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Originally posted by Masonic Light
Once they graduate, they must retire to emeritus membership. To be an active member, it is required that one be enrolled in at least 12 credit hours at Yale University. The same is true of Scroll and Key, Book and Snake, Staff and Serpent, and all the others (with the exception that the last two are at Rutgers University).
Actually, it is "just a college fraternity." That's what college fraternities are.
Originally posted by Indigo_Child
It does not seem like they retire at all. As the networking and nepotism continues as well the pledge of secrecy irrespective of how powerful the members become. Just recently, Bush admitted fives bonesman into his cabinet. So, it appears that is a clear indication the ties forges in Yale are life long. In the past, many bonesman have been part of the cabinet and worked together on state policy.
Further, I would like to see evidence for your claims that they retire.
Do you know of any other college fraternity, that is some 200 years old, where so many of the members become presidents, senators, uber-rich bankers, CIA directors, media tycoons etc
It is a cult based in an old college, and it will remain so, until you can prove otherwise.
If you will look back and read my response to the other gentleman, you will see that I certainly conceded that fraternal ties almost always remain after graduation. They have for me personally, and I'd wager that many other posters on this forum would give us similar testimony.
However, just because I remain close friends with former collegiate "secret society" brothers does not mean I'm an active participant in the society. Active membership belongs to students only, and this has always been the case.
My "claim" that they must retire from active membership after graduation is found in the bylaws of every fraternity and sorority that ever existed. With the example of Skull and Bones and Scroll and Key, which are the two major senior societies at Yale, the University itself requires it, as practically all universities do. These are, after all, student societies.
Yes, and the answer is: practically all of them. A look throgh the websites of the various fraternities (all of which list famous members) is proof of this.
It is a cult based in an old college, and it will remain so, until you can prove otherwise.
I really have no interest in "proving" anything to you. But I think you've got it backwards: one is innocent until proven guilty, not vice versa.
Originally posted by Indigo_Child
I am certainly not suggesting Bush still attends the tomb for secret meetings. What I am suggesting, and what you concede too, that S&B go on to assume positions of power. This is what is generally agreed upon. They do not have to actively involved in the tomb to be S&B members.
Well, yes, that is what I suspected. Your claim that they are retired is based on the underlying and unfounded assumption that it is another "fraternity" and is based on nothing more than a prejudice from your own experiences with such socities. Apples and oranges.
We are talking about powerful members; not just famous. Is there any other "fraternity" where there have been three presidents, four senators, two presidential runners, chairman of the CFR, times owner etc?
You claim S&B is just another fraternity. So the burden of proof lies on you to show that.
As it could also be a cult based in a college. Which is what it seems to be.
Originally posted by Schaden
What kind of security does the tomb have ?
It's on the Yale campus ?
John Robison, a professor of natural philosophy at Edinburgh University in Scotland and a member of a Freemason Lodge,
said that he was asked to join the Illuminati. After study, he concluded the purposes of the Illuminati were not for him.
In 1798, he published a book called "Proofs Of A Conspiracy":
"An association has been formed for the express purpose of rooting out all the religious establishments and overturning all
the existing governments.... the leaders would rule the World with uncontrollable power, while all the rest would be employed
as tools of the ambition of their unknown superiors."
"Proofs of A Conspiracy" was sent to George Washington. Responding to the sender of the book with a letter, the president
said he was aware the Illuminati were in America. He felt that the Illuminati had "diabolical tenets" and that their object
was "a separation of the People from their government."
In "Proofs Of A Conspiracy", Robison printed the ceremony of initiation of the "Regent degree" in Illuminism. In it "a
skeleton is pointed out to him [the initiate], at the feet of which are laid a crown and a sword. He is asked 'whether that is the skeleton of a king, nobleman or a beggar.' As he cannot decide, the president of the meeting says to him, 'The
character of being a man is the only one that is importance'".
This is, essentially, the same as the writing in the Skull & Bones "tomb":
"Wer war der Thor, wer Weiser, Bettler oder Kaiser?
Ob Arm, ob Reich, im Tode gleich."
Which reads:
"Who was the fool, who the wise man, beggar or king?
Whether poor or rich, all's the same in death."
And, although this is sort of beside the point, I find it interesting that so much emphasis is placed on Skull and Bones alone. According to federal tax records, the Scroll and Key is far wealthier than Skull and Bones, having received millions more in endowments than their rivals in Skull and Bones; furthermore, Scroll and Key tends to be much more elitist. Skull and Bones has admitted members with less than fantastic academic credentials (George W. Bush among others); A&E ran a show about the fraternity where they interviewed a Bonesman who was tapped in the '60's simply because he was a Marxist, and the Bones thought he would make an interesting addition to their debating team. Also, Skull and Bones now admits an equal number of female students.
Scroll and Key, on the other hand, continues to be male-only, and they only tap the wealthy who show academic excellence. See the online encyclopedia entry en.wikipedia.org...
Originally posted by Indigo_Child
The facts clearly show that the S&B is an elite satanic cult, that pre-selects it's members on bloodlines and who remain members for life.
Research into S&B members will show a lot of sinister and foul play, from funding and directing all the wars, Vietnam, Korean, world wars. Links with Nazis, Stalin, Saddam, Khomenai, Osama Bin Laden, and a lot of support for fascism. The S&B members have been the driving force behind the NWO.
John Robison, a professor of natural philosophy at Edinburgh University in Scotland and a member of a Freemason Lodge,
said that he was asked to join the Illuminati. After study, he concluded the purposes of the Illuminati were not for him.
"Proofs of A Conspiracy" was sent to George Washington. Responding to the sender of the book with a letter, the president
said he was aware the Illuminati were in America. He felt that the Illuminati had "diabolical tenets" and that their object
was "a separation of the People from their government."
