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The Mormons: History, Doctrine, and a scary conspiracy
page: 1share:
This is part one, more will follow as soon as I can focus my eyes again from staring at the screen so long. I typed this once and lost it just as I
was trying to save it
My pocket guide to Mormonism **The following is my understanding and any criticism / correction is welcome if documented.**
I�m typing this in word now as the last time I did this I lost the whole post after literally working on it for 2 hours. I hope that I can remember everything I posted. As to my personal credentials I, while never officially becoming a member, was closely associated with the LDS church for a couple of years after meeting my ex-fiance whose family had been members going all the way back to like her great great great great uncle who was Martin Harris. I put a lot of time into researching the history and doctrine of the church and this post will sum up my findings.
The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints as of 2000 had 11 million members and roughly 100 temples operating world wide. They are a very rich organization as well if not the richest having assets of 30 billion dollars in 2000 I�ve heard that�s grown to near 50 billion but I can�t authenticate the latter number. It is estimated by experts that by 2080 they will have a membership of 260 million world wide, or roughly the same as the current population of the United States. First of all let me say that the mormons are some of the nicest people you will meet. I still have friends that are mormon and I wish them no ill at all, my problem is with the church itself. However, this statement is also an explanation of how the church functions and recruits so many members (it�s the fastest growing religion on earth.) The church, to use a bad analogy from Shrek, is like an onion. It has many many layers and any given layer can be as far as one needs to go to be a faithful member of the religion for the rest of their lives. I would say the majority of the members stay on the outside layer, the nice mainstream one that seems like most protestant churches, promotes family values and geneology, and puts out those nice video�s you see on TV offering videos and free copies of the King James Bible. However, if one is of the curious sort as myself being a historian, you can dig deeper into the religion for years building many nice onion layers only to find a new doctrine or belief that while completely accepted by the church, completely shatters the current layer and forces you to rebuild yet again. That is where the true nature of the church lies and at its core is something I can only describe as sinister, so sinister in fact that I am now just able to put it together.
Its probably appropriate to start at the beginning so I shall. What follows is the history of the earth as contained in mormon doctrine using the Peal of Great Price, the Book of Mormon, and the Bible as sources. There exists in the universe, a race, our race, mankind. From the beginning of time a progression has been in place where man could through certain ceremonies, living a good life, and having the correct authority progress to the point of being a god. I will get into the exact methods later but at some point before the creation of the Earth there was a man who existed on a planet orbiting the star Kolob that followed this progression as had presumably others on his world and throughout the universe. He and his wife (yes to the mormons god has a wife that ascended with him and is just not mentioned so that she wouldn�t be taken in vain as he is) give birth to billions of spirit children as is the way of things. However, the spirit children while content in their eternity, can neither experience joy, sorrow, or progress to godhood themselves without first becoming human. It is also important to note that while they were spirits they had full knowledge of the universe and free will. The path to becoming a god meant that a planet had to be created that could sustain mortal life and the spirits would descend to become humans, experience mortal existence, go through the process of becoming a god, and then ascend after death to godhood. So, under the direction of Michael (the arch-angel from the Bible) the spirits go out into the void of space and create the earth out of materials that were present. It can be noted that at least in the past this was used to counteract evolution as fossils were just the remains of animals from planets that didn�t do so well that survived to become part of the new Earth.
After the Earth was created a great council was held to decide exactly how to send the spirits to Earth. Two plans were presented, one by the first born of God, Christ, and one by the second born, satan. The plan of Christ was that humans would descend with no knowledge of the universe but would retain free will. There would be sin in the world but they would be able to gain the knowledge of making decisions, experience the joy of making the right decisions, as well as the sorrow of making the wrong ones. To make sure that the eternal progression was not derailed by sin, Christ would descend to Earth, live a perfect life, and be sacrificed to restore the progression and allow for the forgiving of sins. With this plan not everyone would progress to the same point and some would be lost for eternity, but those that made it would progress with a wisdom that came from making decisions and resisting sin. The plan of satan however, gave humans no free will over which he presumably would rule and secretly plot to overthrow god. Everyone would progress but not at the same quality or wisdom.
As you probably figured out the first plan won and satan was livid. He raised a rebellion in heaven and was followed by a third of the spirits. The rebellion was put down and satan was defeated by Michael. Those that had rebelled were cast down to earth in the form of spirits, never to gain a human body of their own and progress. There they continue to exist trying desperately to possess people or coerce them to go against god.
After all the excitement the plan was put into place. A veil was placed between Earth and Heaven so that when the spirits became human they would have no memories of their former life. Many spirits were given special missions such as prophets, the great inventors, etc. so that if they lived good lives their mission would be revealed to them again by the Holy Ghost who would thin the veil. Michael, for instance, was chosen to be the first human. He was sent to Earth and became Adam, the first human. Since there was no sin on the Earth at this point, god communicated directly with Adam and Eve and gave them the order of progression, at this point known at the priesthood. However, there was a dilemma. Part of their mission was to have children so that more spirits could become humans. However, they did not have the knowledge of how to do this and they were forbidden to eat of the tree of life which would give them this knowledge. This was put into place so that there would have to be a sin so that there would be right and wrong in the world. So, basically at this point in the game satan is used to tempt eve into eating from the tree, then Adam, then they�re thrown out but they become aware of the world and are able to reproduce, just not in the Garden. It is important to note that as of the original sin god no longer communicates directly with man. Instead Jesus who they believe is Jehovah in the Bible, communicates with prophets who convey the will of god to the people.
So, at this point Adam and Eve have their children including Cain who kills Abel. Cain is cursed and sent away. According to doctrine this curse is dark colored skin, or essentially Cain became the first African. The reason that African Americans could not become priests was that they were said to bear the mark of Cain. Of interesting note however is that Mormons do not believe that the sin of one�s ancestors is passed on so this seems to be a contradiction. So, the descendants of Adam spread throughout the Earth which at this time is one land mass, the continents have not split. They return at one time to an area that is now roughly Missouri I believe so that Adam can address them before he dies and presumably assure that the priesthood would continue. Then they spread out again and most turn away from god.
The situation gets so bad that god picks Moses and his family to build the ark and things basically start over. The continents open up and split, the oceans are created, and mankind starts again in the area of the Middle East. Another thing that just comes to mind is the question of Cain�s descendants. Someone a couple must have survived the flood. So after the flood things go decently well however the people start to turn away from god in a unified effort. They all speak the language of Adam which is the language of god so their knowledge progresses very fast. It is not clear what they were doing, but the Tower of Babel event could have been anything from an actual tower to an advanced civilization that was about to travel to another planet thus tainting the path of progression. Whatever it was the people were given different languages so that they could not understand one another and moved out into the different areas of the Ancient world their civilization thwarted.
Of importance to the mormons is one group of people at this time, the Jaredites. They were a group (the sole group?) that stayed faithful to the teachings of god. So, they were able to keep the language of Adam and were led by god to the Americas where they became what we now call the Olmec civilization (the ones that created the giant stone heads.) They eventually fell apostate and were destroyed but their remains and their record were later found by the Nephites and make up the book of Ether.
So, after all this happens god decides to focus on one group of people with the priesthood and therefore keep it safe instead of entrusting it to the entire earth. Jehovah appears to Abraham and the Israelites are created. Abraham receives the priesthood from Melchezidek, a man that is mysterious in the Bible and the mormons speculate was either a follower of god or possibly an earlier human incarnation of Christ for the purpose of bringing the priesthood back. Either way its passed on through the Israelites for some time. Also during this this period Abraham rises to some power in Egypt and leaves an account of the creation of the world and other texts in a reformed Egyptian script on the wrappings of a mummy. These are later found by Joseph Smith when the mummy comes to America and is the basis of the Pearl of Great Price.
Eventually the tribes of Israel are created and Joseph�s is special because of his devotion to God. The priesthood also survives until the time of Moses when it is dramatically weakened. This occurs when Aaron leads the people to rebel against god by creating the golden calf and worshipping it. This abomination weakens to priesthood to what was called the Aaronic priesthood and it was continued on literally through the priest class of Israel. The nation of Israel is created and things go fine until the they become too apostate and are allowed to be conquered. Of the tribes, only two survive. The tribe of Judah eventually is freed by Cyrus the Great and allowed to return to Israel where they become the Israelites. The tribe of Joseph is saved through the prophet Lehi who under the direction of god takes his sons, their wives, a record of the books of Moses engraved on bronze plates, and the sacred items of prophecy from the temple (the breastplate of aaron, the ummum, and the thummin,) to the mediteranean. There they build a cube shaped ark with no windows and are transported to Central America. Once there they split into two people, the Nephites (Incas) who were originally faithful to god and the Lamanites (Aztec) who turned away. The rest of the tribes of Israel were absorbed by Babylon and lost to history.
Over in the Americas the two civilizations were at near constant war and switched places often as to which was faithful and which was apostate. They had prophets just like the Israelites, and their history and prophecies were recorded on golden plates which were closely guarded. After the resurrection Christ visits them, creates twelve apostles, and returns the full priesthood to them. He also turns 3 that were especially faithful into immortals and they are said to still be around today watching history unfold and waiting for the second coming. Eventually the Lamanites become completely apostate, grow and spread throughout North and South America, and completely wipe out the Nephites. The final Nephite, Moroni, takes the golden plates of their history, the bronze plates of Israel, the sword of Laban, the ummim, the thumim, and the breastplate of Aaron and buries them in a stone vault within the Hill Cummorah in what is now upstate New York. The Lamanites become the indigenous populations of North and South America but all true record of their beginnings and the priesthood is lost.
In the Middle East Judah is taken over by the Roman Empire and eventually Christ is born. He comes to earth free of sin and remains that way. Also the method of his birth. Because he is free from sin god is able to bestow the full priesthood upon him after his baptism by John the Baptist. Thus the full priesthood is returned to the Earth. The priesthood is given to the Apostles, Christ is sacrificed after having restored the true church to the Earth and ascends. The early Church is created but over time loses the priesthood after becoming completely apostate through corrupt influences from Rome as well as general corruption in the Roman Catholic Church. Eventually an attempt is made by Martin Luther and others to reform the church, but because they don�t have the priesthood it is only partially effective, a branch growing off of a dead tree.
