I thought this would be interesting,... it definetly could've been used in the HIV Debate tournament.

Somehow, I highly doubt that a few independent websites outweigh the hundreds of thousands of studies and papers that prove a link between HIV and AIDS. I personally have performed and seen the results of electron microscopy showing the capsids of HIV attached to infected T cells, and these cells were taken from an AIDS patient with extremely low WBC count.

~MFP

Its wrong to say HIV = AIDS! It should really be HIV --> AIDS. HIV is a disease, AIDS is a syndrome. Its 2 very different things, and all study's out there clearly show that HIV infects and destroys your immuno system. It would be ignorant not to believe it IMO..

I'd just like to mention that doctors don't prescribe AZT anymore. I'm pretty sure of that at least. The poster above me had it correct. HIV leads to AIDS. I believe some people can develope AIDS without HIV though. Anything that deteriorates your immune system to the point where it can't defend itself can cause AIDS (ACQUIRED IMMUNO DEFICIENCY SYNDROM). This is just my belief...take it with a grain of salt if you wish.

Originally posted by Thain Esh Kelch
Its wrong to say HIV = AIDS! It should really be HIV --> AIDS. HIV is a disease, AIDS is a syndrome. Its 2 very different things, and all study's out there clearly show that HIV infects and destroys your immuno system. It would be ignorant not to believe it IMO..

Hiya

Just a quick response to what you say. A person can be identified as being HIV + and not have AIDS. HIV isnt a disease is a virus. People can have AIDS and not be HIV+. Why is this important? Because healthy people have died after being given a death sentence and/or treatment because of a hypothesis.

Did you have a read at Duesberg's site?

Really? Are you sure you want to go with that approach...

History seems to cast some doubt on the infallibility of the MI (medical industry ).

Here is an experiment... google something along the lines of mercury poisoning teething powders.

Your links will eventually take you to some pretty dxmx funny accounts of the TOP researchers of the time chasing their tails looking for a virus that simply didn't exist! For years on end! With the obligatory rallying cries... And LOTS of fundraising!

Funny for everyone BUT the victims... lots of trusting children... and their parents.

The teething powder manufacturers had as one of their key ingredients... (drum roll please)... Yes, you GUESSED it... Mercury!

Naturally, the medical industry NEVER admitted they were wrong... The epidemic gradually faded away when the manufacturers stopped adding the insanely toxic special ingredient.

Shhh!!! It's a secret.

I guess I was wrong DAE. So, they hide the AZT in the cocktail drugs? I asked a guy I know who has been HIV + for over 20 years if they still give him AZT and he said no. Maybe he doesn't realize that it's still in the cocktail drugs? No links, I was just speculating from that conversation.

Originally posted by Dae

Originally posted by Thain Esh Kelch
Its wrong to say HIV = AIDS! It should really be HIV --> AIDS. HIV is a disease, AIDS is a syndrome. Its 2 very different things, and all study's out there clearly show that HIV infects and destroys your immuno system. It would be ignorant not to believe it IMO..

Just a quick response to what you say. A person can be identified as being HIV + and not have AIDS. HIV isnt a disease is a virus. People can have AIDS and not be HIV+. Why is this important? Because healthy people have died after being given a death sentence and/or treatment because of a hypothesis.

A virus infection = Disease. And yes, HIV is a virus, and therefore a disease.

And like I pointed out, HIV can lead to AIDS. AIDS certainly doesnt have to be caused by HIV.

Did you have a read at Duesberg's site?

Yes.

Originally posted by Griff
I guess I was wrong DAE. So, they hide the AZT in the cocktail drugs? I asked a guy I know who has been HIV + for over 20 years if they still give him AZT and he said no. Maybe he doesn't realize that it's still in the cocktail drugs? No links, I was just speculating from that conversation.

Do you still know him? Did he used to take AZT and his doctor stopped treatment? Did he say he still took treatment but not AZT?

I asked my friend, who worked in the mental health sector, how many people she knew who was diagnosied as HIV+, she told me ten. I asked her how many were given treatment and she told me nine, then she told me that those nine are dead and the other one having had no treatment was still alive and healthy today.

Yes, he's still alive. I see him ever day usually. He used to take AZT and still takes the cocktail drugs.

HIV clearly causes AIDS, everyone with the aids symptoms have the HIV infection, and its only in special cases where people are unaffected by HIV that they carry but don't get AIDs, and in those situations its amoung populations that have the highest selective pressure for aids resistance; prostitutes in africa.

No one actually beleives that HIV doesn't cause AIDs, because no one saying so has ever infected themselves with HIV.

what they find they all have in common is that they all eschewed (or quickly gave up) AZT,[...] One starts thinking.....

THen think about how the only peopel that are long term survivors are ones that are taking drugs that are designed to attack the HIV virus.

AIDS diseases are brought on by the long-term consumption of recreational drugs and anti-HIV drugs

Except that AIDs the disease only exists in people with HIV infections, and only occurs after the infection has destroyed their immune system, and people who aren't recreational drug users have AIDs.

griff
Anything that deteriorates your immune system to the point where it can't defend itself can cause AIDS

HIV is a virus that destroys the immune system, HIV is the infecfious agent, AIDS is the fullblown symptomatic disease caused by HIV infections. There are other auto-immune diseases, but we wouldn't call them AIDs, they aren't quite the same in their symptoms either. But yes, a person with an HIV infection gets AIDS, and dies from pneumonia and some types of cancers and the like.

golemina
History seems to cast some doubt on the infallibility of the MI

Who said anything about infallible? The evidence supports that HIV infections cause AIDS, and that to prevent AIDs you need to get rid of the infection.

Dae
then she told me that those nine are dead and the other one having had no treatment was still alive and healthy today.

Anyone that is a doctor for a patient like that would report it in the medical journals and the person's immune system would be studied to find out why. Obviously this is an anecdote, but is there anyway to demonstrate that this story is true?


[edit on 12-4-2006 by Nygdan]

>Who said anything about infallible? The evidence supports that HIV infections cause AIDS, and that to prevent AIDs you need to get rid of the infection.

All you have to do to prevent AIDS is get rid of the infection... Really?

It's always good to have someone from the MDs perspective clear things up for us lay people...

Exactly which HIV cure/treatment is that Nygdan?

Originally posted by Dae

Originally posted by Griff
I guess I was wrong DAE. So, they hide the AZT in the cocktail drugs? I asked a guy I know who has been HIV + for over 20 years if they still give him AZT and he said no. Maybe he doesn't realize that it's still in the cocktail drugs? No links, I was just speculating from that conversation.

Do you still know him? Did he used to take AZT and his doctor stopped treatment? Did he say he still took treatment but not AZT?

I asked my friend, who worked in the mental health sector, how many people she knew who was diagnosied as HIV+, she told me ten. I asked her how many were given treatment and she told me nine, then she told me that those nine are dead and the other one having had no treatment was still alive and healthy today.

thats only 10 people not enough to make a case study and that 1 person that didnt take the treatment was likely a long term non progressor I know a few of them, not only that hiv effects everyone different as do the meds.

I can say this however if I was a longterm non progressor that was put on meds early wich was common a few years back and felt sick from them and stoped takeing them and saw there wasnt any progression I would probly be a dissident also however thats not the case with everyone.

and these links to the dissident sites are old and have outdated information that people read and suddenly think they are experts on the issue however if you use the ats search you will find links that debunk them.