Reply to I.F. about Mormons(all welcome to post)

A.K.A. BuddhaCession

Isis Fibonacci said:

["The whole religion is a twisted set of beliefs from one mason's mind"]

Not true. According to the church; the religion began when Joseph Smith was only 14 years old. Whether this is true or not; J.S. couldn't be the sole author of Mormonism.

He was made a Mason AFTER the religion began and moved up in degrees faster than most people in history, but the real founders were Masons from the very foundation of the church. J.S. was just a frontman who people would believe was a prophet.

The Aaronic and Melchizedek priesthood initiations of the church are almost identicle to Masonic initiations.

The beehive is Masonic and it's Utah's and the Mormons symbol.

I'm not a big David Icke fan but this article contains many truths:

www.davidicke.com...

["There are no black people or Spanish people in the religion. Period. They simply DONT exist in the Book of Mormon!!"]

Wrong. The "Lamanites" of the Book of Mormon are what we now call Native Americans. The Mormons say that the black "Lamanites" used to be white "Nephites" who "God" "cursed" with dark skin.

When you say Spanish I think you're talking about people who are partially white or non-white hispanic people right? Sadly there are many converts who either don't know what the church teaches about their dark skin or they actually believe it! Mexicans, "American Indians", Puerto Ricans, Costa ricans, etc. are considered Lamanites. It's worse than the white-Jesus brainwashing of the KKKatholic church.

Peep the nonsensefrom the B.O.M.:

2 Nephi, 5:21 "And he had caused the cursing to come upon them, yea, even a sore cursing, because of their iniquity. For behold, they had hardened their hearts against him, that they had become like unto a flint; wherefore, as they were white, and exceeding fair and delightsome, that they might not be enticing unto my people the Lord God did cause a skin of blackness to come upon them."

2 Nephi, 5:23 "And cursed shall be the seed of him that mixeth with their seed; for they shall be cursed even with the same cursing. And the Lord spake it, and it was done."

They even say that "Lamanite" converts can become white again!

2 Nephi 30:6 "And then shall they rejoice; for they shall know that it is a blessing unto them from the hand of God; and their scales of darkness shall begin to fall from their eyes; and many generations shall not pass away among them, save they shall be a white and delightsome people."

They also say that black people are the result of the "cursed seed of Cain" and the "curse of Ham".

We can see a pattern here. The Masons know that the white race is the newest race and they know who the original man is and they were trying to hide it with things like the Mormon church and KKK. Albert Pike 33rd degree Mason was the co-founder of the KKK.

Read the Mormon "Pearl of Great Price" for an interesting read. It's not long and has some really weird stuff as well as some true things.

Here's a list of MOSTLY white Masonic writers(which is kinda ironic) who wrote books which admit truths about pre-white races such as the Khemetians, Ku#e dravidians of India, Arabians, etc.


"Anacalypsis Vol 1 + 2" by Godfrey Higgins

"Gerald Massey's Lectures"

"Book of the Beginings" by Gerald Massey

"Natural Genesis"

"Signs and Symbols of Primordial Man"

"The Secrets of Freemasonry" -Elijah Muhammad

"The Royal Secret"

"Morals and Dogma" Albert Pike

"Irano Aryan Dieties and their worship in the Zend Avesta" by Albert Pike

"Indo Aryan Dieties and their worship in the Rig Veda" Albert Pike

"Lectures of the Arya" Albert Pike

"Rama & Moses: The Aryan Cycle & the Mission of Israel (1923)" by edward schure

"The Hermeneutic interpretation of the social state of man and the destiny of the Adamic race" by Fabre D'Olivet

"Herbraic Tongue Restored" Vol 1 + 2, by Fabre D'Olivet


"The book of the Glory of the Blacks over the whites" by Al Jahiz

"The destruction of black civilization" by Chancellor williams

"Jesus and Moses are buried in India" by Gene Matlocke

"The last atlantis book youll ever read" by Gene Matlocke

"Siva and Serpent worship" by Staniland Clarke

"Phallic and nature worship"

"symbollism" by Macoy

"Pre-Historic Nations or Inquiries Concerning Some of the Great Peoples and Civilizations of Antiquity and their Probable Relation to a still Older Civilization of the Ethiopians or Cush-ites of Arabia (1869)" by John D. Baldwin

"stellar theology"

"The christ conspiracy" by Acharya S.

