WAR: FBI Goes After the Animal Liberation Front

The radical animal rights group known as the Animal Liberation Front, or ALF, is being targetted by the FBI as a result of recent activity. The Department of Homeland Security fears the ALF may support Al-Qaeda, and has listed them as an organization that requires special attention. Some of the crimes being investigated include: glueing locks, blowing bullhorns to disturb executives, spray painting graffiti, and stealing money to donate to charity. The ALF is mainly targetting Forest Laboratories, a pharmaceutical company based in Manhattan.



Some claims are too ridiculous to be believed. Saying that animal rights activists might team up with Al-Qaeda is as close to impossible as you can get without negating the uncertainty principle. Whose agenda gets dibs anyway? Does the tag team destroy America before or after it saves the animals?

These crimes are harrassment, vandalism, perhaps extortion. This is not terrorism any more than yelling at your neighbor for letting his dog defecate on your lawn. This group is obviously breaking the law, and should be investigated and the members punished. However, making these ridiculous claims about their potential partnership with Islamic terrorists borders on the insane.

The unbelievable thing is many people will support this action, because their disdain for animal rights activists allows them an 'ends justify the means' attitude. The truth of the matter is, if you allow yourself this mentality, it gives others liscense to do the same, and you may soon find yourself at the business end of a 12 gauge, wielded by an animal rights activist. After all, the end justifies the means.



[edit on 29-4-2005 by WyrdeOne]

[edit on 29-4-2005 by WyrdeOne]

Terrorism is terrorism regardless of the motives. ALF and ELF engage in terrorist activities in order to discourage others from engaging in certain activities or building in certain areas, etc. I suppose you support those who blow up abortion clinics and gay bars.

I hope this gets voted up, just so we can identify the author.

Of course these people are terrorists in the truest sense of the word. The only difference between them and Islamic terrorists is the different ideologies they twist to justify their actions.

This is not terrorism any more than yelling at your neighbor for letting his dog defecate on your lawn

The crimes listed here in this article as done by the ALF don't include the big ones they pulled of.

The ALF burned down douzens of fast food restaurants, in the US, belgium, holland and many other nations.

In belgium alone they burned down 9 fastfood restaurants.

These people are terrorists, for now, luckely noone was killed by them yet, but mass arseny and destruction of property to fear people into seeing things their way IS terrorisme.

And the best thing is, they take full credit for all these actions on their own sites.

[edit on 29-4-2005 by thematrix]

I'll do my part and eat more animals.

ALF is responsible for over 20 fire bombings. They don't "use blowhorns" or anything, they break into places and burn the place down. Or in one area let go AID INFESTED MONKEYS IN A POPULATER TOWN! Yes, not terrorists, just people who terrorize others.

Also, ALF is supported by PETA, recieving millions a year from PETA.

Grady
Are you telling me that my unique style didn't tip you off? C'mon.

I don't support those who blow up abortion clinics. I don't support those who are spray painting "puppy killer" on the cars of Forest employees. I don't support lock glueing, or theft, or any other violation of criminal law. I was very clear about that in the article. A crime is a crime, no matter how you slice it. However, for the feds to make the claim that vandals and thieves trying to put an end to animal cruelty might link up with Islamic fundamentalists intent on destroying America..well, that's the height of lunacy.

Do you think ALF members liase with Al-Qaeda?

We have more than enough applicable laws on the books to deal with these crimes. A man who uses a bullhorn to annoy his neighbors would ordinarily be charged with disturbing the peace. But if he has an ALF sticker on his bumper, he becomes a terrorist. That's malicious prosecution, and a scare tactic in and of itself. That means the prosecutors, and the FBI are engaging in terrorism. So who will guard the guards?

You've committed a serious logical fallacy by stating that I support their actions. It's quite clear that I don't. I would appreciate an apology, since it's disingenous and insulting to make accusations of that nature.

But just so we're crystal clear, I also don't support the abuse of power on the part of the federal government. If they are allowed to continue this process of dehumanizing people by applying labels like terrorist, all our heads will be forfeit to the block before the decade's done.