Fast forward to upstate New York in the 1830�s. A young Joseph Smith is visited by Moroni who is now an angel who reveals the location of the plates. Over time Joseph eventually is instructed to get the plates and using the ummin and thummin (stones that were placed in a hat and then would translate the gold plates) wrote the book of Mormon. He is told he will restore the true church to the Earth and is visited by god and Christ who bestow the priesthood on him so that it would never leave the earth again. From this he goes on to found the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints. Facing persecution they generally move west ending up in Kirkland Ohio and building the first temple there. In the face of persecution they again move to Missouri where they believe the Garden of Eden was located and Zion will be built after the second coming, and then to Illinoise where they founded the city of Nauvoo. It his here that the ritual of polygamy is started after a �revolation� by god that it was proper. However, polygamy had to be ordained by god and was only available to higher church officials. Also during this period the secretive temple ceremonies were created by Smith. They built a spectacular temple and once again faced persecution from those that feared them for religious and political purposes. Eventually Joseph Smith and his brother Hyrum are arrested for the destruction of an anti-mormon paper in a neighboring town and while they are being detained in jail a mob forms. The mob comes into the jail, fatally wounds Hyrum with a gunshot wound, and then shoots Joseph as he tried to escape out of a second story window killing him and causing him to fall to the ground.
At that point the church was in turmoil as Nauvoo is burned and no clear successor to Smith was chosen before his death. A new leader rose by the name of Brigham Young and he led the mormons west where they eventually settled by the Great Salt Lake. Polygamy became more wide spread during this period also to allow young women, widows, and children to have a family structure. The population increased in the area and eventually the territory wished to become a state with Brigham Young as governor. After facing opposition due to polygamy, there was another convienent revalation by god ending polygamy and making it a sin. Utah was allowed to enter as a state but Brigham Young did not become its governor. A final convienent revelation occurred during the civil rights era when it was declared that African Americans could become priests.
Since then the population has exploded and as mentioned before the church is the fastest growing religion on Earth. However, as I said most of the population rests on the outside layer not aware of what lies within, now I would like to take things a bit further and look at doctrine as it exists to the level my research takes me. However first I�m going to post this and take a break as my eyes are losing focus from this long of a post lol.
[edit on 27-11-2004 by jukyu]
My pocket guide to Mormonism **The following is my understanding and any criticism / correction is welcome if documented.**
I�m typing this in word now as the last time I did this I lost the whole post after literally working on it for 2 hours. I hope that I can remember everything I posted. As to my personal credentials I, while never officially becoming a member, was closely associated with the LDS church for a couple of years after meeting my ex-fiance whose family had been members going all the way back to like her great great great great uncle who was Martin Harris. I put a lot of time into researching the history and doctrine of the church and this post will sum up my findings.
The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints as of 2000 had 11 million members and roughly 100 temples operating world wide. They are a very rich organization as well if not the richest having assets of 30 billion dollars in 2000 I�ve heard that�s grown to near 50 billion but I can�t authenticate the latter number. It is estimated by experts that by 2080 they will have a membership of 260 million world wide, or roughly the same as the current population of the United States. First of all let me say that the mormons are some of the nicest people you will meet. I still have friends that are mormon and I wish them no ill at all, my problem is with the church itself. However, this statement is also an explanation of how the church functions and recruits so many members (it�s the fastest growing religion on earth.) The church, to use a bad analogy from Shrek, is like an onion. It has many many layers and any given layer can be as far as one needs to go to be a faithful member of the religion for the rest of their lives. I would say the majority of the members stay on the outside layer, the nice mainstream one that seems like most protestant churches, promotes family values and geneology, and puts out those nice video�s you see on TV offering videos and free copies of the King James Bible. However, if one is of the curious sort as myself being a historian, you can dig deeper into the religion for years building many nice onion layers only to find a new doctrine or belief that while completely accepted by the church, completely shatters the current layer and forces you to rebuild yet again. That is where the true nature of the church lies and at its core is something I can only describe as sinister, so sinister in fact that I am now just able to put it together.
Its probably appropriate to start at the beginning so I shall. What follows is the history of the earth as contained in mormon doctrine using the Peal of Great Price, the Book of Mormon, and the Bible as sources. There exists in the universe, a race, our race, mankind. From the beginning of time a progression has been in place where man could through certain ceremonies, living a good life, and having the correct authority progress to the point of being a god. I will get into the exact methods later but at some point before the creation of the Earth there was a man who existed on a planet orbiting the star Kolob that followed this progression as had presumably others on his world and throughout the universe. He and his wife (yes to the mormons god has a wife that ascended with him and is just not mentioned so that she wouldn�t be taken in vain as he is) give birth to billions of spirit children as is the way of things. However, the spirit children while content in their eternity, can neither experience joy, sorrow, or progress to godhood themselves without first becoming human. It is also important to note that while they were spirits they had full knowledge of the universe and free will. The path to becoming a god meant that a planet had to be created that could sustain mortal life and the spirits would descend to become humans, experience mortal existence, go through the process of becoming a god, and then ascend after death to godhood. So, under the direction of Michael (the arch-angel from the Bible) the spirits go out into the void of space and create the earth out of materials that were present. It can be noted that at least in the past this was used to counteract evolution as fossils were just the remains of animals from planets that didn�t do so well that survived to become part of the new Earth.
After the Earth was created a great council was held to decide exactly how to send the spirits to Earth. Two plans were presented, one by the first born of God, Christ, and one by the second born, satan. The plan of Christ was that humans would descend with no knowledge of the universe but would retain free will. There would be sin in the world but they would be able to gain the knowledge of making decisions, experience the joy of making the right decisions, as well as the sorrow of making the wrong ones. To make sure that the eternal progression was not derailed by sin, Christ would descend to Earth, live a perfect life, and be sacrificed to restore the progression and allow for the forgiving of sins. With this plan not everyone would progress to the same point and some would be lost for eternity, but those that made it would progress with a wisdom that came from making decisions and resisting sin. The plan of satan however, gave humans no free will over which he presumably would rule and secretly plot to overthrow god. Everyone would progress but not at the same quality or wisdom.
As you probably figured out the first plan won and satan was livid. He raised a rebellion in heaven and was followed by a third of the spirits. The rebellion was put down and satan was defeated by Michael. Those that had rebelled were cast down to earth in the form of spirits, never to gain a human body of their own and progress. There they continue to exist trying desperately to possess people or coerce them to go against god.
After all the excitement the plan was put into place. A veil was placed between Earth and Heaven so that when the spirits became human they would have no memories of their former life. Many spirits were given special missions such as prophets, the great inventors, etc. so that if they lived good lives their mission would be revealed to them again by the Holy Ghost who would thin the veil. Michael, for instance, was chosen to be the first human. He was sent to Earth and became Adam, the first human. Since there was no sin on the Earth at this point, god communicated directly with Adam and Eve and gave them the order of progression, at this point known at the priesthood. However, there was a dilemma. Part of their mission was to have children so that more spirits could become humans. However, they did not have the knowledge of how to do this and they were forbidden to eat of the tree of life which would give them this knowledge. This was put into place so that there would have to be a sin so that there would be right and wrong in the world. So, basically at this point in the game satan is used to tempt eve into eating from the tree, then Adam, then they�re thrown out but they become aware of the world and are able to reproduce, just not in the Garden. It is important to note that as of the original sin god no longer communicates directly with man. Instead Jesus who they believe is Jehovah in the Bible, communicates with prophets who convey the will of god to the people.
So, at this point Adam and Eve have their children including Cain who kills Abel. Cain is cursed and sent away. According to doctrine this curse is dark colored skin, or essentially Cain became the first African. The reason that African Americans could not become priests was that they were said to bear the mark of Cain. Of interesting note however is that Mormons do not believe that the sin of one�s ancestors is passed on so this seems to be a contradiction. So, the descendants of Adam spread throughout the Earth which at this time is one land mass, the continents have not split. They return at one time to an area that is now roughly Missouri I believe so that Adam can address them before he dies and presumably assure that the priesthood would continue. Then they spread out again and most turn away from god.
The situation gets so bad that god picks Moses and his family to build the ark and things basically start over. The continents open up and split, the oceans are created, and mankind starts again in the area of the Middle East. Another thing that just comes to mind is the question of Cain�s descendants. Someone a couple must have survived the flood. So after the flood things go decently well however the people start to turn away from god in a unified effort. They all speak the language of Adam which is the language of god so their knowledge progresses very fast. It is not clear what they were doing, but the Tower of Babel event could have been anything from an actual tower to an advanced civilization that was about to travel to another planet thus tainting the path of progression. Whatever it was the people were given different languages so that they could not understand one another and moved out into the different areas of the Ancient world their civilization thwarted.
Of importance to the mormons is one group of people at this time, the Jaredites. They were a group (the sole group?) that stayed faithful to the teachings of god. So, they were able to keep the language of Adam and were led by god to the Americas where they became what we now call the Olmec civilization (the ones that created the giant stone heads.) They eventually fell apostate and were destroyed but their remains and their record were later found by the Nephites and make up the book of Ether.
So, after all this happens god decides to focus on one group of people with the priesthood and therefore keep it safe instead of entrusting it to the entire earth. Jehovah appears to Abraham and the Israelites are created. Abraham receives the priesthood from Melchezidek, a man that is mysterious in the Bible and the mormons speculate was either a follower of god or possibly an earlier human incarnation of Christ for the purpose of bringing the priesthood back. Either way its passed on through the Israelites for some time. Also during this this period Abraham rises to some power in Egypt and leaves an account of the creation of the world and other texts in a reformed Egyptian script on the wrappings of a mummy. These are later found by Joseph Smith when the mummy comes to America and is the basis of the Pearl of Great Price.