"The Hiram Key"(some info)



ONE





[Edited on 19-7-2003 by Tamahu]

Hi Buddha, thanx for the info....

I'm not sure if your a Poly too, but for me, it's crazy to be a Lamanite and still participate in this church. I didnt mean to sound ignorant w/ my choice of words in the first post which you replied to....

it's just that my mother is a Nephite (white) my father was a Lamenite (Polynesian) when he was still living. My mother re-married a racist mormon white man who does not like brown me....

My mother's interpretation of your first excerpt from the Book of Mormon includes that all other races bsides white are CURSED. My Lamenite Auntie told me "YOU MUST PRAY HARDER IF YOU ARE A LAMENITE!"

WHY? What knida BS is that about?

Anyway, when i said "black" i really meant African American. I mean, if Africa is where archaeologists have found most fossils and bone structures of ancient man, why doesnt the Book of Mormon (which is referred to as a HIStory book by mormons i know) include Africans? They exist too ya know!! i mean what the f*ck?!?

The "Lamenites" are supposed to be the Jaredites, aka Native Americans. I dont consider Spanish or Latinos to be Native American. Cherokee is Native American.

I believe the Carribean countries/territories of Cuba, Puerto Rico, Costa Rica, Dominican Republic, and other South American Countries are populated with people who are mixed from 3 different grps of race: natives who were already there first (including Incas, Aztecs, Mayans, etc.....), then the Spanish conquistadors and their followers (Hernando DeSoto, Ferdinand, etc..), and the AFRICAN slaves who were w/ them! That's where all the different variety in colors for all of the Latino countries. Where do you think the Santeria religion came from? not Cuba, but Africa! It was brought to Cuba by way of the slaves. So how could they label all of these "lamenites" into one box ???

How dare the Mormons place labels on everyone!! I feel like i'm in the twilight zone everytime i ever went to that church w/ all the fake ladies asking me if i want a brownie.


I also think Joseph Smith got a lot of the rituals FROM Freemasonry. I dont think he had all the rituals planned out and everything in order at age 14, i just think he took all the masonic ideas after he became a mason and applied that to his pioneer mormon city, i think it was called Nauvoo. anyway, I read this book called "Mormon America" by Richard and Joan Ostling
****(WHICH INCLUDES A SICK PICTURE OF A MAN W/ 6 WIVES AND 30-SOMETHING CHILDREN!!!!!)*******






You should check it out, very informative. Peace Buddha

Isis

I'm actually white.

I know a Mormon Polynesian dude that believes that his dark skin(melanin conductor of solar energy) is a curse. What brainwashing. The supposed fact that his ancestors were cannibalistic helps him confirm this, according to him. I don't think that melanin has anything to do with that. If Europeans didn't learn civilization from Africa and Asia, they very well may have been cannibals too.

Many(not all) Hispanics DO have mostly "Lamanite" blood. Also; the Mormon "Pearl of Great Price"(one of their "holy books") of which I mentioned before DOES mention Africans.

Like I've said; the creation of the Mormon Church does not lie on the ambitions of one man(at least not Joseph Smith), but a group of men, Masons to be specific.


ONE

How many times must it be drilled in people's head that Jesus was CAUCASIAN, doesn't matter if he had dark skin, if I sat in the sun 12 hours a day for 30 years I'd be dark looking too.

This also looks like a pretty crappy description of Mormonism but I haven't been able to read it all...long, and what I've read seemed pretty crappy...forgive me.

And Tamahu I guess you never heard of the Celts.

In fact Civilization in Europe developed about the same time as it did in Egypt and Mesopotamia, independantly of those regions.

And the Greeks? Well all that "art and literature" was influenced by the Doric invasion of 1000BC. Which did cause a dark age and the Doric "stronghold" in Sparta was a complete deadzone of creativity but the Doric invasion impacted ALL of Greece, not just peloponesia. Peloponesia just seemed to suffer from it as we would say...

[Edited on 20-7-2003 by FreeMason]

Hello.

