OP/ED:Who is Organising these Spontaneous Popular Uprisings ?

If you're not asking yourself this question tonight then you should be. Popular uprisings in our current up-to-the-minute, 24/7 media world have been the source of all bloodless and successful transitions to democracy in the last twenty years and if you haven't realised that it's a relatively cheap, winning formula for achieving the stated goals of this U.S President's administration, then you should at least concede that the agency backroom boys paid for their brains have understood it in principle since the Berlin Wall fell.


It really isn't that much of a surprise. Is it ?


Today we saw the "Pro-Syrian" Lebanese government fall after mounting pressure since the assassination of Prime Minister Rafik Hariri and it bore every semblance of the bloodless revolutions in the Ukraine, Serbia, and Georgia and they in turn followed the original blueprints developed spontaneously in the late 1980's as the Iron Curtain fell and the puppet dictators of Eastern Europe could no longer count on the support of their soviet masters.


It's the media stupid or specifically the CNN effect. We are watching you see, and if those demonstrators know we are watching then they become emboldened, determined, and tenacious.


Only with Tiananmen Square was this unsuccessful. Possibly, probably, the Chinese authorities were able to cauterise the media flow inwards weakening the protest and they gambled, correctly, that using the military, although outraging the citizenry of the world, would not bring down popular military intervention nor stave our desire for cheap consumer goods.

But if the fall of the Warsaw Pact states at the nadir of Soviet Russia was the blueprint from which bloodless popular uprisings were drawn and became a political tool, and Tiananmen Square was the exception, then what other examples have we seen so as to perceive a pattern ?

My interest was first pricked during the Ukrainian Orange revolution late last year so I can't claim to be too far ahead of any of you and years behind those that formulated this tool for democratisation. It was while hearing about a student organisation called Pora, created, financed and trained by Washington. They organised the Orange revolution and they had been planning it for a couple of years.

Pora had "sister" organisations in Serbia it was Otpor. Created, financed, and trained in the same way and in Georgia it was Kmara, exactly the same thing there.Both these organisation played a leading part in their popular uprisings.

Now we have a similar uprising in the Lebanon and I think it's only fair to ask, a) Which group is behind the organisation of this uprising and who are they financed by ? and, b) Did they react to the assasination or was the assasination the precipitous action needed to get the ball rolling ?

Ask yourself this also. What else can we expect to see. Student protests in Iran or Syria ? How about Saudi Arabia ?

There is one important lesson everyone should take on board in this new world order. Nobody minds a just war and it's the established medias job these days to justify wars. The U.S.A can attack any country it likes if the TV cameras show that country's military machine gunning crowds of protestors down.

The tactic is to either provoke this kind of aggressive response in front of the world's press or precipitate political change.

[edit on 28-2-2005 by John bull 1]

Originally posted by John bull 1
The U.S.A can attack any country it likes if the TV cameras show that country's military machine gunning crowds of protestors down.

[edit on 28-2-2005 by John bull 1]

Geez. You just had to go and spoil it, didn't you?



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I think everything you wrote can be accepted unless you look at south america. Popular uprisings are not encouraged. However bandit groups like zapatistas are. And in their own realm they have been successful.

Not to put too much weight on them since they are just the second generation of true Guerilla Revolutionaries who were 'communist' albiet yet forceful and successful in getting their goals through small action groups.

John Bull 1, when I look at the popular uprisings I don't see them as anything but the workings of covert groups who fund and organize these citizens and use them to knock down the doors of a powerhouse they would like to control. When all is done the people will be back in their homes, maybe with more bread than the day before, but not much else changed systematically.

I think there are a couple of causes ...

1. the advent of universal communications, TV, internet, phones etc, people realise that they arn't living in a workers paradise and want what they see the west has got.

2. There IS something happening politically under the serface, the Ukraine uprising was said to be part of CIA, and I have read that Syria wouldn't have killed the politician, it was exactly the wrong thing for them to do, which has been shown. Saudi Arabia are on the edge of a popular uprising as well.

So we're talking wheels within wheels within wheels. ...People are becoming discontent, and more aware. Not just outside the west.

...But everyone everywhere needs to know that their energy can be subverted, huh? Kind of a cultural judo. Works in reverse tho too, don't it?



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Originally posted by soficrow
Kind of a cultural judo. Works in reverse tho too, don't it?

What does that mean? Can we reverse the scheming the covert ops do to the public and aim it back at the white house or palace or whatever head of goverment is instigating the 'cultural judo'?

I'm not quite sure I understand but would like to, can you expand further soficrow?

All revolutions, whether bloody or bloodless are orchestrated by a tiny minority of people. The massses you see on the street aren't discontent only eager to be part of something and the vast majority of people are apathetic , they don't even get off their butts.

Most revolutionaries are middle class/educated students overthrowing their heirachial superiors only to replace them with empty promises.

No it can't happen in reverse. The media controls and as long as Authority provides an enviroment condusive to the media why should it rebel ?

The idea that most people in Iran (for example) are secretly discontent is just an illusion formented by the media. Most people in Iran don't care. Most people in any country just get on with their lives.

Originally posted by John bull 1
The U.S.A can attack any country it likes if the TV cameras show that country's military machine gunning crowds of protesters down.

