Death By Slow Burn: How America Nukes Its Own Troops

www.iraqwar.ru...

" DU munitions are classified by a United Nations resolution as illegal weapons of mass destruction. "

So I guess there are " legal " weapons of mass destruction ?

" Their use breaches all international laws, treaties and conventions forbidding poisoned weapons calculated to cause unnecessary suffering. "

Hey, reading this on a Russian website is pretty " funny ". After all, the Russian AK-74 ( not the AK-47, I wrote the AK-74, so it wasn't a mistyping error ) has a bullet with a decentred gravity centre. Like this, the bullet is turning on themself ( like a knife who's throwed ), and so, cause a maximum of damages. That kinds of bullets are ABSOLUTELY forbiden.It seem the Russians don't mind so much about it.

Anyway, the Russians didn't sign the Geneva Convention,so.....

And don't tell me I'm standing up for the USA. In fact, I just show you the Russians hypocrisy.

May be you're not aware, but in the sixities, the Russians did some test with their parachutist units. The guys had to jump off from the airplanes, at a very low altitude ( 100 foot ) WITHOUT a parachute. The " experience " was to see how long it takes to touch the ground when you don't have a parachute. Less time in the air, more chance to stay alive when you jumped over a target cuz the guys on the ground will not have the time to fire at you. Ok....1000 jumps, 995 deads, 4 wounded and 1 who was still alive without any wounds.

Stupids commies.

I think you would be well-advised to research this a little further. Depleted heavy metals are used in a number of industrial applications. The metals are not used in the military applications because of some type of radiation they might impart, but because of their mass. The more the mass, the more the kinetic energy, the more they can penetrate.

[Edited on 14-7-2003 by Valhall]

Valhal, I don't think he will research anything because I don't think the honest truth is at the heart of his motivations. From looking at the top 5 posts up this morning, I'd say he's been sent another batch of propaganda. Its a recruitment tactic so he's not going to reason with you or argue on the facts. I happen to see your post last so I thought I'd read the thread otherwise when I see stuff like this, I try my best to take it for what it is and pass it on by.

Originally posted by Valhall
I think you would be well-advised to research this a little further. Depleted heavy metals are used in a number of industrial applications. The metals are not used in the military applications because of some type of radiation they might impart, but because of their mass. The more the mass, the more the kinetic energy, the more they can penetrate.

[Edited on 14-7-2003 by Valhall]

I am well aware that is the reason for using them in military application, but as the aticle points out, and as is clear from scientific investigations on the subject, DU is extremely poisonous when it enters the organism. It's a danger to the soldiers (Gulf War Syndrome) and to the civilian population on a massive scale, since it is scattered all around in Iraq. Even the UK admitted that.

Who's going to pay for the cleanup and the malformed iraqi children ?

PS: astrocreep, i commented on your behaviour already. What you are achieving is proving how unreflected someone must be to partake in your opinions.



[Edited on 14-7-2003 by Mokuhadzushi]

There is no link between DU and GWS.

There is no link (other than junk science) between DU and the ailments that have been linked to it.

This has been hashed and rehashed here at this site, and this is no new information.

I feel Astro might be right on his propaganda call.

I read somewhere that long after any of the Bush adminisration and Saddam supporters are dead the people of Iraq will be suffering death from DU. ration? Is Du radiation more persistant than the radiation from Hiroshima? People are living there. Are they still recieving radiation?

Originally posted by astrocreep
Valhal, I don't think he will research anything because I don't think the honest truth is at the heart of his motivations. From looking at the top 5 posts up this morning, I'd say he's been sent another batch of propaganda. Its a recruitment tactic so he's not going to reason with you or argue on the facts. I happen to see your post last so I thought I'd read the thread otherwise when I see stuff like this, I try my best to take it for what it is and pass it on by.

I would ask that you review some of the excellent posts on ATS regarding the radiation poising from Iraq I, as well as the effects on Vieques, Puerto Rico......this is radiation poising at it's worst and a documented problem by organizations from every political stripe.

UP

tumble, tumble, tumble......what's the value of devaluating the Russian article on the subject & tossing up the AK-74 info? You were in the military.....is anybody's army fighting with guns that do not leave a much bigger exit hole than entry point!?!?

usinfo.state.gov...

DU ammunition has been around for over 30 years and is not harmful, unless it is shot at you.

I have handled this stuff (20 mm Phalanx) many times, and there are no special precautions required, not special handling equipment, no special containers. It is just really heavy compared with normal ammunition.

You will get a bigger dose of radiation by sitting in front of an old color TV for a few hours......

Who also have DU in the vest you wear when you get an xray. It is DU, there is little radiation risk. I am tired of people complaining about DU.

Are you guys gonna blame the government when you find out how radioactive concrete is???

Is it also going to be deemed another sinister NWO plot by the DOD and admin???

By the way, I'm not particularly concerned about how much contamination takes place in the pieces/parts of a blown up body by a depleted uranium munition.

Yeah, it probably harmed them...go figure.

Originally posted by Bout Time

tumble, tumble, tumble......what's the value of devaluating the Russian article on the subject & tossing up the AK-74 info? You were in the military.....is anybody's army fighting with guns that do not leave a much bigger exit hole than entry point!?!?