Eventually the tribes of Israel are created and Joseph�s is special because of his devotion to God. The priesthood also survives until the time of Moses when it is dramatically weakened. This occurs when Aaron leads the people to rebel against god by creating the golden calf and worshipping it. This abomination weakens to priesthood to what was called the Aaronic priesthood and it was continued on literally through the priest class of Israel. The nation of Israel is created and things go fine until the they become too apostate and are allowed to be conquered. Of the tribes, only two survive. The tribe of Judah eventually is freed by Cyrus the Great and allowed to return to Israel where they become the Israelites. The tribe of Joseph is saved through the prophet Lehi who under the direction of god takes his sons, their wives, a record of the books of Moses engraved on bronze plates, and the sacred items of prophecy from the temple (the breastplate of aaron, the ummum, and the thummin,) to the mediteranean. There they build a cube shaped ark with no windows and are transported to Central America. Once there they split into two people, the Nephites (Incas) who were originally faithful to god and the Lamanites (Aztec) who turned away. The rest of the tribes of Israel were absorbed by Babylon and lost to history.
Over in the Americas the two civilizations were at near constant war and switched places often as to which was faithful and which was apostate. They had prophets just like the Israelites, and their history and prophecies were recorded on golden plates which were closely guarded. After the resurrection Christ visits them, creates twelve apostles, and returns the full priesthood to them. He also turns 3 that were especially faithful into immortals and they are said to still be around today watching history unfold and waiting for the second coming. Eventually the Lamanites become completely apostate, grow and spread throughout North and South America, and completely wipe out the Nephites. The final Nephite, Moroni, takes the golden plates of their history, the bronze plates of Israel, the sword of Laban, the ummim, the thumim, and the breastplate of Aaron and buries them in a stone vault within the Hill Cummorah in what is now upstate New York. The Lamanites become the indigenous populations of North and South America but all true record of their beginnings and the priesthood is lost.
In the Middle East Judah is taken over by the Roman Empire and eventually Christ is born. He comes to earth free of sin and remains that way. Also the method of his birth. Because he is free from sin god is able to bestow the full priesthood upon him after his baptism by John the Baptist. Thus the full priesthood is returned to the Earth. The priesthood is given to the Apostles, Christ is sacrificed after having restored the true church to the Earth and ascends. The early Church is created but over time loses the priesthood after becoming completely apostate through corrupt influences from Rome as well as general corruption in the Roman Catholic Church. Eventually an attempt is made by Martin Luther and others to reform the church, but because they don�t have the priesthood it is only partially effective, a branch growing off of a dead tree.
Fast forward to upstate New York in the 1830�s. A young Joseph Smith is visited by Moroni who is now an angel who reveals the location of the plates. Over time Joseph eventually is instructed to get the plates and using the ummin and thummin (stones that were placed in a hat and then would translate the gold plates) wrote the book of Mormon. He is told he will restore the true church to the Earth and is visited by god and Christ who bestow the priesthood on him so that it would never leave the earth again. From this he goes on to found the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints. Facing persecution they generally move west ending up in Kirkland Ohio and building the first temple there. In the face of persecution they again move to Missouri where they believe the Garden of Eden was located and Zion will be built after the second coming, and then to Illinoise where they founded the city of Nauvoo. It his here that the ritual of polygamy is started after a �revolation� by god that it was proper. However, polygamy had to be ordained by god and was only available to higher church officials. Also during this period the secretive temple ceremonies were created by Smith. They built a spectacular temple and once again faced persecution from those that feared them for religious and political purposes. Eventually Joseph Smith and his brother Hyrum are arrested for the destruction of an anti-mormon paper in a neighboring town and while they are being detained in jail a mob forms. The mob comes into the jail, fatally wounds Hyrum with a gunshot wound, and then shoots Joseph as he tried to escape out of a second story window killing him and causing him to fall to the ground.
At that point the church was in turmoil as Nauvoo is burned and no clear successor to Smith was chosen before his death. A new leader rose by the name of Brigham Young and he led the mormons west where they eventually settled by the Great Salt Lake. Polygamy became more wide spread during this period also to allow young women, widows, and children to have a family structure. The population increased in the area and eventually the territory wished to become a state with Brigham Young as governor. After facing opposition due to polygamy, there was another convienent revalation by god ending polygamy and making it a sin. Utah was allowed to enter as a state but Brigham Young did not become its governor. A final convienent revelation occurred during the civil rights era when it was declared that African Americans could become priests.
Since then the population has exploded and as mentioned before the church is the fastest growing religion on Earth. However, as I said most of the population rests on the outside layer not aware of what lies within, now I would like to take things a bit further and look at doctrine as it exists to the level my research takes me. However first I�m going to post this and take a break as my eyes are losing focus from this long of a post lol.
[edit on 27-11-2004 by jukyu]
Part 2
Ok, now it is pertinent to look at some of the doctrine of the church that is �non-standard.� First and perhaps the most important is the doctrine of eternal progression. As stated before, by mormon theology this is a universal law under which even god is bound and through it he is one of many gods governing many worlds, unique only in their experiences. As humans we have the potential to become gods according to this doctrine, but correct path must be followed. Of important note, this progression is that of a male, the female progression is completely dependant on marrying a man that progresses and thus become the wife of a god and divine. One must be baptized by one holding the Aaronic priesthood and then obtain the Aaronic priesthood themselves. This is usually obtained by male members of the church in their early teens if I remember correctly. It is bestowed through the laying of hands of one that possesses it as the priesthood must be physically transferred. Next, while optional but highly suggested one must go on a mission. This is a 2 year (18 months if a female decides to do it) self financed mission to preach their gospel and doctrine in whatever portion of the world the church sees fit to send them. While not required as I said it is highly recommended and those that choose not to or even just come home early due to screwing up or getting sick are highly shunned. Utah has an extremely high suicide rate in young men of this age group, partially due to this phenominan. After one returns from their mission they are generally seen fit to receive the full or Melchezideck priesthood. This is bestowed upon them during their first visit to the temple. One has to receive a temple recommend by the bishop of their ward (local church) to be allowed inside of the temple. There many rituals take place such as marriage which is seen as being eternal when performed in the temple.
Another ritual performed there is baptism and other sacraments upon the dead. This is why the mormons are so focused on geneology. It is a doctrine that the sacraments I have mentioned and am in the process of mentioning must be performed for a person to prorgress. If they died before knowing all of this or never accepted it on Earth, they are in hot water. However, the sacraments can be performed on those still living in the deceased name and will still be valid in the eyes of god, hence this process of gradually performing the ceremonies for every deceased person in the world. The deceased can then choose whether or not to accept the sacrament. It is believed that after the second coming they will actually be able to perform these sacraments and thus allow any person who accepts them to progress.
Other things that occur in the temples are a telling of the history of the world and certain ceremonies deemed necessary for progression. I know of some if not all of them but will respect the copyright of the LDS church and not list them here. However, in a later section I will discuss their similarity to Masonic rituals and how they were changed when a member exposed them to the public. But anyway, the temple is the central part of progression and remaining in good standing with the church is required for entrance. This is quite a power hold on the membership by the hierarchy, especially since one is denied entrance to the temple if they do not give 10 percent of their income to the church. I was assured that this included people in financial hardship, even if they offered to tithe through their time and abilities.
When one dies, the next stage of progression occurs, no matter what religion or lack there of they practiced in life. Upon death everyone either goes to a place called paradise or a place called hell. These are not the Heaven and Hell that one generally thinks of, but sort of temporary housing for the departed until the second coming. The rules for getting into paradise are rather broad. One doesn�t have to be a Christian or even religious, they just had to have lived a good life and obeyed the laws they were answerable to. In other words if someone was atheist but followed the law and was generally a good person they would go to paradise. This would be the same for Muslims, Buddhists, Hindi�s, Wiccans, followers of Zoraster, Scientologists, Methodists, Catholics, and any other group you can think of. On the other hand, those that did not follow the law and were bad people go to hell where they are punished for their sins until the time of the second coming of Christ. In both places the true religion (Mormonism) is available to be learned through members of the church. By this I mean they would be in paradise and in an effort to minister to the wicked would make trips to hell to spread the word. If someone were to accept the word in paradise and have the sacraments performed for them by the living then they would be in good shape. No matter where one was though it would improve their standing upon the final judgement.
When the second coming occurs, the saints will ascend from paradise and assist in the creation of Zion, the city of god. They will also help finish out the proxy sacraments. Finally, anyone that died as a young child before they could progress will be reborn during this period to live our their lives in perfection. To the mormons those that die as young children or in birth were seen as being so perfect that they did not have suffer on Earth. Therefore the human period is just a formality to them and occurs when there is no longer sin or suffering.
After all this happens the final judgement occurs and this is where it gets tricky. Upon judgement there are essentially 4 places one can be sent, but these locations are more accurately categories and there are many many subsets within each. Starting at the bottom there is the abyss, which is worse then Hell. This is a place reserved for satan, the spirits that followed him in rebellion, and one other special subset. Anyone that was a mormon, knew their doctrines to be true, and then denounced them ends up here. So here we have another powerful mechanism for keeping someone in the church or at least not speaking out against it when they leave. This bothered me for a while after distancing myself as the prospect of ending up somewhere worse then hell is a little sobering and leads one to at least reconsider a bit.
Heaven is split into three categories that parallel periods of the Earth. The lowest is telestial and is not all that different from present day Earth. The second level is Terestrial, and is roughly equivilant to the Garden of Eden. The final and highest is the Celestial, and refers to those dwelling on Earth after it has been transferred and become the home of god.
The Telestial kingdom, as stated, is the broadest. It is home to pretty much everyone that didn�t accept the true religion and those that were thieves, rapists, murderers, etc. However the doctrine states that there are as many levels of the Telestial kingdom as there are stars in the sky so is someone was a good Muslim that never converted they would still be in a much higher level then Jack the Ripper. The Telestial kingdom is very much like the current Earth, but without sin and sorrow. It�s a nice place to live its just not the mansion overlooking the bay.
The mansion overlooking the bay is the Terrestrial kingdom. This is where Christians go that never fully accepted the mormon view of things as well as those mormons that never followed the sacraments through fully or for some reason just weren�t as good as they could have been. This place is said to have been described when Christ said �My father has many mansions (paraphrase?).� Those in the Terrestrial Kingdom become angels, the willing servants of god. I don�t know if there are levels here but since one has heard of arch-angels it seems to be a good presumption that some angels are greater then others.