Edit: James - can you provide some evidence for others to read? And they most certainly do use blowhorns. It's one of their time honoured tactics. That's one strike for disinformation.

If they commit firebombings, those are similarly illegal. Obviously. The point, I think, has been missed. Such is life, I guess.

[edit on 29-4-2005 by WyrdeOne]

Thats going a bit overboard, to suggest that these guys might hook up with Al Qaeda. It seems like they are trying to whip up more paranoia and sentiment against anyone and everyone, linking even the most ridiculous suspects with international terrorism.

Im sorry, but that doesnt cut it here. They are gonna have to try better than that: claiming envirinmental groups and Islamic extremists are going to hook up and terrorize together is about the lamest attempt Ive seen yet in their War on Common Sense.

ALF/PETA tax dollars at work?

Doesn't PETA get grants? Seems like a thread here covered that.

I agree on the al-Quada link being far fetched, but I implore you to listen to what I and other said about this and read up about it, just google "Animal Liberation Front mcdonalds" and "Animal Liberation front terrorist" and you'll get a whole flury of news story's and even some GOV sites about the ALF burning down McDonalds and doing other things that WAY surpass blowing a horn.

They are terrorists and they take full credit of their actions by posting these arseny's on their own website.

Skadi
Thanks for identifying the main point, and speaking on it.

Thematrix
The crimes listed are only in relation to this newest case, this campaign against Forest Pharmaceuticals.

The other crimes aren't listed in the article, but they were the main reason, I suspect, behind the DHS putting ALF on the watch list originally. That's understandable, and reasonable. People who burn down buildings to advance their cause are obviously terrorists. The people who burned the buildings down, and them alone. Hence, the people who glued locks shut are vandals, pure and simple. I don't care if they did it for jollies, or to advance whatever cause they champion, it doesn't matter in my mind. The punishment MUST fit the crime, otherwise there is no justice.

What I can't understand is why the DHS would come out and say that they think the ALF might hook up with Al-Qaeda. That just doesn't make any kind of logical sense. It's possible, in about the same percentile as rabid wolverines exploding out of a clear blue sky to wreak havoc on unsuspecting martians disguised as postal employees.

It just doesn't make sense.

That claim is what I wanted to generate some discussion on. I wanted to know how many people actually thought that was a reasonable assumption.

Isn't it sort of like saying the KKK might team up with the remnants of the Black Panthers to spread the doctrine of white power? I mean.. it just doesn't make sense, logically, intuitively, factually. Right?

If I'm wrong, I desperately want someone to prove me wrong, because this one is eluding me big time.

Edit: Does anyone have any idea as to motive, on the part of the DHS? Certainly this could be a case of rampant stupidity, but I suspect there might be something deeper. Could they have an agenda that would be served by making themselves out to be ridiculous? Is this to make people ignore them? Is it to engender more distrust? Is it to dissuade people from joining ALF? I'm really trying to understand the motivation behind the link they made.


[edit on 29-4-2005 by WyrdeOne]

The ALF supports Al-Qaeda??

That's gotta be the stoopidist thing I've ever heard!!

The only people the ALF are a threat to are those that choose to make a living from the suffering of other inocent creatures.

I understood that there was a general tone of sarcasm in your post, however, I believe that the history of ALF is that of a terrorist organization and as such their potential activities cannot safely be under estimated during these times. Whether or not they have the real potential of joining forces with al Qaeda is of less interest to me than their leaders being brought to justice, along with all those who engage in such activities, regardless of motives. ALF and ELF are lunatics and what they might do to further their causes is beyond predictable. These folks are not what I would call patriots.

I wouldn't call them patriots, either, Grady. They are, by definition, terrorists, but they are more in the same camp as people who bomb abortion clinics.

I do care about the FBI claim that they could join forces with Al Qaeda, because this is not only an insult to my intelligence, but it is dangerous ground they are treading on. When you start to connect every crime with Middle Eastern Extremists groups, you create undue paranoia, and also allow even more coverage of the Patriot act, which is in itself...questionable.

