gained from such an elaborate hoax I cannot imagine. Although many so-called abductees have lost their livelihoods because of their stories, the Hills did not, and remained involved in previous activities to the extent that the interruptions of what happened allowed them.

www.ufocasebook.com...

Barney died in 1969 due to many health problems (such as ulcers, high blood pressure, etc., which prompted his doctor visits in the first place). Barney had done some interviews before his death, and Betty had done hundreds of interviews before her death in Oct. 2004, at the age of 85. The Hills had numerous other recalled abduction incidents after the initial event, and were also the first such account of multiple abductions.


Betty Hill in later years

Betty had even taken lie detector tests, such as the one administered by Ed Gelb, former President of the American Polygraph Association.



The polygraph results left no doubt that Betty Hill sincerely believed that she saw that star map aboard a saucer when she was abducted. It doesn't prove that it didn't come to her in a dream, or that it wasn't just a series of mental images that popped into her mind during hypnotic regression. In other words, her truthful result didn't prove that the abduction truly happened. However, it was strong evidence that Betty Hill didn't just "make up" her story - it was no hoax. She believed it happened. And she believed the details of the star map were an accurate representation of what the aliens showed her.


Since all of this, of course, skeptics (especially one Martin Kottmeyer) have tried to downplay the Hill’s story. One of the suggestions they offer is that the Hills concocted their story after watching an episode of the Outer Limits, called “Bellero Shield”. Nevermind the fact that the episode aired on February 10th, 1964, more than two years AFTER the Hill’s encounter! Ah, but the skeptics claim the book “Interrupted Journey” came out in 1966, so they still could be drawing from that episode.



Besides the fact that Betty claims she never saw such an episode, the Hills documented recollection of the beings (Oct. of '61) occurs BEFORE it aired (not to mention BOTH she and Barney recalled the same identical beings). Even the skeptics’ assertion that the Hills could have seen the episode and then interwoven this into the story during the hypnosis sessions doesn’t hold water, when one recalls that the one doing the hypnosis wasn’t just any doctor, but in all likelihood, probably THE most qualified such doctor in the country. Likewise, the beings in the episode are different than those described by the Hills.


Alien from the Outer Limits, “Bellero Shield”


Aliens described by the Hills

Of course, skeptics cannot attack the credentials of those who’ve professionally studied the case. Indeed, they are impeccable. Nor can one explain how a social worker with no background in astronomy, somehow depicts an accurate map showing a travel route between yellow stars, when some of those stars weren’t even known of at the time by professional astronomers, and only discovered later. (and of a constellation not even visible from her native hemisphere) Or how she described devices and procedures that hadn’t even been public knowledge at the time. Every professional scientist involved with the case agrees on one key point. The story was not a fabrication. Indeed, whether believer or skeptic, the Hill Abduction Case remains an intriguing mystery.





[edit on 8-9-2005 by Gazrok]




posted on May, 4 2005 @ 10:17 AM
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That's the problem with a long post, hehe... No comments?



posted on May, 4 2005 @ 10:22 AM
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Thumbs up Gaz!!

The Evidence is pointing to the abduction being through.

But what's frustrating is that skeptics get all credibility and are easily believed, even if their "debunkings" are as easily refuted as a child can put two Duplo LEGO blocks together.



posted on May, 4 2005 @ 10:28 AM
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Big
for you GAZ,

I have read up on the Hill case and everytime I have heard a debumker come along and try to discredit them, The "facts" theories that they use are extremely thin.

Example is the holographic star map debunking, Holography as you stated was an unknown tech. For Betty Hill to be able to accurately place the positions of the various stars is astronomical.

Even Spock would have difficulty in computing that



posted on May, 4 2005 @ 10:28 AM
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This is one of my favorite Gaz. As always you do excellent research. I haven't had a chance to read the whole thing, but I can't wait.



posted on May, 4 2005 @ 11:10 AM
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Excellent job, Gazrok.


I think the skeptics lost this in this case, as hard as they tried.

So did Betty say that the aliens were from a planet orbiting one of the Zeta Reticula binary stars? Or was it one of the other nearby stars? Maybe she didn't say definitively.

Thanks for the effort.



posted on May, 4 2005 @ 12:35 PM
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All of the accounts I've read stated she was told only that the star system pictured, with the two stars, was their home star system. Remember, she didn't know the stars' names, nor was she told. Only shown the image.



posted on May, 4 2005 @ 12:56 PM
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ahhh another great post in a long line of em


This is probally my favorite case outside roswell because there is evidence that cannot be debunked. People always want proof, to me the star map alone has always been proof. The statistical probability of the map is so minute that it would practically be zero that she guessed.



posted on May, 4 2005 @ 02:27 PM
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The starmap had originally attracted my attention to the case. I was surprised, and delighted, to also learn about the radar contacts in the area, and that like the inversion theory in '52, Bluebook went back and changed it (the Bluebook report of the radar contact and Barney's account)

The other big things being of course:

1. They didn't seek publicity, only explanation.
2. They informed the authorities ASAP.
3. Many in Washington seemed to be involved in the case early on, and before public knowledge of the case.
4. Their doctor doing the hypnosis wasn't just average in skill, he was one of THE most high authorities on hypnosis for repressed memory.
5. The amount of documentation of the case, and that it predates other such abductions or at least before they were in the public eye.