The highest kingdom is the Cellestial kingdom and is reserved for those that have reached the pinnacle of progression. Those that reach this level literally become gods, get to have their own spirit children, and create their own planets to populate them with. I have been very assuredly told by members that there are also at least three levels of the Celestial Kingdom so that some enter it as higher gods then others. Beyond the obvious troubling questions about there being endless numbers of gods with their own planets in this Universe, another question has recently come to mind. If there are levels then to the mormons what level was their god and if he wasn�t at the top does that mean there are greater gods then god? At its base I believe this doctrine creates a very troubling possibility of bringing god down to the level of man while at the same time promoting man above the level of his god.
In the next section I will examine the conspiracy part of this including connections to free-masons, connections the NWO, and finally my own experiences on a spiritual level that to me lend a new danger and peril to the whole thing.
Ok, now it is pertinent to look at some of the doctrine of the church that is �non-standard.� First and perhaps the most important is the doctrine of eternal progression. As stated before, by mormon theology this is a universal law under which even god is bound and through it he is one of many gods governing many worlds, unique only in their experiences. As humans we have the potential to become gods according to this doctrine, but correct path must be followed. Of important note, this progression is that of a male, the female progression is completely dependant on marrying a man that progresses and thus become the wife of a god and divine. One must be baptized by one holding the Aaronic priesthood and then obtain the Aaronic priesthood themselves. This is usually obtained by male members of the church in their early teens if I remember correctly. It is bestowed through the laying of hands of one that possesses it as the priesthood must be physically transferred. Next, while optional but highly suggested one must go on a mission. This is a 2 year (18 months if a female decides to do it) self financed mission to preach their gospel and doctrine in whatever portion of the world the church sees fit to send them. While not required as I said it is highly recommended and those that choose not to or even just come home early due to screwing up or getting sick are highly shunned. Utah has an extremely high suicide rate in young men of this age group, partially due to this phenominan. After one returns from their mission they are generally seen fit to receive the full or Melchezideck priesthood. This is bestowed upon them during their first visit to the temple. One has to receive a temple recommend by the bishop of their ward (local church) to be allowed inside of the temple. There many rituals take place such as marriage which is seen as being eternal when performed in the temple.
Another ritual performed there is baptism and other sacraments upon the dead. This is why the mormons are so focused on geneology. It is a doctrine that the sacraments I have mentioned and am in the process of mentioning must be performed for a person to prorgress. If they died before knowing all of this or never accepted it on Earth, they are in hot water. However, the sacraments can be performed on those still living in the deceased name and will still be valid in the eyes of god, hence this process of gradually performing the ceremonies for every deceased person in the world. The deceased can then choose whether or not to accept the sacrament. It is believed that after the second coming they will actually be able to perform these sacraments and thus allow any person who accepts them to progress.
Other things that occur in the temples are a telling of the history of the world and certain ceremonies deemed necessary for progression. I know of some if not all of them but will respect the copyright of the LDS church and not list them here. However, in a later section I will discuss their similarity to Masonic rituals and how they were changed when a member exposed them to the public. But anyway, the temple is the central part of progression and remaining in good standing with the church is required for entrance. This is quite a power hold on the membership by the hierarchy, especially since one is denied entrance to the temple if they do not give 10 percent of their income to the church. I was assured that this included people in financial hardship, even if they offered to tithe through their time and abilities.
When one dies, the next stage of progression occurs, no matter what religion or lack there of they practiced in life. Upon death everyone either goes to a place called paradise or a place called hell. These are not the Heaven and Hell that one generally thinks of, but sort of temporary housing for the departed until the second coming. The rules for getting into paradise are rather broad. One doesn�t have to be a Christian or even religious, they just had to have lived a good life and obeyed the laws they were answerable to. In other words if someone was atheist but followed the law and was generally a good person they would go to paradise. This would be the same for Muslims, Buddhists, Hindi�s, Wiccans, followers of Zoraster, Scientologists, Methodists, Catholics, and any other group you can think of. On the other hand, those that did not follow the law and were bad people go to hell where they are punished for their sins until the time of the second coming of Christ. In both places the true religion (Mormonism) is available to be learned through members of the church. By this I mean they would be in paradise and in an effort to minister to the wicked would make trips to hell to spread the word. If someone were to accept the word in paradise and have the sacraments performed for them by the living then they would be in good shape. No matter where one was though it would improve their standing upon the final judgement.
When the second coming occurs, the saints will ascend from paradise and assist in the creation of Zion, the city of god. They will also help finish out the proxy sacraments. Finally, anyone that died as a young child before they could progress will be reborn during this period to live our their lives in perfection. To the mormons those that die as young children or in birth were seen as being so perfect that they did not have suffer on Earth. Therefore the human period is just a formality to them and occurs when there is no longer sin or suffering.
After all this happens the final judgement occurs and this is where it gets tricky. Upon judgement there are essentially 4 places one can be sent, but these locations are more accurately categories and there are many many subsets within each. Starting at the bottom there is the abyss, which is worse then Hell. This is a place reserved for satan, the spirits that followed him in rebellion, and one other special subset. Anyone that was a mormon, knew their doctrines to be true, and then denounced them ends up here. So here we have another powerful mechanism for keeping someone in the church or at least not speaking out against it when they leave. This bothered me for a while after distancing myself as the prospect of ending up somewhere worse then hell is a little sobering and leads one to at least reconsider a bit.
Heaven is split into three categories that parallel periods of the Earth. The lowest is telestial and is not all that different from present day Earth. The second level is Terestrial, and is roughly equivilant to the Garden of Eden. The final and highest is the Celestial, and refers to those dwelling on Earth after it has been transferred and become the home of god.
The Telestial kingdom, as stated, is the broadest. It is home to pretty much everyone that didn�t accept the true religion and those that were thieves, rapists, murderers, etc. However the doctrine states that there are as many levels of the Telestial kingdom as there are stars in the sky so is someone was a good Muslim that never converted they would still be in a much higher level then Jack the Ripper. The Telestial kingdom is very much like the current Earth, but without sin and sorrow. It�s a nice place to live its just not the mansion overlooking the bay.
The mansion overlooking the bay is the Terrestrial kingdom. This is where Christians go that never fully accepted the mormon view of things as well as those mormons that never followed the sacraments through fully or for some reason just weren�t as good as they could have been. This place is said to have been described when Christ said �My father has many mansions (paraphrase?).� Those in the Terrestrial Kingdom become angels, the willing servants of god. I don�t know if there are levels here but since one has heard of arch-angels it seems to be a good presumption that some angels are greater then others.
The highest kingdom is the Cellestial kingdom and is reserved for those that have reached the pinnacle of progression. Those that reach this level literally become gods, get to have their own spirit children, and create their own planets to populate them with. I have been very assuredly told by members that there are also at least three levels of the Celestial Kingdom so that some enter it as higher gods then others. Beyond the obvious troubling questions about there being endless numbers of gods with their own planets in this Universe, another question has recently come to mind. If there are levels then to the mormons what level was their god and if he wasn�t at the top does that mean there are greater gods then god? At its base I believe this doctrine creates a very troubling possibility of bringing god down to the level of man while at the same time promoting man above the level of his god.
In the next section I will examine the conspiracy part of this including connections to free-masons, connections the NWO, and finally my own experiences on a spiritual level that to me lend a new danger and peril to the whole thing.
Part 3: Conspiracies
I wanted to separate this part from the rest. Beforehand the information I presented was fairly well documented and with the exception of some questions presented without prejudice. Now we get into the speculative theories. I don�t even know if I believe this stuff but its interesting none the less so here goes.
There is a fairly close connection between the free-masons and the mormons and going on this theory they were created by the free-masons. As the creator of scientology said the best way to get rich quick is to create a religion. As previously stated the mormon organization has assets of somewhere near 50 billion dollars. Also what better way to get recruits then to create a religion closely resembling Christianity and throwing a bit of �mason light� rituals into the mix as it starts to take off. In a former thread I was in a discussion with someone as to whether or not Joseph Smith wrote the Book of Mormon. I speculated as to whether or not the masons may have written it and used Smith as a front man. Now I caught between this being the case or the Mason�s taking control after the church after it formed seeing its potential. I�m leaning towards the second because the Book of Mormon bears very little resemblance to the rituals and doctrine of the Church from the Nauvoo period until today.
So, my current theory is that Smith, who was a convicted treasure hunter and was said to have a stone he could put into his hat and discern where treasure was buried, decides to start a religion and that it is influenced either from the beginning or later on by the masons. What is clear is that there was a Masonic influence on Smith during this period. For starters his brother Hyrum was a Mason. This was also during the Morgan incident and Smith was said to have known Morgan. Morgan for those that don�t know fraudulently entered into a Masonic lodge, learned the rituals of free-masonry, then started writing a book revealing them when he was found out. He was later kidnapped by several members of the lodge and never seen again. So, it is possible he told Smith some of the secrets of free-masonry which influenced Smith�s later writings.
Once we get to the Nauvoo period the resemblances are noticeable and Smith as well as many of his followers are in fact Masons. There were five Masonic lodges in Nauvoo though there is some speculation as to whether or not they were authorized. When the temple at Nauvoo was built, it had several Masonic symbols such as the use of the sun, moon, and stars. One of the huge sun stones from the temple is now located at the Smithsonian. Also, if one looks at the origin story of Mormonism Smith was visited by an angel that told him where to find the writings of the lost civilization that were sealed in a stone vault. I believe that this is rather similar to the free-mason myth of the writings of Enoch being sealed in a stone vault and then revealed at the creation of the masons.
Perhaps the clearest resemblance between the two is in their temples. The temple ceremonies came into effect after Smith and others became mormons, a fact that was acknowledged by the church. The official line of the church is that Smith recognized the ancient and divine nature of these rituals and therefore implemented them into the temple. One specific example is the blood oaths taken by both groups. These oaths pledge the person involved to effectively forfeit their life though various grisley means should they reveal the secrets of the organization / church. I won�t go into the exact ceremonies due to copyrights but I will say that if you compare the two they are almost identical. One addendum, though, the church did change the oaths in (the 1960�s?) after someone released them to the general public. Now the blood oaths are not spoken but the motions symbolizing disemboweling and other means of death are still present. Finally from the past, when Smith died he was wearing a Jupiter medal, a Masonic symbol.