In "Proofs Of A Conspiracy", Robison printed the ceremony of initiation of the "Regent degree" in Illuminism. In it "a
skeleton is pointed out to him [the initiate], at the feet of which are laid a crown and a sword. He is asked 'whether that is the skeleton of a king, nobleman or a beggar.' As he cannot decide, the president of the meeting says to him, 'The
character of being a man is the only one that is importance'".
This is, essentially, the same as the writing in the Skull & Bones "tomb":
The only facts you've shown is that there have been many members of Skull and Bones who have went on to be either successful or powerful in their careers, a fact that I've never denied. But this doesn't even come close to demonstrating that the fraternity is a "cult", much less satanic.
To being with, I'm not sure you understand what is meant by "cult." A cult is not necessarily bad: it just refers to a doctrinal group which has deviated from the norm. For example, Buddhism began as a Hindu cult, and Christianity began as a Jewish cult, but neither Buddhism nor Christianity were "bad" or "satanic" just because they were cults.
Research into S&B members will show a lot of sinister and foul play, from funding and directing all the wars, Vietnam, Korean, world wars. Links with Nazis, Stalin, Saddam, Khomenai, Osama Bin Laden, and a lot of support for fascism. The S&B members have been the driving force behind the NWO.
This part of the ritual teaches the simple fact that all men are by nature equal, regardless if they are "king, nobleman, or beggar." To be honest, I don't understand your point in posting it, as it seems to disprove your claim that they are elitists.
Originally posted by Indigo_Child
As you said above, the Scroll and Key is a better funded and more elistist fraternity than S&B. However, irrespective of this, Scroll and Key pales to insignifiance in comparison.
The members are initiated not based on their academic performance(which you have already stated) but their actual bloodlines. I have produced proof of this in the list I produced above and also listed some of the major families involved. It is not contestable.
Skull and Bones does meet the definition: it is an exlusive group of people of elite bloodlines that engages in satanic rituals and has an obsession with death. Thereafter, after graduating from college, the rituals continue - bohemian grove; as does the cult.
Maybe, when I feel I need to or want too.
It does not necessarily mean they are for equanimity. For that would be contradiction of the incontrovertable fact that it is an elite society.
Originally posted by hierarch
You are both wrong. George Bush was only picked for S&B because of who his father and grandfather are. His IQ is just under half that of Clinton and he was a drunk # in school.
It seems to me that you are confusing two entirely separate issues, i.e., the two actual Yale student societies, and the history of what some of their members went on to accomplish, both for good and for ill. For example, Scroll and Key certainly does not "pale to insignificance in comaprison" with Skull and Bones; they are both basically the same: senior societies at an Ivy League University.
Not only is it contestable, it is blatantly false. All student societies choose whomever they want, regardless of "bloodlines" (in fact, it is only the conspiracy theorists who are obsessed with "bloodlines", not the secret societies).
Now, I would concede that, for example, George W. Bush was tapped for one reason: because of his dad, who had also been a member. But to turn this simple instance into some kind of theory that all members are chosen because of parentage is to commit the fallacy of converse accident, a generalization, and which in formal logic is a fallacy of presumption, and always must ipso facto lead to an erroneous conclusion.
To elaborate, anyone who has seen the A&E program about secret societies I mentioned above, where several former Bonesmen were interviewed, will recall that:
1. One Bonesman revealed that he had been a Trotskyist and anti-Vietnam War campus organizer. After his initiation, he was told that he was tapped because his viewpoints could be utilized on the Skull and Bones Debating Team at Yale. This Bonesmen was the first in his family to attend Yale, and had no relatives in the Society.
2. The other Bonesmen related that they too were the first in their family to be invited into the fraternity, and that their academic performance was the reason.
3. They conceded that, in some cases, members are chosen who are the sons and daughters of alumni, but these cases are in the minority, and exist in all fraternities and sororities
Because Skull and Bones, in the tradition of all fraternal societies, does not make known its rituals to the public, you are in no position to label them "satanic" because, quite frankly, you have no idea what they are. Having researched fraternal organizations for many years, and being a member of several, I have found many so-called "exposures" which were so absurdly wrong as to be laughable.
Excellent reseach credentials. You're going to make a great Internet conspiracy theorist!
Indeed it would contradict this, which is my point. It seems to me that you have forgotten the simple fact that fraternities are based upon an ideal of brotherhood and equality; therefore, it is certainly not surprising that such a thing would be taught in its ceremonial.
Originally posted by Indigo_Child
*Sigh* I will have to clarify for the third time. You raised the "Skull and Key" point in an effort to demonstrate how other college fraternaties have also produced people of power. I refuted that and produced a partial list of 201 S&B members all in positions of authority to demonstrate how S&B owns a monopoly over power.
You have no choice but to concede that S&B does indeed have a monopoly over power, unlike any college fraternity anywhere in the world. It is not debateable, sorry.
What is blatant is that you have either not read the list of S&B members and the prominent families I have produced, or you are ignoring it and being dishonest with yourself.
And I will have to clarify for the fourth time that you have demonstrated nothing of the sort. If your list is correct, it could lead us to consider the possibility of networking between members, another point I've never denied.
But to claim that members of Skull and Bones have a "monopoly" over power is very far-fetched, much less claiming that the fraternity itself does.
I'm neither ignoring your comments nor being dishonest. In the spirit of ATS, I am "denying ignorance", which begins with remaining skeptical, and applying Occam's Razor. Also, there are several points that you have not, at least seemingly, taken into consideration.
Originally posted by DeltaChaos
Indigo, you are helping me immensely. Good work. Way above!