That was very interesting to read. I am half Mexican and Filipino and was a part of the Mormon religion. My father (not a member of the Mormon church anymore) and his side of the family are Mormon but on the other hand, my mother and her side of the family are catholic. I guess they didn't let religion get in their way of marriage, lol.

Anyways, I'm only 17 and only attended church from about when i was very small, I'm thinking around 4 years old to about 11 or 12. I was even baptized when I was 9. I stopped going to church when my father stopped. When I was younger, I didn't really get a straight response out of my dad when I asked why we hadn't gone to church anymore. Once we were eating dinner, I brought it up again. He said that in a way, he was being ostracized by the other men, who were white. When I think about it, our Ward (which wasn't a spanish ward because none of us spoke spanish) was primarily made of white folk. In another conversation with my Father and my coincidently Mormon friend, he mentioned Cain's curse and how black people were not allowed to enter the priest hood. My friend defended himself and the religion he was a part of by saying that was fixed during the civil rights movement. I got really interested in the mormon religion again, so I looked up some facts online. I read that as of 1979, black people could now enter the priesthood, yet that it was still taught that having dark skin was a curse and was bad. During my time at that ward, I was fortunate that I was young and didn't understand that I was one of the only brown kids around in our ward.

I don't know. I just thought I'd share my little experience with the Mormon religion. Something just wasn't right about it... I just know that I won't be apart of that group ever again.

forevers end i know EXACTLY what you mean. I really do.
You can feel it in your gut, in your heart, when you go to
that church you can feel it is not right.

freemason, i apologize my description of the church was
not the DEFINITION you anticipated. My intentions are very far from sounding a trife bit ignorant. It was my perspective. If you would like to learn more about mormons, they have a website Q&A at

www.lds.org... or something very similar, forgive me for not remembering exactly. It is very secretive even when you are a member. I was baptized and never really understood why i felt something extremely terrifying afterwards as the men in the ward all placed their hands on my head and told me to close my eyes while they said some mumbo jumbo and walked around me in circles.

I was screaming at that point. I felt like something intangible had just been ripped from my being, my soul or something that would allow me to understand it that way, anyways.




[Edited on 7-25-2003 by Isis Fibonacci]

Yeah I probably was too harsh, but I know enough about mormons, and yeah I find them an oddball bunch.

But there are plenty more real racists, and real immoral people, to be pounding Mormons

Originally posted by Isis Fibonacci
forevers end i know EXACTLY what you mean. I really do.
You can feel it in your gut, in your heart, when you go to
that church you can feel it is not right.

freemason, i apologize my description of the church was
not the DEFINITION you anticipated. My intentions are very far from sounding a trife bit ignorant. It was my perspective. If you would like to learn more about mormons, they have a website Q&A at

www.lds.org... or something very similar, forgive me for not remembering exactly. It is very secretive even when you are a member. I was baptized and never really understood why i felt something extremely terrifying afterwards as the men in the ward all placed their hands on my head and told me to close my eyes while they said some mumbo jumbo and walked around me in circles.

I was screaming at that point. I felt like something intangible had just been ripped from my being, my soul or something that would allow me to understand it that way, anyways.




[Edited on 7-25-2003 by Isis Fibonacci]

===============================

Well my dear Isis.
Let me step in here for a minute. I have known and still know a bunch of Mormon's. And just like Cathlolics, Jews, Arabs, Lutherans, and on and on down the list they are human and flawed. I have one good friend a white from Salt Lake he is republican to the core and a Somoan who is democratic to the core one is poor and one is rich however they are both Mormon and finer men you would be hard pressed to find You should not condemn a whole belief system so broadly nor belive in one to strongly and stay out of churches unless you want company for you will not find God there.
I am sorry your young life has been intruded and trampled by prejudice and rascisim, however you are not alone.
Historically speaking the Egyptian culture was the first to our knowledge that worshiped one Supreme God. They called him the Sun God.
From their we evolved or de-evolved for civilization no longer worships one God. Most all on the planet worship their Church which is idolatry to the max, they do not worship God they worship there interpretation of God as if anyone could explain God. Ha Ha!
Avoid religion and find God in your own heart and worship him in your soul for that is where he is.

God Bless You

TUT

FreeMason said:

["How many times must it be drilled in people's head that Jesus was CAUCASIAN, doesn't matter if he had dark skin, if I sat in the sun 12 hours a day for 30 years I'd be dark looking too."]