The eco terrorist groups are of a totally different mindset, belief, and operation than are Religous extremists. Although it is good that the FBI is going to pursue these groups more, I find making things up and lying about connections between eco terrorists and Islamic Fundementalists is dangerous, shaky ground, and can further damage govornment credibility. It also is creating an unecessary culture of fear. Enough is enough. There are far worse things to worry about in life than terrorism, and truth be told, terrorism is not even amongst the top 5 problems I feel are the most pressing facing this country.

The problem is the actions of the ALF and such groups are incredibly exagerated by those who are to gain by discrediting these groups.

The ALF does not target ppl. Some factions may damage property and such things but look at the big picture here.

Who are the real threat to life and liberty? Not the ALF or ELF. Who here has ever been efected personaly by something an ALF supporter has done??

The ALF is not a true organisation, it has no membership. Any one can bomb a building and pain ALF or ELF on it. I could bomb a building and spray viva la republic on it, would you then blaim the republicans for the bombing?

No the real threat to us is our government. Time will prove me right.



[edit on 29/4/2005 by ANOK]

Does anyone have any idea as to motive, on the part of the DHS? Certainly this could be a case of rampant stupidity, but I suspect there might be something deeper. Could they have an agenda that would be served by making themselves out to be ridiculous? Is this to make people ignore them? Is it to engender more distrust? Is it to dissuade people from joining ALF? I'm really trying to understand the motivation behind the link they made.

Could it be that the government is just plain desperate to justify the billions of dollars spent restructuring the Intelligence Agencies and come up with ONE "terrorist" threat it can handle?

I do think the ALF/ELF/PETA need to be shut down, but telling us they're on the same level as Al Queda??

I believe that they may think that this AFL might be funded by Al Queda to spread a little more domestic terrorism, make us turn on ourselves even more. Other than that, I believe its a bunch of bolgna.

I remember the government also claiming that an Islamic Fundalmentalist group was working with a Neo-Nazi group to do the Okalahoma City Bombing, so it just may be their own paranoia trying to spread.

It's possible that this will believed by some.

It's also possible that it's designed specifically to be disbelieved.

If Al-Qaeda is controlled by elements of our government, or the government of one of our allies in the war on terror, that would be a great set up, slam dunk. Anonymously donate money to all the organizations that mess with your game plan, like ALF, the White Supremacists, whatever, and then turn around and expose some patsies to make the opposition look like traitors in the eyes of red blooded Americans. Conspiracy, to say the least.

It could also be a confusion tactic. Who knows what to believe anymore? This is because there is a steady stream of straight up nonsense, and some of it is just believable enough to be taken as fact and regurgitated.

It could be one of those things most people wouldn't believe if you told them. Imagine walking up to a red blooded American patriot who gets all his news from the television, and tell him you read on the internet that the DHS said the ALF is working with Al-Qaeda. I would personally expect either blank stares, or righteous indignation ala "They didn't say that! That's ridiculous!" How many conspiracy theorists have the power to convince those who have cemented belief systems? Few, if any.

Or maybe it's an outright lie, it really never was said by the DHS. Maybe this sort of stuff is seeded to make people like me look like moronic tools. Do I need the help?

Ah well...just some thoughts.

What needs to happen here is get PETA non-profit status taken away from since they pay some of the lawyer fees for members of ALF. Not sure if that would stop them in their tracks but it would be a good start.

GUYS!!! For everyone that seems to be getting hung up on simple symantics:

The ALF, and other similar organizations are terrorists. I think we've sorted that out. But they AIN'T Al Quaeda. Al Quaeda would not want to have ANYTHING to do with them.

SO, in summary: Are they terrorists? Yes.
Are they even in the same league as Al Quaeda? Not even CLOSE.
It's not all black and white people. It would also help if folks would quit getting so excited about posting, that they forget to READ accurately. Actually, they say that a person really only fully comprehends about 10% of what they read the first time they read it. Some of you should try reading these articles at least twice/editorial statements at least twice before posting.