Now, looking into the present and a possible connection to the NWO. First of all as stated previously by 2080 the mormons are expected to have 260 million members, that�s quite a force. Now take into effect the fact that these members are more or less brainwashed to follow the orders of their superiors without question as such orders are ordered by god. This obedience takes precedence over family and country. This is interesting as it was stated in an earlier thread that a large portion of the CIA, military establishment, and other organizations are comprised of mormons. Because many mormon men serve 2 year missions in foreign countries where they become fluent in other languages and cultures they are snatched up by these services. There is even a mormon doctrine albeit not a well known one that in the final days that the United States will begin to fall apart and it will be necessary for the church hierarchy to take over the country to prevent it from collapsing.
Another interesting point is that mormons are encouraged to store a large amount of food and water in case of emergency. I believe that the family I was involved with kept around 2 years worth of non-perishable food stored away. This is a concentrated effort that takes place at the local level where members get together to can dried goods. Also you have a virtual fortress as someone mentioned in the middle of Salt Lake City with its own power source, independent water sources for every level, under ground parking facilities, a structure that could withstand a lot of punishment, not to mention an enormous grain silo with millions of tons of grain nearby. So, if the mormons, almost completely unknowingly, were part of the NWO by 2080 you would have 260 million people spread throughout the world with enough resources to sustain themselves for 1-2 years independently of any outside help. These people are organized under a system of command with a prophet at the top and are willing to take commands from their superiors as the word of god. Not only that, if they have been following the words of wisdom they are in good shape and not dependant on any substance such as caffeine or nicotine. Finally, it is commonly taught by the mormons that these are the last days so they would be prepared to act under the assumption that they are participating in Armageddon. So basically to sum things up you would have a force of 260 million acting on command with idea where their orders are originating from so that they have plausible deniability. Not only would they be able to act with the fervor that religion brings, they are able to act independently of most if not all resource distribution structures our society depends on. If its not the case its quite a story.
I wanted to separate this part from the rest. Beforehand the information I presented was fairly well documented and with the exception of some questions presented without prejudice. Now we get into the speculative theories. I don�t even know if I believe this stuff but its interesting none the less so here goes.
There is a fairly close connection between the free-masons and the mormons and going on this theory they were created by the free-masons. As the creator of scientology said the best way to get rich quick is to create a religion. As previously stated the mormon organization has assets of somewhere near 50 billion dollars. Also what better way to get recruits then to create a religion closely resembling Christianity and throwing a bit of �mason light� rituals into the mix as it starts to take off. In a former thread I was in a discussion with someone as to whether or not Joseph Smith wrote the Book of Mormon. I speculated as to whether or not the masons may have written it and used Smith as a front man. Now I caught between this being the case or the Mason�s taking control after the church after it formed seeing its potential. I�m leaning towards the second because the Book of Mormon bears very little resemblance to the rituals and doctrine of the Church from the Nauvoo period until today.
So, my current theory is that Smith, who was a convicted treasure hunter and was said to have a stone he could put into his hat and discern where treasure was buried, decides to start a religion and that it is influenced either from the beginning or later on by the masons. What is clear is that there was a Masonic influence on Smith during this period. For starters his brother Hyrum was a Mason. This was also during the Morgan incident and Smith was said to have known Morgan. Morgan for those that don�t know fraudulently entered into a Masonic lodge, learned the rituals of free-masonry, then started writing a book revealing them when he was found out. He was later kidnapped by several members of the lodge and never seen again. So, it is possible he told Smith some of the secrets of free-masonry which influenced Smith�s later writings.
Once we get to the Nauvoo period the resemblances are noticeable and Smith as well as many of his followers are in fact Masons. There were five Masonic lodges in Nauvoo though there is some speculation as to whether or not they were authorized. When the temple at Nauvoo was built, it had several Masonic symbols such as the use of the sun, moon, and stars. One of the huge sun stones from the temple is now located at the Smithsonian. Also, if one looks at the origin story of Mormonism Smith was visited by an angel that told him where to find the writings of the lost civilization that were sealed in a stone vault. I believe that this is rather similar to the free-mason myth of the writings of Enoch being sealed in a stone vault and then revealed at the creation of the masons.
Perhaps the clearest resemblance between the two is in their temples. The temple ceremonies came into effect after Smith and others became mormons, a fact that was acknowledged by the church. The official line of the church is that Smith recognized the ancient and divine nature of these rituals and therefore implemented them into the temple. One specific example is the blood oaths taken by both groups. These oaths pledge the person involved to effectively forfeit their life though various grisley means should they reveal the secrets of the organization / church. I won�t go into the exact ceremonies due to copyrights but I will say that if you compare the two they are almost identical. One addendum, though, the church did change the oaths in (the 1960�s?) after someone released them to the general public. Now the blood oaths are not spoken but the motions symbolizing disemboweling and other means of death are still present. Finally from the past, when Smith died he was wearing a Jupiter medal, a Masonic symbol.
Now, looking into the present and a possible connection to the NWO. First of all as stated previously by 2080 the mormons are expected to have 260 million members, that�s quite a force. Now take into effect the fact that these members are more or less brainwashed to follow the orders of their superiors without question as such orders are ordered by god. This obedience takes precedence over family and country. This is interesting as it was stated in an earlier thread that a large portion of the CIA, military establishment, and other organizations are comprised of mormons. Because many mormon men serve 2 year missions in foreign countries where they become fluent in other languages and cultures they are snatched up by these services. There is even a mormon doctrine albeit not a well known one that in the final days that the United States will begin to fall apart and it will be necessary for the church hierarchy to take over the country to prevent it from collapsing.
Another interesting point is that mormons are encouraged to store a large amount of food and water in case of emergency. I believe that the family I was involved with kept around 2 years worth of non-perishable food stored away. This is a concentrated effort that takes place at the local level where members get together to can dried goods. Also you have a virtual fortress as someone mentioned in the middle of Salt Lake City with its own power source, independent water sources for every level, under ground parking facilities, a structure that could withstand a lot of punishment, not to mention an enormous grain silo with millions of tons of grain nearby. So, if the mormons, almost completely unknowingly, were part of the NWO by 2080 you would have 260 million people spread throughout the world with enough resources to sustain themselves for 1-2 years independently of any outside help. These people are organized under a system of command with a prophet at the top and are willing to take commands from their superiors as the word of god. Not only that, if they have been following the words of wisdom they are in good shape and not dependant on any substance such as caffeine or nicotine. Finally, it is commonly taught by the mormons that these are the last days so they would be prepared to act under the assumption that they are participating in Armageddon. So basically to sum things up you would have a force of 260 million acting on command with idea where their orders are originating from so that they have plausible deniability. Not only would they be able to act with the fervor that religion brings, they are able to act independently of most if not all resource distribution structures our society depends on. If its not the case its quite a story.
Section 4: The spiritual side and my dilemma
What follows is my own experience and events that occured in my life from the summer of 1998 until the summer of 2000. It is not a conspiracy theory it is a very personal thing to me and information I haven�t quite figured out how to utilize.
I am a born again Christian. I was raised Christian and decided to stay one on my own accord after the following experience. In 1997 I met a girl and fell in love with her. It was a high-school romance that blossomed to the point that we became engaged. There was only one issue, she was mormon and I was Methodist. I knew this would always be a source of conflict in our lives so I started looking earnestly into the LDS church. I started attending services, went to church functions, and studied / discussed the religion extensively with her and her family. By the summer of 1998 I wanted to join but I was still struggling with the whole thing, I just couldn�t convince myself that the church was true. So, when the opportunity came to go on a pilgrimage to Palmyra New York and Kirkland Ohio I jumped on it as a way to help me figure out one way or the other which way to go.
During the trip I read the Book of Mormon a great deal, finishing it on the bus after having watched an LDS production of the Book of Mormon that takes place each year on the side of the Hill Cummorah. At the end of the book there is a passage that implores the reader that after they have finished the work they should pray to god and ask if what they read was true. It is then promised that they will receive a burning in their breast and that the holy ghost will make it clear to them that it is indeed the truth. So, as I was struggling I prayed the prayer and almost immediately had a reaction. At first it started as a burning in the chest just as the book had said. However before I continue let me say again that I am a born again Christian meaning that I have asked for forgiveness of my sins through the sacrifice of Jesus Christ and received the gift of the true Holy Ghost. It is an amazing experience and not a singular occurance as the Holy Ghost really does allow one to gain insight on spiritual issues and allows one to gain a higher level of understanding and self while under Its power. However one thing I will say is that the Holy Ghost, while powerful, is very quiet and gentle and allows one to come to new understanding on ones own without directly relaying the information. Its almost like a reversed Socratic method where the person involved answers their own questions but is able to come to those questions and their answers due to inspiration. But anyway people have tried for two thousand years to characterize the Holy Ghost so I will move on because I�m sure you get the idea.
As I said I felt a burning in my chest, right behind the breast as indicated in the Book of Mormon. I was admittedly impressed. Then, I heard a voice inside my head (not an actual voice, its hard to explain it as anything else though) telling me that it was the holy ghost and what I was feeling was the truth. I questioned it in my mind and the burning got stronger and the voice got stronger assuring me that I was on the right track and making the right decision. However, in the back of my head there was a quiet voice, quiet clear telling me that I knew what the truth was and it had nothing to do with what I was experiencing. As time progressed the forceful spirit got louder and louder as it possessed me and tried to convince me with force. However throughout the whole thing the quiet voice was there, its presence never changed but looking back on it now it was very apparent that this voice was infinitely stronger then the forceful voice, no matter how strong it got. This continued until I was literally paralyzed, all I could do was stare straight forward while this battle took place inside of me. Afterwards I talked to my fianc� about it and she told me that she had looked over at me and gotten scared because I was sitting motionless staring forward with tears rolling down my face. Finally I gave into the forceful spirit and allowed myself to believe that the mormon church was the true church and allowed the other spirit into my life. I tried for another year to be happy and join the church but that voice was always in the back of my head making things just uncomfortable enough that I could never settle into the flow of things with the church.