If you sat in the Sun for 12 hours a day for 30 years you'd probably be dead because your skin probably doesn't have enough melanin to transmute The Suns energy. Assuming that you're white; the UV rays would damage your skin and eventually cause cancer.

I'm sorry but you need to drill harder because while I don't want to get into the identity of the Hebrew's and various tribes, bloodlines, surrounding ancient peoples, etc.; I doubt that the historical Yeshua was white. The King James(which is Masonic I might add) translation has Solomon describing himself as 'black'. Not tan, not dark, not bronze but BLACK. "Jesus" is described as having bronze feet as if they had been BURNT IN A FURNACE; and WOOLY hair. How many non-black people have wooly hair? Of course there are black people with frizzy and even straight hair;(Tamils for example) but not many if any, white people with wooly hair.

As far as my description of the Mormons... Well; lets just say that I've lived in Utah all my life, half of my family is Mormon and I've read all three Mormon "Holy Books" from cover to cover. The fact that I have a little knowledge of Freemasonry clears a few things up about their church as well. If I've said anything false; call me on it.

The Celts. Let's see what the FreeMason Godfrey Higgins has to say about them: members.tripod.com...

"In my Essay on The Celtic Druids, I have shewn, that a great nation called Celt�, of whom the Druids were the priests, spread themselves almost over the whole earth, and are to be traced in their rude gigantic monuments from India to the extremities of Britain. Who these can have been but the early individuals of the black nation of whom we have been treating I know not, and in this opinion I am not singular. The learned Maurice says, "Cuthites, i. e. Celts, built the great temples in India and Britain, and excavated the caves of the former."* And the learned Mathematician, Reuben Burrow, has no hesitation in pronouncing Stonehenge to be a temple of the black, curly-headed Buddha."

The white Celts probably adopted the original black Celtae ways and claimed it as their own. If a white Mason wrote this in 1833 and was B.S.ing; what would have been his alterior motive? And don't give me that #e about "Individual Masonic writings don't represent FreeMasonry".
If all these Masonic writers are spreading lies and/or poor scholarship; what does that say about your organization; that most of its members are liars and idiots?

There may have been civilizations in Europe during the time of Khemet, Sumeria, Indus-Kush, etc. but not near as developed. Considering the fact that all races came from black-skinned people; there were probably black people who settled in Europe before whites ever existed.
Face it; our great,great,great,great,great,great,great etc. and so on grandparents were black.

I'm a little familiar with this Doric invasion and Peloponnesia stuff; but you're being a little vague as to how it relates to this discussion.


ONE









[Edited on 26-7-2003 by Tamahu]

I don't mean to come off as being judgemental; I just want to put it as it is so people can have a better overstanding. There are good hearted Mormons just like in any other group, creed etc.

Your right. The Neters("Gods") of Khemet were not considered to be equals with the El Kuluwm (The All) or Most High. Some or even many Khemetians recognized the Oneness of All before Siddartha Gautama's great-great grandparents were ever born.


ONE

[Edited on 26-7-2003 by Tamahu]

Tamahu, plenty of white people suffered 12 hours of sun a day (slight exaggeration...up at dawn sleep at dusk with whatever shade you get in the mean time), for as much as their lives allowed.

Most whites (depending on latitude), will stay relatively white...so for a better word, it would be "Caucasian".

As the Negro race and Caucasian race differe slightly in the actual color of skin, when it comes down to who can be the blackest of course the Negro can, but when it comes down to "can caucasians be black"? Of course they can get pretty dark, it's pretty evident in Middle Eastern tribes men, who have dark and ruddy skin.

But they are not Negroid, they are still Caucasian, the defining difference between Negros and Caucasians is ONLY in their facial structure.

A Negro has a bit broader bone structure and it's quite obvious.

The reasons for the difference is probably limited to geographical breeding, and probably will die out over the centuries now that the world is so "accessable" if it weren't for all the racial hate, and for the general tendency for races to breed with others of their same race.

Some call that being racist...at least, to recognize that fact, but it's just natural...a primitive need to prevent too much new genetics entering the gene pool of one group, because a successful genetic group might gain genetic deficiencies from other groups.

