Kashmir:-India's, Pakistan's, or Independent ?

Kashmir was sometimes called a heaven in the earth ......I still remember my days in India when I had been to the beautiful place...It was back in 1985 things were very calm then but today the scene is different ...

India and Pakistan the two hostile neighbors both claim Kashmir to be theirs.The Chinese had also captured a part of it.(correct me if I am wrong )

I started this thread discuss about this issue and to get an in-depth knowledge about the issue

I think there are many members in this forum who share a lot of knowledge about the Issue
my knowledge about the issue is limited
all I know is

1 the Kashmir problem started mainly since India and Pakistan won their independence from the British (though there were disputes about this issue before India's Independence )

2 India and Pakistan has fought a number of wars for this issue ....and this Kashmir is the main problem for hostility between the two nations

3 Some authorities claim the Kashmiris want an Independent country ...they don’t what to stay with India or Pakistan....

4 There is a party called Hurriat Conference who voice for Independt Kashmir (neither India's nor Pakistan’s)- they claim themselves to be the representative of Kashmiri people... they are not recognized by India but they are recognized by Pakistan.

5 Today there is an International Line of Control-LOC (but who is the authority for laying down the line ? Is it The UN? ....I don’t know) in the province .The west of LOC is Pak occupied and is called Azad Kashmir while the eastern part is controlled by India and is a part of the Indian state of "Jammu and Kashmir "

6 Today the Indian occupied Kashmir is haunted by terrorists .....India(as well as many other official documents ) claims that these terrorists are sponsored by Pakistan while Pakistan says that these terrorists are the Kashmiris fighting for their independence nevertheless they officially have their moral support to this "freedom struggle"....but its a know fact to the international community that these terrorists are sponsored by Pakistan

7 I came to know From my kashmiri friends(studying in St Petersburg Sate Univ on Russian Aid ) in Russia that the general the Kashmiri muslims are unhappy with the treatment they get from the Indian Army (however .....they dont claim that they are pro Pakistan ) ...but I get a hint from many(not all ) Muslims in India that they support Pakistan in spite of being Indian citizens .



now here are my questions

1 Am i wrong in any of my analysis about Kashmir...if you think so please correct me

2 How do you think that the Kashmir Issue will be solved ?

3 What do you think....kashmir officially belongs to India? pakistan? or its an independent country ?

4 What is the attitude of other countries and UN in this issue ?
(As for Russia ...I know ...Russia believes that Kashmir belongs to India and if there is any dispute on the issue between India and Pakistan then it should be solved by the two countries ...without any third party interference - basically Russia openly supports India )

What about US?


[edit on 2-4-2005 by prelude]

[edit on 5-4-2005 by John bull 1]

I think your analysis is pretty much accurate.

I think the only real way to solve the crisis is to hold a referendum in Kashmir with four options.
1: The current situation
2: Unification with India
3: Unification with Pakistan
4: Independance

This should be UN administered due to their more impartial nature and there should be UN and international troops to police the descicion.

Ultimately i beleive that Kashmir would join Pakistan if they were given the option.

What if they gave Kashmir to the Palestinians...?
Now that would certainly be interesting...

Your analysis seems ok to me...


EDIT: typo...

[edit on 2005/4/2 by Hellmutt]

every one please read this :

www.armyinkashmir.org...

Good link Stealth ........
but I think you should have posted a non-Indian as well as non0-Pakistani universally acceptable link ......which would have had a greater acceptability to the international community here is one of them

news.bbc.co.uk...

I don’t think this problem will ever be solved without a war (bcoz the Kashmir issue is a matter of prestige for both the countries )

I personally support India but I have certain negative points against India too

1 Why does Indian not claim the Azad Kashmir...they seem to be happy enough if Pakistan agrees with the LOC as border with India.....Believing in peace is good but when you are ready to loose your basic rights and properties just for peace its not greatness its Cowardness (that's what the Russian version of Bhagwat Gita reads)

2 India got a good opportunity to attack Pakistan when her parliament was attacked ...India should have made good use of the opportunity and would have seized Kashmir form Pakistan
that was the best opportunity for India because all the international powers wouldn’t have directly supported Pakistan taking into consideration that the Indian parliament has been attacked by Pak based militants (I think India had enough proofs for this )

Why should Hindu India want Muslim Kashmir. India has enough trouble with the muslim minority already. Having a huge influx of unhappy Muslims would do them no good at all.

India is a secular country unlike Pakistan which is an islamic republic....India has more Muslims than there are in Pakistan ....Indian has the second largest muslim population in the world after Indonesia...and very soon it will have the largest population if the Indian muslim dont learn the use of rubbers/latex
This muslim vote bank plays a crucial role in the India elections and politics .


So there is no point of leaving kashmir for India just because its a muslim majority state (US to has a lot of blacks who create a lot of problem there)

More over if you are blad would u prefer to cut your head(Kashmir by location in the Indian map) off?

The main party in India is a Hindu party.
The main problem in India is racial tension between Hindus and Muslims.
Kashmiris always expected to be part of Pakistan when England was preparing to leave.
Kashmir should be a Pakistani territory.