Finally I broke up with my fianc� over another issue and had a chance to examine things. For about a year I pretty much abandoned religion all together and felt particularly empty as I tried to rid myself of that spirit. I literally was not able to until I literally took a trip out into the wilderness for several weeks of camping away from the rest of the world. It was here, close to God through nature that things were finally quiet enough that I listened to the quiet voice and with its help drove the other spirit from me and felt whole again. Later on I realized a couple more things about this ordeal. During the year after Palmyra no matter what I did I could not pray out loud for others. I could pray silently to myself but nothing else. I also came to realize that during this period when I was trying to convert I literally went through about 6 sets of missionaries and only through about half of their lessons that preceed conversion. Something would always come up, usually on their part lol, that prevented them from coming back and finishing things. Its amazing in hind sight how clearly the hand of God can be seen in one�s life.
So, here is my real premise in all of this. This is part that is becoming a reality to me and scares me more then anything. There is a spirit out there connected with this religion and it is not of God. It is extremely strong and extremely eager to possess the willing and assure them that the church and its mandates are true. The church is growing fast. If one were to join, have the experience I had without the knowledge of God and the true holy spirit, how would they know the false spirit from the real thing? Would the tenacity of this spirit not make them very fervent in their religion as most mormons are. I mean under the influence of it when you do what it wants its very nice, you feel good. When you don�t as I showed before it can get very forceful indeed and I know personally only through the assistance of God could I rid myself of it. If you think that its your god to begin with, what hope do you have?
Ok its finally done. Please Please Please Please pretty please post away and comment. Thanks
[edit on 27-11-2004 by jukyu]
What follows is my own experience and events that occured in my life from the summer of 1998 until the summer of 2000. It is not a conspiracy theory it is a very personal thing to me and information I haven�t quite figured out how to utilize.
I am a born again Christian. I was raised Christian and decided to stay one on my own accord after the following experience. In 1997 I met a girl and fell in love with her. It was a high-school romance that blossomed to the point that we became engaged. There was only one issue, she was mormon and I was Methodist. I knew this would always be a source of conflict in our lives so I started looking earnestly into the LDS church. I started attending services, went to church functions, and studied / discussed the religion extensively with her and her family. By the summer of 1998 I wanted to join but I was still struggling with the whole thing, I just couldn�t convince myself that the church was true. So, when the opportunity came to go on a pilgrimage to Palmyra New York and Kirkland Ohio I jumped on it as a way to help me figure out one way or the other which way to go.
During the trip I read the Book of Mormon a great deal, finishing it on the bus after having watched an LDS production of the Book of Mormon that takes place each year on the side of the Hill Cummorah. At the end of the book there is a passage that implores the reader that after they have finished the work they should pray to god and ask if what they read was true. It is then promised that they will receive a burning in their breast and that the holy ghost will make it clear to them that it is indeed the truth. So, as I was struggling I prayed the prayer and almost immediately had a reaction. At first it started as a burning in the chest just as the book had said. However before I continue let me say again that I am a born again Christian meaning that I have asked for forgiveness of my sins through the sacrifice of Jesus Christ and received the gift of the true Holy Ghost. It is an amazing experience and not a singular occurance as the Holy Ghost really does allow one to gain insight on spiritual issues and allows one to gain a higher level of understanding and self while under Its power. However one thing I will say is that the Holy Ghost, while powerful, is very quiet and gentle and allows one to come to new understanding on ones own without directly relaying the information. Its almost like a reversed Socratic method where the person involved answers their own questions but is able to come to those questions and their answers due to inspiration. But anyway people have tried for two thousand years to characterize the Holy Ghost so I will move on because I�m sure you get the idea.
As I said I felt a burning in my chest, right behind the breast as indicated in the Book of Mormon. I was admittedly impressed. Then, I heard a voice inside my head (not an actual voice, its hard to explain it as anything else though) telling me that it was the holy ghost and what I was feeling was the truth. I questioned it in my mind and the burning got stronger and the voice got stronger assuring me that I was on the right track and making the right decision. However, in the back of my head there was a quiet voice, quiet clear telling me that I knew what the truth was and it had nothing to do with what I was experiencing. As time progressed the forceful spirit got louder and louder as it possessed me and tried to convince me with force. However throughout the whole thing the quiet voice was there, its presence never changed but looking back on it now it was very apparent that this voice was infinitely stronger then the forceful voice, no matter how strong it got. This continued until I was literally paralyzed, all I could do was stare straight forward while this battle took place inside of me. Afterwards I talked to my fianc� about it and she told me that she had looked over at me and gotten scared because I was sitting motionless staring forward with tears rolling down my face. Finally I gave into the forceful spirit and allowed myself to believe that the mormon church was the true church and allowed the other spirit into my life. I tried for another year to be happy and join the church but that voice was always in the back of my head making things just uncomfortable enough that I could never settle into the flow of things with the church.
Finally I broke up with my fianc� over another issue and had a chance to examine things. For about a year I pretty much abandoned religion all together and felt particularly empty as I tried to rid myself of that spirit. I literally was not able to until I literally took a trip out into the wilderness for several weeks of camping away from the rest of the world. It was here, close to God through nature that things were finally quiet enough that I listened to the quiet voice and with its help drove the other spirit from me and felt whole again. Later on I realized a couple more things about this ordeal. During the year after Palmyra no matter what I did I could not pray out loud for others. I could pray silently to myself but nothing else. I also came to realize that during this period when I was trying to convert I literally went through about 6 sets of missionaries and only through about half of their lessons that preceed conversion. Something would always come up, usually on their part lol, that prevented them from coming back and finishing things. Its amazing in hind sight how clearly the hand of God can be seen in one�s life.
So, here is my real premise in all of this. This is part that is becoming a reality to me and scares me more then anything. There is a spirit out there connected with this religion and it is not of God. It is extremely strong and extremely eager to possess the willing and assure them that the church and its mandates are true. The church is growing fast. If one were to join, have the experience I had without the knowledge of God and the true holy spirit, how would they know the false spirit from the real thing? Would the tenacity of this spirit not make them very fervent in their religion as most mormons are. I mean under the influence of it when you do what it wants its very nice, you feel good. When you don�t as I showed before it can get very forceful indeed and I know personally only through the assistance of God could I rid myself of it. If you think that its your god to begin with, what hope do you have?
Ok its finally done. Please Please Please Please pretty please post away and comment. Thanks
[edit on 27-11-2004 by jukyu]
Very informative read about the Mormons. I did not know that much about their religion. It took me a little while but I read all of the sections.
So you think that this spirit that entered you was not of our Christian God? I'm glad you found a way to rid yourself of it.
It sounds as if you had a really tough time during that ordeal.
While you had this spirit in you did it affect your personality? Make you act differently or think differently?
So you think that this spirit that entered you was not of our Christian God? I'm glad you found a way to rid yourself of it.
It sounds as if you had a really tough time during that ordeal.
While you had this spirit in you did it affect your personality? Make you act differently or think differently?
I think your three posts are well done, and I commend you for saying where (the third one) you leave widely accepted belief to slide over to a more
conjectural POV. Many posts here start off with basic facts and then veer off into speculation without the poster being honest or sharp enough to
tell you where the facts leave off and the "maybe" starts.
I'd like to make a few points, though to complement yours.
First, all of the "onion" stuff, i.e., different layers of knowledge, aren't really hidden from the body of church membership. All the mythos you mention can be found in Doctrines of Salvation by President Joseph Fielding Smith, edited and with annotation by his son-in-law Bruce R. McConkie, one of the most brilliant of Mormon theologians. Also, James Talmadge's Jesus the Christ, while not a "Standard Work" per se, is common enough that almost every missionary I know takes it with him on his Mission.
Now this doesn't mean that all Mormons know the detail of their own religion's hagiography; you can say the same thing about most other denominations. The great teacher and doctor who founded my particular cult would argue theology with a Bible in one hand and a stein of beer in another, smuggled a nun (later his wife) from a convent in a hay-wagon, and positively hated Jews. Yet you ask the typical member of my church to talk about Martin Luther, and ninety-nine out of a hundred won't know about that, either!
Second, the food storage business is highly recommended, but I do not believe it is a requirement for a Temple Recommend (like the Word of Wisdom and tithing is). Back in early 1999, as a run-up to the now-forgotten Y2K concern, our small preparedness group (seven families, of which only two were Mormons) were availed of the cannery for our stuff. In one case, we went one weekend with the Ward of one of our group and spent about sixteen hours canning for the survivors a Caribbean hurricane (Irene?) and then the next week where we canned our own goods, including lots of wheat, rice, sorghum, corn, etc.
And finally, other means of self-protection: The First Presidency doesn't say squat about firearms; although there are probably a higher percentage of Mormons who hunt, it depends on the individual family. My friend's wife, a past President of the Relief Society in their Ward, refuses to have guns in the house and won't even let her husband buy a .22 for plinking!
Anyway, these are just nits I'm picking. Your posts were good ones. Thanks.
I'd like to make a few points, though to complement yours.
First, all of the "onion" stuff, i.e., different layers of knowledge, aren't really hidden from the body of church membership. All the mythos you mention can be found in Doctrines of Salvation by President Joseph Fielding Smith, edited and with annotation by his son-in-law Bruce R. McConkie, one of the most brilliant of Mormon theologians. Also, James Talmadge's Jesus the Christ, while not a "Standard Work" per se, is common enough that almost every missionary I know takes it with him on his Mission.
Now this doesn't mean that all Mormons know the detail of their own religion's hagiography; you can say the same thing about most other denominations. The great teacher and doctor who founded my particular cult would argue theology with a Bible in one hand and a stein of beer in another, smuggled a nun (later his wife) from a convent in a hay-wagon, and positively hated Jews. Yet you ask the typical member of my church to talk about Martin Luther, and ninety-nine out of a hundred won't know about that, either!
Second, the food storage business is highly recommended, but I do not believe it is a requirement for a Temple Recommend (like the Word of Wisdom and tithing is). Back in early 1999, as a run-up to the now-forgotten Y2K concern, our small preparedness group (seven families, of which only two were Mormons) were availed of the cannery for our stuff. In one case, we went one weekend with the Ward of one of our group and spent about sixteen hours canning for the survivors a Caribbean hurricane (Irene?) and then the next week where we canned our own goods, including lots of wheat, rice, sorghum, corn, etc.
And finally, other means of self-protection: The First Presidency doesn't say squat about firearms; although there are probably a higher percentage of Mormons who hunt, it depends on the individual family. My friend's wife, a past President of the Relief Society in their Ward, refuses to have guns in the house and won't even let her husband buy a .22 for plinking!