I'd like to point out a couple of things about this statement:

You misquoted the original poster. He didn't say a damned thing about the illegality of this munition being because its exit hole is bigger than its entrance hole. If this were the case we'd all have to fight with spears. He said the illegality lies with the offcenter CG...which causes the bullet to NOT be instantly fatal, but cause extreme damage and inhumane suffering. The point being in this ammunition design...to take as many people off the field helping the torn up target as possible. Read before you post.

Okay, I edited this, because now I'm calmed down



[Edited on 14-7-2003 by Valhall]

IAEA sez:


www.iaea.or.at...

By the way, doubt about DU arose after the last gulf war where it was first used massively, and a population was first infected on a large scale. So Bush&Pentagon knew of this before ordering it's use against the Iraqi population.



[Edited on 14-7-2003 by Mokuhadzushi]

Originally posted by Valhall

Originally posted by Bout Time

tumble, tumble, tumble......what's the value of devaluating the Russian article on the subject & tossing up the AK-74 info? You were in the military.....is anybody's army fighting with guns that do not leave a much bigger exit hole than entry point!?!?

I'd like to point out a couple of things about this statement:

You misquoted the original poster. He didn't say a damned thing about the illegality of this munition being because its exit hole is bigger than its entrance hole. If this were the case we'd all have to fight with spears. He said the illegality lies with the offcenter CG...which causes the bullet to NOT be instantly fatal, but cause extreme damage and inhumane suffering. The point being in this ammunition design...to take as many people off the field helping the torn up target as possible. Read before you post.

Okay, I edited this, because now I'm calmed down

[Edited on 14-7-2003 by Valhall]

I guess "know" before you post is the appropriate response? A bullet which does what the firearm does is no different/no worse - the standard issue firearm ( pick your fave) of most armies is going to send the bullet 'tumbling' so it enters small wherever it hits, continues to tumble catching up muscle fibers and/or organs, and exits with a nice size crater in the rear.
Once we got by the Roman short sword it all got pretty inhuman, no?

William, thanks for injecting some facts into this thread. Your link was very informative.

Also, uranuim, enriched uranium and depleted uranium are different entities all together. Looking at the effects of uranium on the human body and then applying those attributes to depleted uranium whilst no one is looking does not a factual statement make.

Originally posted by astrocreep
William, thanks for injecting some facts into this thread. Your link was very informative.

Also, uranuim, enriched uranium and depleted uranium are different entities all together. Looking at the effects of uranium on the human body and then applying those attributes to depleted uranium whilst no one is looking does not a factual statement make.

A great reference site in the debate.....as well as a great example of US government spin on the topic.
It is inarguably true that DU is safe & used in a number of applications....you can proably fashion a DU teddy bear that you cuddle each night.
The destructive beauty of DU, however, is not in it's inert state....but when fired. It penetrates anything because of it's supernova heat/density ratio upon impact, a byproduct of which is a microparticle radioactive dust cloud. From the article, 700 DU tipped missiles ( with the resulting explosion pushing the radioactive dust cloud to a much greater coverage area). Millions of tank DU rounds.....all putting that airborne. That's in the first two weeks of the campaign alone.
It's out of my scientific depth, but I would have to figure that the 'cloud' aspect to spent DU rounds would be extremely harmful.

Glad you mentioned that one part of the article BT.
Millions of tank rounds? I'm sorry but thats just plain silly and pretty much when I wrote off the article as more iraqwar.ru anti american bull$hit. Let's think about this for a minute.
What would the US need to fire MILLIONS of tank rounds at? Especially Sabot rounds which is what we are talking about here. They would not use that many against Russia and China combined in a land battle.
Take a look at the capabilities of the tanks we have and the targetting systems One shot one kill almost every time.

Now back to the DU issue.
Guess what....
Every war since the advent of firearms has, by this logic, been chemical warfare!!
What are bullets made of? Lead
What happens when you ingest or inhale lead? Lead poisoning.
Now imagine all these bullets flying back and forth smacking into things and those lead bullets DO create dust just as DU on impact.
There ya go, Chimical warfare.
I know it's a stretch but so is this whole DU demonisation trip.
When or if (hopefully never) we nuke somebody for real I sure hope we hit the server for Iraqwar.ru then they can bitch about us "nuking" this and "nuking" that. They also, conveniently, skim over the fact that Russia uses DU tank shells as well.
Depleted uranium has the word depleted in it for a reason. Think about it.

Originally posted by Bout Time

I guess "know" before you post is the appropriate response? A bullet which does what the firearm does is no different/no worse - the standard issue firearm ( pick your fave) of most armies is going to send the bullet 'tumbling' so it enters small wherever it hits, continues to tumble catching up muscle fibers and/or organs, and exits with a nice size crater in the rear.
Once we got by the Roman short sword it all got pretty inhuman, no?

Your proving your lack of understanding of projectile physics, entrance/exit effects and causes, with every word you speak...keep it up, eventually you'll have yourself talked back to the short sword...which by the way, would probably lead to a fairly inhumane way to die

Seems to me that a "spin" on a story or article is a 'spin' period!

In other words, that spin can go any way...can it not....you can "spin" it to suit you, and another can "spin" it to suit himself.....so the problem is not really that the article is a "spun" article, its that those who wish to use it, for their own "spinning" do so........!
Underline "motivations" comes to mind in this case.


regards
seekerof