We cant have the horrible Americans stopping that can we. When we start interfering in another country's right to machine gun down unarmed protesters we MUST BE STOPPED

Surly JB you could have come up with something better than that

Are you saying that any dissatisfaction in any country MUST be a secret American plot and not just people tired of living in a war zone?



[edit on 28-2-2005 by Amuk]

Originally posted by John bull 1Most people in any country just get on with their lives.

Sorry for the one-liner in the realm of the mods but.....EXACTLY

When a crowd of innocents have been stirred up by an organisation created, financed, trained by the U.S.A then I think that there is an ethical point. They are used as pawns to provoke a situation and in those circumstances the blood is on the hands of the U.S.A as much as those who fire.

Surely that's quite an easy point to grasp ?

In the case of the Lebanese uprising I'd want to see the details of the European investigation into the car bombing that killed the former Prime Minister and lit the fuse to all this.

But my guess is that for many the hoped for end justifies the bloody means.

Maybe I don't care, or maybe I'm just apathetic, But if this bloodless coup does remove a government that has become so perverted that it has begun serving itself rather then it's people, that's a good thing right? And if it happens to have been funded and organized by some outside source, that's not entirely bad either.

It all boils down to those souls out on the street risking life and limb for change.

If someone gave me a chance to get together with others who wanted to see New Coke make a come back, and we could march to the Coca-Cola headquarters and protest for a change, and get it. I wouldn't care if it was Canada who organized the protest, or just other Americans.

Originally posted by John bull 1But my guess is that for many the hoped for end justifies the bloody means.

It's that type of consequentialist attitude that is destroying this earth, cultures, societies, and personal psyche of man.

Let them play games, but keep the people out of it. The people should be able to be motivated for change, sadly it's hard to do it.

That car bomb has the striking resemblance to intelligence community gadgets, not terrorists.

Originally posted by phreak_of_nature
If someone gave me a chance to get together with others who wanted to see New Coke make a come back, and we could march to the Coca-Cola headquarters and protest for a change, and get it. I wouldn't care if it was Canada who organized the protest, or just other Americans.

But would you care if it were Pepsi? What if NewCoke was not in the interest of the Coca-Cola company, so the Pepsi company organizes the people to demand change and the the Coca-Cola company gives the change but becomes weaker and weaker...this is bad. and a more truer analogy of the situation than the one you gave with canada...

Originally posted by phreak_of_nature
Maybe I don't care, or maybe I'm just apathetic,

But if this bloodless coup does remove a government that has become so perverted that it has begun serving itself rather then it's people, that's a good thing right? And if it happens to have been funded and organized by some outside source, that's not entirely bad either.

Well, first every government serves itself rather than it's people.

As for the point about finance. The last time I flew into the US I had to sign a document stating I wasn't going to try and overthrow the government. lol

I wonder how we'd feel about foreign powers financing political opposition parties so that our country would have a friendlier attitude to this foreign power.

Ah!!! But that's different.

That's us. We're not discontent. We like most other people are just getting on with our lives.

Originally posted by John bull 1
That's us. We're not discontent. We like most other people are just getting on with our lives.

Not discontent? About 50% of us are discontent. However you are correct about the getting on with our lives thing, I remember alot of people (myself included) were positive that if Bush won this country would split and maybe even erupt into civil war. I guess that didn't happen. We're too concerned with all the distractions that overfill the lives we Americans are getting on with to have any uprising. Any discontent is vented on sites like this one, then we log off and rush to stuff money into the pockets of those we bitch about in cyberspace.

Originally posted by 27jd I remember alot of people (myself included) were positive that if Bush won this country would split and maybe even erupt into civil war.

I remember a lot of us saying if Bush got elected we would leave the country. I'm the only one that did ???

[edit on 28-2-2005 by 00PS]

Originally posted by 00PS
I remember a lot of us saying if Bush got elected we would leave the country. I'm the only one that did ???

Did you honestly leave because Bush got elected, or were there other reasons like a job relocation or something? I'm just curious as to why you would move to China and not Canada or Europe to escape Bush, besides the Chinese women of course. As much as I can't stand Bush, I don't have the option of moving out of country.

Originally posted by 27jd
Did you honestly leave because Bush got elected, or were there other reasons like a job relocation or something?

Purely political...I came to China with 400 Dollars, all I had. I got a ticket and came. That's all. Don't worry if you can't understand it. You don't need to....

Today's elections in Tajikistan and Kyrgyzstan can be included as well.Like Robert Collier's quote "The great are great to us only because we are on our knees. Let us arise."

The party of Tajikistan's President Emomali Rakhmonov has won an overwhelming victory in Sunday's parliamentary elections.

The central election commission said that the People's Democratic Party won 80% of the vote, with 88% of the electorate turned out.

People's Democratic Party Wins

THE former Soviet central Asian nation of Kyrgyzstan has voted in parliamentary elections that might herald a "lemon revolution" inspired by the people-power upheavals in Ukraine and Georgia.

Lemon Revolution

Originally posted by 00PS
Don't worry if you can't understand it. You don't need to....

I can understand it, like I said I just don't have that option. If I didn't have responsibilities here I would have done the same long ago, not because of politics, but just to see and experience different places.