Hence why even races can be sub-classed into geographical areas...this person looks german, that person russia, another looks french...

So when people try and claim that Jesus was not white...they are utterly stupid and are showing a terrible lack of knowledge.

Jesus in every since of the word was a Caucasian (white), race is NOT defined on purely the color of the Skin, as Jesus probably was darker like a mexican or an Arab...however, he was not a "negroid".

It's just a fact.

[Edited on 26-7-2003 by ultra_phoenix]

And the documents which support this "fact " are...?

Researcher..... "facts" can be found all over the internet.
The "facts" simply can be presented for both sides.....
The most important "fact" is what Jesus represents and symbolizes.......placing a mere "color" issue on him is merely insignificant and leans to trivalism.

regards
seekerof

[Edited on 26-7-2003 by Seekerof]

I'll have to disagree to an extant.

Race SHOULDN'T matter; but IF Yeshua or "Jesus" as they like to call him, were black; it shows that they wanted to distort the truth as to put white people closer to "God". Considering how many Christians there are, look at the psychological affects that would have.

Even IF Yeshua was white, I still say that the common depiction of him is really Michaelangelo's uncle.

Has anyone seen the ancient depictions of the black Madonna with child in arms?


ONE

The Documnetation lies in the artwork of the whole mesopotamian peoples.

The Egyptians were clearly always caucasoid...hence why they so easily divided themselves from the obviously darker and broader boned Nubians.

The Phonecians (who were neighbors to the Israelis), described the southern Africans as being different by both color and features.

The Mesopotamians were not Blacks.

Neither were ANY Hebrews or Israelis at the time.

The only shred of "evidence" that Jesus could be black, is that sometimes the Hebraic people's were described as more like Aetheopians, but this is just the ignorance of the person reading it, as they don't understand what Aetheopia was to the greeks at the time...

Joseph Smith was just a wacked out guy who wanted to be able to marry lots of women. Jesus visited the 'New World'? C'mon... that's a bunch of bull.

As a 'Mormon' I would like to clear some things up:

1) nobody is labelled a 'Lamanite' or a 'Nephite' in the church. Regardless of what your skin color or family heritage may be. If you can trace your family heritage back to Laman, then fine, call yourself a Lamanite, but the Church isn't going to refer to you that way. The belief is that the Lamanites/Nephites lived mostly in Central America, and it's believed that the Native Americans are decendents of the Lamanites (early church members called them as much...that's not the case anymore) but that has nothing to do with your status in the church or how "hard you have to pray". Anyone who tells you otherwise is simply ignorant.

2) during a blessing or confirmation (after you're baptized) hands are placed on your head (just like it says in the bible) by men in authority. There is no walking in cicles or "mumbo-jumbo". It's all spoken in plain-english (or your native language) in the same way that you would say a prayer.

3) Why wouldn't Jesus visit the people of the Americas?

If you want to know the truth you can't base all your investigation on the biased opinions of Mormon-haters. To form a truly intelligent opinion don't you need the input of both sides of the argument?

any religion that issues you underware i tend to distance my self from...


altho the polygamy thing does sound pretty good

Just because one exposes something; doesn't mean that they "hate" it. But I won't lie and say that I don't dislike the church.

You also didn't disprove one thing that I said.

Are you going to prove a quote from your own book wrong?


ONE

If one really wanted to see how satanic mormonism is, just dig deeper into its own books, history and foundership. Joseph Smith had a personal bodyguard who more often than went out and murdered people who challenged Joseph Smith. His bodyguard's name was Orrin Porter Rockwell. A lot of supernatural things happen in the mormon church and who's to say that the beings that appeared to JS were who they said they were??? I say it wasn't God and Jesus. Reason being, a man cannot see God and still live. JS did not say that he was rendered into spirit form first before the divine appearance. He implies he was still in the flesh. If that is the case, his body would have disintegrated from the exposure of God's glory.
Also, look in the Pearl of Great Price, a mormon book. God allegedly lives on a planet near a star called Kolob. Kolob is like a stationary satellite where its light solely shines on the throne of God.
There is more than meets the eye in the mormon religion. I plan to remain a mormon until I can uncover a lot of "truths" for myself. However, I am truly a christian by belief.

ABB