However most of this discussion is arbitrary as the area is becoming calmer and calmer as both sides negotiate.

india must become a hindu country soon , like israel and pakistan, iran, etc.

i mean we are over 90% of the population.

and besides islam does no good to anybody.

the practise of islam should be banned in india.



[edit on 5-4-2005 by Stealth Spy]

Originally posted by Stealth Spy
india must become a hindu country soon , like israel and pakistan, iran, etc.

i mean we are over 90% of the population.

and besides islam does no good to anybody.

the practise of islam should be banned in india.



[edit on 5-4-2005 by Stealth Spy]

I am an hindu and i disagree.Whats wrong with secularism.

Hi guys

Sorry I havent had a chance to respond to this thread (Prelude created it on request from me) as I been rather busy lately and it requires a somewhat involved response.

I will try my very best to get to it this weekend. (Fri, probably)

Cheers,
Raj

Originally posted by warthog911

I am an hindu and i disagree.Whats wrong with secularism.

95% of indian muslims are more patriotic towards pakistan that india.

most muslims are bound by loyalty to their religion and belong to the same islamic "Ummah", irrespective of their nationality.

40% of the operatives of LeT, Hizbul, etc are indian muslims.

its okay to be secular, but when muslims do not reciprocate the same secularism, and use the benovelent nature of hindus to achieve their vile objectives, hate starts.

for example, its perfectly okay to be secular towards sikhs, christians, parsis, jains, buddhists. but islam is a no-no.

although i agree that there may be a few muslims who are genuinely patriotic towards india, yet their number is so very small and negligible that the entire community can be generalised as anti-national and unpatriotic, ignorant, highly selfish, and extremely fundamentalist.

about 99% of muslims are hard core, unbending fundamentalists, while only about 2% of hindus suit the same description.

Bottomline : Eradicate islam from india before islam eradicates you.

--
These are solely my personal feelings and not intended to hurt anyone.I hope the mods understand

I admit to not knowing much about politics with regard to India and Pakistan.
Where is the conspiracy here? Could someone elaborate?

Originally posted by Stealth Spy
india must become a hindu country soon , like israel and pakistan, iran, etc.

i mean we are over 90% of the population.

and besides islam does no good to anybody.

the practise of islam should be banned in india.



[edit on 5-4-2005 by Stealth Spy]

Dude,
You're not opening your mind enough here. I suggest you take a cold shower and go get to know some Indian Muslims before you get all conclusive about them.

Originally posted by DontTreadOnMe
I admit to not knowing much about politics with regard to India and Pakistan.
Where is the conspiracy here? Could someone elaborate?

Here's a quick overview
1) Pre August 15th, 1947: The Indian sub-continent consists of British India + dependent princely states
2) Freedom Movement (1945 - 1947): British agree to free the sub-continent. Mohammad Ali Jinnah, who used to be a member of the Congress party until he left to form the Muslim League, feels that Muslims will get inadequet representation in the govenment. He argues that the Brits should partition the sub-continent into a Muslim majority chunk (Pakistan) and a Hindu majority chunk (India). The Brits agree. Future Home Ministers from both future countries are asked to go out and convince as many princely states to join their new countries as is possible. Most kings agree, though the Maharaja of Kashmir wishes to remain independent. Jammu and Kashmir has three ethnicities - Hindu (Jammu), Muslim (Kashmir) & Buddhist (Laddakh). Overall, J&K is a Muslim majority region.
To pressure the Maharaja into joining Pakistan, Pakistan sens in Mujahideen fighters to capture J&K. Under pressure from terrorists who had penetrated almost to Srinagar (capital), the Maharaja signs over to India who push the terrorists out. A Ceasefire is signed and a LOC (Line of Control) established. The LOC is not a border, it is just a line of physical control.
Pakistan claims the remainder of J&K while India claims PoK (Pakistan occupied Kashmir) which Pakistan calls Azad Kashmir. Thats how things are right now.

The solutions concerning Kashmir are numerous and though both sides argue claims rights to Kashmir, the best solution was laid on the table back in 1998: the Andorra Model:
A Guide To Kashmir Peace Plans
Track II Floats Andorra Model For Jammu & Kashmir

The Andorra Model/solution would allow both countries to have joint sovereignty [defence and foreign affairs] over Kashmir, while allowing the people of Kashmir maximum freedom and rights to control their domestic affairs.




seekerof

[edit on 23-4-2005 by Seekerof]

Kashmir can be declared independent, but i am 100% sure pakistan will attack it and capture it.

The same thing happened in 1949.

Pakistan are hell bent on getting Kashmir at ANY COST.

The following BBC site shows 7 possible scenario's with maps of how the Kashmir issue can be solved : LINK

IMO, Scenario 1 is most practical.

Originally posted by prelude
The Chinese had also captured a part of it.(correct me if I am wrong )

Yes i will. The Chinese controlled part is called "Aksin Chin" and was ceded by pakistan to china to win the latter's support

i am an indian and work in the oil industry
i've worked with a lot of indian and pakitani engineers in my line of work and all have the same opinion. give them independence! people of both countries agree that the kasmir problem is just more headache to the already long list of things both countries face.

i think we both would be better off without kashmir.

or just agree that the loc is the border and get it over with.