Anyway, these are just nits I'm picking. Your posts were good ones. Thanks.
I posted the above before you posted your last of four posts; that is an interesting story indeed. My friends (who, of course, would dearly love to
convert my family and me), have talked about asking yourself if the Gospel is True and mentioning a "burning in the bosom" as God talks to you.
Needless to say, I have never felt that; but my belief about such is the same as my belief about other religious things such as stigmata (markings on the palms, etc.) -- it's probably a very strong case of religious hysteria.
In any event, I'm glad you're in a place where you're happy with your beliefs; I am too!
Needless to say, I have never felt that; but my belief about such is the same as my belief about other religious things such as stigmata (markings on the palms, etc.) -- it's probably a very strong case of religious hysteria.
In any event, I'm glad you're in a place where you're happy with your beliefs; I am too!
First of all, I'm only on part 2, but I am extremely impressed already. I'd just like to make a few corrections to it so that eventually you can
make this summary near-perfect. Once again, kudos on a job extremely well done so far!
Corrections:
1. The stones you called the ummim and thummim are actually the urim and thummim. I'm not sure of the exact spelling, although that looks correct, but its pronounced the "yer-um and thumb-um". I'm not entirely sure, but I believe these are the same stones that God blessed and turned into sources of light for...I believe it was for the ship they rode in to get to the "promised land", aka the Americas.
2. Young menreceive the Aaronic Priesthood at the age of 12, unless they admit to not being worthy. This is done by the laying on of hands, as you mentioned. At the age of 18 young men receive the Melchizedek Priesthood. This is done BEFORE their missions, not after. As soon as you receive the Melchizedek Priesthood you are known as Elder, which all male missionionaries go by.
3. Also, when you go to the Temple around the time you receive the Melchizedek Priesthood, it's probably not your first time in the Temple, although it's definitely your first time in certain areas of the temple. From the time you receive the Aaronic Priesthood at the age of 12, you are allowed to enter the Temple to do baptisms for the dead.
4. The two places one goes to immediately after death are called Paradise and The Spirit Prison. (One or both of these areas are here on earth, which I guess is the Church's way of explaining ghosts.) The terms for getting into Paradise are actually not very broad at all, Paradise is the place where the devout Mormons go. I believe Jesus is there with them and that's why the non-devout Mormons and non-Mormons are not allowed there. God however is still not in the picture. Those who dwell in Paradise spend their time travelling to The Spirit prison as missionaries, spreading the Gospel to those who are in The Spirit Prison in order to try and save them before the Final Judgement Day. (Hell is the place where the original one-third population of Heaven who followed Lucipher reside, and is where the few people deemed "Sons of Perdition" will end up after the Final Judgement. Very few people will go to the place called Hell. You kind of touched on it, but a Son of Perdition is defined as "Someone who denies the Holy Ghost with full knowledge of the Gospel" or something to that effect.)
5. Just because you didn't seem to have much of an idea of the Telestial Kingdom, Joseph Smith claims to have seen it in a vision and said that if any human being, (aside form himself apparently), were to see it, even though it is the lowest level Heaven, that there is nothing he could do to resist from committing suicide just to get there. Those are almost his exact words.
6. Just a note, not a correction by any means: The Mormons believe every human will reseurrected and become immortal. Only those who were righteous and did all the things they were supposed to receive eternal life, which is defined as "immortality in the company of God." The worst part, supposedly, of living in the lower level of Heaven, is that you do not get to see/be with your Father - God. In order to reach the Celestial Kingdom one must be married for Eternity, which is known as Sealing and is done in the Mormon Temples. The wife cannot receive Eternal Life and advance to the Celestial Kingdom without a husband who is worthy. She cannot receive Eternal life until he calls her by her Heavenly name which she received in the Temple on earth. Also, kind of interesting, the Mormons believe the Earth will be transformed in the last days, and receive what they call, its "Paradasiacal Glory", where basically it will turn into Heaven. I can't remember if it becomes the Telestial, Terestrial, or Celestial Kingdom.
7. I know you can't put everything in, and it's quite long as it is. But for those who wish to learn some other interesting things about the Mormon Church you could study a little about Patriarchal Blessings and the Ten Lost Tribes of Israel. (A controversy amongst the Mormons themselves.) For instance, in my Patriarchal Blessing I was told I am of the Tribe of Ephraim. (Oh, I;m supposed to keep that sacred. Woops!)
Okay, I just finished it, and aside from a few unimportant grammatical errors, the above are the only things I found that might need to be considered before you publish a book about it.
However, I was so thoroughly impressed by the whole thing that...I don't even know what to say. Please know that my suggestions above are only to there in order to make an incredible piece of writing slightly more accurate. You have my congratulations on a job VERY well done!
[edit on 28-11-2004 by an3rkist]
Corrections:
1. The stones you called the ummim and thummim are actually the urim and thummim. I'm not sure of the exact spelling, although that looks correct, but its pronounced the "yer-um and thumb-um". I'm not entirely sure, but I believe these are the same stones that God blessed and turned into sources of light for...I believe it was for the ship they rode in to get to the "promised land", aka the Americas.
2. Young menreceive the Aaronic Priesthood at the age of 12, unless they admit to not being worthy. This is done by the laying on of hands, as you mentioned. At the age of 18 young men receive the Melchizedek Priesthood. This is done BEFORE their missions, not after. As soon as you receive the Melchizedek Priesthood you are known as Elder, which all male missionionaries go by.
3. Also, when you go to the Temple around the time you receive the Melchizedek Priesthood, it's probably not your first time in the Temple, although it's definitely your first time in certain areas of the temple. From the time you receive the Aaronic Priesthood at the age of 12, you are allowed to enter the Temple to do baptisms for the dead.
4. The two places one goes to immediately after death are called Paradise and The Spirit Prison. (One or both of these areas are here on earth, which I guess is the Church's way of explaining ghosts.) The terms for getting into Paradise are actually not very broad at all, Paradise is the place where the devout Mormons go. I believe Jesus is there with them and that's why the non-devout Mormons and non-Mormons are not allowed there. God however is still not in the picture. Those who dwell in Paradise spend their time travelling to The Spirit prison as missionaries, spreading the Gospel to those who are in The Spirit Prison in order to try and save them before the Final Judgement Day. (Hell is the place where the original one-third population of Heaven who followed Lucipher reside, and is where the few people deemed "Sons of Perdition" will end up after the Final Judgement. Very few people will go to the place called Hell. You kind of touched on it, but a Son of Perdition is defined as "Someone who denies the Holy Ghost with full knowledge of the Gospel" or something to that effect.)
5. Just because you didn't seem to have much of an idea of the Telestial Kingdom, Joseph Smith claims to have seen it in a vision and said that if any human being, (aside form himself apparently), were to see it, even though it is the lowest level Heaven, that there is nothing he could do to resist from committing suicide just to get there. Those are almost his exact words.
6. Just a note, not a correction by any means: The Mormons believe every human will reseurrected and become immortal. Only those who were righteous and did all the things they were supposed to receive eternal life, which is defined as "immortality in the company of God." The worst part, supposedly, of living in the lower level of Heaven, is that you do not get to see/be with your Father - God. In order to reach the Celestial Kingdom one must be married for Eternity, which is known as Sealing and is done in the Mormon Temples. The wife cannot receive Eternal Life and advance to the Celestial Kingdom without a husband who is worthy. She cannot receive Eternal life until he calls her by her Heavenly name which she received in the Temple on earth. Also, kind of interesting, the Mormons believe the Earth will be transformed in the last days, and receive what they call, its "Paradasiacal Glory", where basically it will turn into Heaven. I can't remember if it becomes the Telestial, Terestrial, or Celestial Kingdom.
7. I know you can't put everything in, and it's quite long as it is. But for those who wish to learn some other interesting things about the Mormon Church you could study a little about Patriarchal Blessings and the Ten Lost Tribes of Israel. (A controversy amongst the Mormons themselves.) For instance, in my Patriarchal Blessing I was told I am of the Tribe of Ephraim. (Oh, I;m supposed to keep that sacred. Woops!)
Okay, I just finished it, and aside from a few unimportant grammatical errors, the above are the only things I found that might need to be considered before you publish a book about it.
However, I was so thoroughly impressed by the whole thing that...I don't even know what to say. Please know that my suggestions above are only to there in order to make an incredible piece of writing slightly more accurate. You have my congratulations on a job VERY well done!
[edit on 28-11-2004 by an3rkist]
jukyu,
First I want to thank you for the informative posts you have written, I have been glued to them all day as you were posting.
Second, I would like to appluad you for all of your hard work.
I am not religious, but I am always curious to learn about religion and have been curious about the Mormons since I first saw a Temple.
First I want to thank you for the informative posts you have written, I have been glued to them all day as you were posting.
Second, I would like to appluad you for all of your hard work.
I am not religious, but I am always curious to learn about religion and have been curious about the Mormons since I first saw a Temple.
By the way, I never considered the food supply thing to have anything to do with a conspiracy. My family, as do the majority of Mormon families, have
a one-year supply of food in their basement. The Mormon religion has facilities where you can go and get canned foods and such at ridiculously low
prices and sometimes even free. Every year at the annual General Conference the General Authorities preach on the importance on having ATLEAST a
one-year supply of food. They also stress the importance on having a "72 hour kit", which is basically enough supplies to sustain the family for
seventy-two hours kept in an easy to grab backpack or whatever in case they need to leave the house in a hurry. This is something I completely
overlooked!
an3rkist,
I'm just curious. What is in a year's food supply?
What do you keep in a 72 hour kit?
I'm just curious. What is in a year's food supply?
What do you keep in a 72 hour kit?
Originally posted by Jbeth73
an3rkist,
I'm just curious. What is in a year's food supply?
What do you keep in a 72 hour kit?
There's no set standard, but our year-supply of food was just a bunch of non-perishable foods, like canned meat, dried fruit, wheat and stuff. Not to mention a TON of water. You're also encouraged to have flashlights, batteries, knives, and other survival stuff you deem worthy of your year supply.