[edit on 4-5-2005 by Gazrok]



posted on May, 4 2005 @ 02:37 PM
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Thank you for all that information..
I do not know if this has been posted, but I studied that case in depth, and the one thing that makes it most credible, imo is that Betty was from an aristocratic new England lineage, and this type of publicity she did not need, as she once said on TV that being married to a black man was hard enough in those times, and she would not have embarassed her family with an alien hoax.
She always made me sure she was telling of a REAL occurence.



posted on May, 4 2005 @ 02:45 PM
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Thank you for all that information..


No problem. That's pretty much the prime reason I've been doing this series of posts, on what I think are some of the best or more interesting cases in the subject. There's a TON of info out there on them... Some good, some bad, but all of it seems scattered to the four winds... So, I decided to try and cram as much good corraborated info as possible in one place...



posted on May, 4 2005 @ 03:00 PM
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Loved the post! I have always been interested in the Hill case for many of the same reasons that you outlined above. Keep up the great work, as always



posted on May, 4 2005 @ 03:12 PM
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Kudos to James Earl Jones in the movie..
I was impressed by the scene in the hypnotis's office where he freaked out so much to realize what he was reliving, he was going to jump out the window, screaming....



posted on May, 4 2005 @ 03:14 PM
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I didn't thought the similarity of the Betty Hill drawing and the real star map was THIS big. This case is genuine, no doubt in my mind.



posted on May, 4 2005 @ 03:47 PM
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I read a report just a few days ago (and can't find it now) that indicated that Betty (who did believe in UFOs) initially was the one saying they were abducted. Barney denied it.

He continued to deny it for at least 6 months while Betty insisted that it was true. She did win him over to her viewpoint after nearly a year.

Now... he wasn't claiming his mind was blank; he was claiming they were NOT kidnapped.

Carl Sagan (and others) on the "star map" (not as accurate as promoted):
www.skepticfiles.org...


Some of the points of the case (which later become part of mainstream UFO lore) are brand new -- in other words, no previous mention of aliens mentions these.

The big-eyed aliens never appeared in any other account until the Hills. After that, they suddenly become popular. But they DID appear in a movie that was released earlier:
www.csicop.org...

And take a look at THIS still photo from a much hyped movie of that year called "Earth VS the Flying Saucers"
lavender.fortunecity.com...

...both came out BEFORE the abduction.

Chip implants didn't show up until the Hills... but again, they appeared in a 1956 movie and the chip implant was part of the ad:
www.scifidimensions.com...

There's at least one report that the "alien abduction" was a coverup for a racially motivated attack. I find that pretty weak, but there are a lot of things in the Betty Hill story that don't match up.

The navel needle probe is one of them. All that's behind a navel is scar tissue and intestine, and you can get to the intestines easier elsewhere on the body. You can't get to the uterus via that route (she says, having survived about 4 rounds of amniocentesis. It's not fun.)

I think something happened, but I don't think it was little grey aliens.

Edited to add this link, which was the one I was looking for:
www.thetriangle.org...

Should also add that I believed the story when I first heard it -- UNTIL I saw the map. Then I disbelieved it.)


[edit on 4-5-2005 by Byrd]



posted on May, 4 2005 @ 03:54 PM
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I was hoping to get a good debunker viewpoint. I'll address the points you raised, gladly, but leaving work now, so likely tomorrow morning.

Thanks!



posted on May, 4 2005 @ 04:06 PM
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(g) given that we're both busy people, let's take it one point at a time! I don't want to work my way through long logic chains and I'm sure you might not have the time, either.

We could start with the star map, if you like, or Barney's failure to agree initially, or the "recovered memories" problems.



posted on May, 4 2005 @ 08:10 PM
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Great post Gazrok,

very informative, although speaking for myself I'm not sure what to believe about abductions in general anymore....

Byrd, makes/links to some interesting points to consider in this specific case,
however you have to admit we've read hundreds if not thousands of abduction accounts but which are real? are any of them real?


It would be so easy to make up such things right? the ATS forums are proof enough.....


I mean we can't fully prove anything, yet we can't fully deny anything.....and until we see it with our own eyes their just stories....this one in particular is a good one...

maybe one day we'll know the truth.



posted on May, 4 2005 @ 08:28 PM
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Yes, very good post. I don't even think I've heard of the Hill Abduction Case before this....sad. Great post though.



posted on May, 4 2005 @ 08:40 PM
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Good job Gazrok this is a case that seems to hold water. One thing I

did not know before your post was the radar target tracked by the military

location. I thought this was a good case before but that basically seals

the deal for me. "I got a lot of freinds that would love to meet you".

Classic, I love it.





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