The 72 hour kit, you can google it and find already put together ones for sale I'm sure. It would just have small foods, like snacks and beef jerky and stuff. Enough to get you by for 72 hours. I guess in the evnt that you have to travel somewhere without being able to stop and buy stuff due to a natural disaster or something. Maybe someday the Prophet will call for all the Mormons to make a pilgrimage to Salt Lake City, living only off their seventy-two hour kits or something. Or maybe it's just a good thing to have in case a natural disaster hits and you need to get to a disaster relief base as quickly as possible. It would also have stuff like flashlights, batteries, a blanket maybe, matches/lighter, drinks, a cell phone perhaps, anything you think would be necessary for one.
It was Noah that built the Ark.
Other than that, absolutley superb.
I've been a Mormon all my life, although the past 14 years, I have not been. I'm having a hell of a time getting my name off the records. So I've been doing research and sharing information about the church with active members. I've been called an apostate quite a few times and feel that my excommunication could happen very soon.
I'll add more to your post later. Thanks for making this topic.
Other than that, absolutley superb.
I've been a Mormon all my life, although the past 14 years, I have not been. I'm having a hell of a time getting my name off the records. So I've been doing research and sharing information about the church with active members. I've been called an apostate quite a few times and feel that my excommunication could happen very soon.
I'll add more to your post later. Thanks for making this topic.
From an semi-religious person (meaning at times I thing religion is all a joke to others where I feel quite content with the idea that there is
someone watching over me) I feel you have captured a great religious experience in which you have made what sounds like the right choice for you.
Overall your information has made me think about my own beliefs and what would I do in the same situation
Well written. Great piece of writing.
Ron23x
Well written. Great piece of writing.
Ron23x
Originally posted by thirddensity
It was Noah that built the Ark.
Other than that, absolutley superb.
I've been a Mormon all my life, although the past 14 years, I have not been. I'm having a hell of a time getting my name off the records. So I've been doing research and sharing information about the church with active members. I've been called an apostate quite a few times and feel that my excommunication could happen very soon.
I'll add more to your post later. Thanks for making this topic.
Oh yeah, I forgot to mention that Moses didn't build the Ark. Good one thirddensity!
By the way, I've been doing some research on getting my name removed from the records myself, although I haven't tried yet. In myresearch though, I keep running into something a little disturbing. I don't know how true it is, but I've heard they never actually remove your name from the records, even if they finally say they did. I heard that at most they'll just put the word "Removed" next to your name on the records or something. I do know that the Mormons have noticed that I haven't paid my tithing in awhile, and they have actually put quite a bit of effort in finding me. I lived on a mountain all by myself once, and they came all the way the two hour road in four feet of snow to try and get me to start coming back to church. (I don't know how they found me up there.) And then when I joined the Army and came to Korea, they found me here, too. And I actually took some precautions to try and keep them from finding me here! They're crazy and relentless!
Hi again. I like to make a few more points.
Mormons do not believe in hell. What you called the abyss and another called spirit prison are two different things. Spirit Prison, as was stated, is where everyone unworthy goes where they die. Then you have the three degrees of glory that all have infinate layers. What you referred to as the abyss is actually called outer darkness. This is where the Sons of Perdition go. These are the people that have know the gospel and became heretics. You literally cease to exist. Period.
You also mentioned that the oaths of the endowment ceremony of the temple changed. Well, they changed again in the early 90's and no longer contain anything about disembowlment or death threats. If you want a detail for detail account on what goes on inside the temple along with one man's thoughts on the meanings, you must read this:
www.geocities.com...
Now why should anyone pray to God to see if the Book of Mormon is true? It allegedly contains the fullness of the gospel. (but that's a whole new post). If you have to ask God if it is true, wouldn't that be implying that God is a liar? I feel that you have been influenced by the mormon demigod Elohim. (fallen angel?) The orliginal God that created Elohim and everything in existance is completley different than the God Mormons worship. Think about it. Any mormon will tell you that Elohim had to do exactly what we have to do to attain Godhood. So why does the mormon buck stop at him? I prefer to worship the source, the Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end. By implying that nothing matters beyond Elohim, it certainly reminds me of what Satan wanted to do in the first place. To rebel against God.
And to share a piece of my Patriarchal Blessing, I stood by the side of Michael the Archangel and personally helped expel Satan from God's presence. Therefore, I am greatly hated by the evil one.
If anyone reading this is a devout mormon that wants to report an apostate, I am ready to deny ignorance. Please report the following your your Bishop or Stake President:
William Austin
Columbia City, IN Branch
I have a lot more to share if you want to hear OP. Anyone can feel free to U2U me if you want to talk off the record.
Mormons do not believe in hell. What you called the abyss and another called spirit prison are two different things. Spirit Prison, as was stated, is where everyone unworthy goes where they die. Then you have the three degrees of glory that all have infinate layers. What you referred to as the abyss is actually called outer darkness. This is where the Sons of Perdition go. These are the people that have know the gospel and became heretics. You literally cease to exist. Period.
You also mentioned that the oaths of the endowment ceremony of the temple changed. Well, they changed again in the early 90's and no longer contain anything about disembowlment or death threats. If you want a detail for detail account on what goes on inside the temple along with one man's thoughts on the meanings, you must read this:
www.geocities.com...
Now why should anyone pray to God to see if the Book of Mormon is true? It allegedly contains the fullness of the gospel. (but that's a whole new post). If you have to ask God if it is true, wouldn't that be implying that God is a liar? I feel that you have been influenced by the mormon demigod Elohim. (fallen angel?) The orliginal God that created Elohim and everything in existance is completley different than the God Mormons worship. Think about it. Any mormon will tell you that Elohim had to do exactly what we have to do to attain Godhood. So why does the mormon buck stop at him? I prefer to worship the source, the Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end. By implying that nothing matters beyond Elohim, it certainly reminds me of what Satan wanted to do in the first place. To rebel against God.
And to share a piece of my Patriarchal Blessing, I stood by the side of Michael the Archangel and personally helped expel Satan from God's presence. Therefore, I am greatly hated by the evil one.
If anyone reading this is a devout mormon that wants to report an apostate, I am ready to deny ignorance. Please report the following your your Bishop or Stake President:
William Austin
Columbia City, IN Branch
I have a lot more to share if you want to hear OP. Anyone can feel free to U2U me if you want to talk off the record.
wow, great topic! The information you posted is pretty accurate, and you're right, it's right for some, but not others. I too was a Mormon most of
my life. Received the Aaronic priesthood when I was 12, but never made it to go on my mission. I dont think there's any kind of conspiracy when it
comes to the food storage. My parents have about a 2 year supply enough for 4 people; I think it's a great idea to be prepared in case of an
emergency. If/when the poopy hit's the fan, they'll be prepared.
As far as guns go, most of the people I've ever met through the church were gun freaks (they all had huge cache's of weapons and munitions). My situation with the church is similar to others that have posted here about it. I think it's a great religion for kids to grow up in; they receive strong moral values, and good ethics, with a sense of duty to their fellow man. The thing that I question most is Joseph Smith's Freemason background. If any of you have been married in the temple, or have become an Elder, you know about the handshake's and what not. All in all though, I dont think there's any particular conspiracy; if there is the general membership doesnt know about it.
As far as guns go, most of the people I've ever met through the church were gun freaks (they all had huge cache's of weapons and munitions). My situation with the church is similar to others that have posted here about it. I think it's a great religion for kids to grow up in; they receive strong moral values, and good ethics, with a sense of duty to their fellow man. The thing that I question most is Joseph Smith's Freemason background. If any of you have been married in the temple, or have become an Elder, you know about the handshake's and what not. All in all though, I dont think there's any particular conspiracy; if there is the general membership doesnt know about it.
Originally posted by thirddensity
What you referred to as the abyss is actually called outer darkness.
Ah, yes. I forgot it was called that. I've been away for too long. WHOA! Did I just say that? You're mind powers won't work on me this time President Hinckley!
Originally posted by thirddensity
Any mormon will tell you that Elohim had to do exactly what we have to do to attain Godhood. So why does the mormon buck stop at him? I prefer to worship the source, the Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end. By implying that nothing matters beyond Elohim, it certainly reminds me of what Satan wanted to do in the first place. To rebel against God.
Not to be defensive of the Mormon's teachings, but just for the sake of argument I'll tell you the way this controversial subject was explained to me when I was a Mormon and I questioned this:
"Yes, there are other Gods besides ours. It says so in the Book of Mormon. God had to go through the same thing we are going through, so there was obviously a God over Him. However, those other gods don't exist TO US. To US, the only God that exists is our Heavenly Father, Elohim." (I might add that they rarely refer to him as Elohim, I only used it there to specify which one I was referring to. Obviosly I don't believe this, but I had to say it just to be argumentative. It made sense to me at the time, and from a Mormon's point of view it does. Atleast, as much sense as "eternity" makes.
Originally posted by thirddensity
And to share a piece of my Patriarchal Blessing, I stood by the side of Michael the Archangel and personally helped expel Satan from God's presence. Therefore, I am greatly hated by the evil one.
I remember one of the quotes from my Patriarchal Blessing was, "You fought in the war in Heaven. You were one of Heavenly Father's valiant warrior's, one of his noblest." Maybe we're supposed to keep those sacred because they all say basically the same thing? I'd also like to mention that mine said I would see visions, and I kid you not, I started having visions the next day. The power of suggestion never ceases to amaze me!
Originally posted by thirddensity
If anyone reading this is a devout mormon that wants to report an apostate, I am ready to deny ignorance. Please report the following your your Bishop or Stake President:
William Austin
Columbia City, IN Branch
You don't think they don't know already?
Thanks for the correction on Moses lol. Thats what I get for writing a 12 page paper twice, the first copy got erased as I was trying to save it ,
and then posting it before I really proofread lol.
Originally posted by an3rkist
For instance, in my Patriarchal Blessing I was told I am of the Tribe of Ephraim. (Oh, I;m supposed to keep that sacred. Woops!)
[edit on 28-11-2004 by an3rkist] [/quote
I'm really not sure how to put this, and I do not want to offend anyone but Iwas not aware that you had to keep any thing "sacred" I thought to spred the word you needed to talk about it, not copyright it. this is god not a company were talking about. so why are there copyrights to what they are saying in the church's. and the thing that gets me is it so "sacred" that they change it when someone talks about it.
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