The hypocrisy of those against the proposed AZ law (regarding gays)

Please don't come with that (yawn, yawn!) "individual rights" arguments - it's the root of all the PC bull**** we have today because everyone and their mama wants their "individual rights". Again...BS...

If I don't like your nose and I "feel" like I want to punch you because of it, do you also give me the right to do so?
I think you should since the holy constitution says so?

I mean I could make a pretty good argument that I would want MY OWN PERSONAL RIGHT that I can punch you whenever I like and feel like it,irrespective of how illogical my reasoning behind it may be.


>>
I retain the right to hire/fire/refuse to hire anyone I choose for whatever reason I choose.
>>

Yeah, that's the US for you. Good riddance. In Europe, for instance, firing someone needs a valid reason. You cannot just fire someone "for whatever reason I choose". And guess what system I consider the better one

One day, I tell you, your country will suffocate on its obsession with "individual rights", it's already on the best way there where PC very real affects freedom of the society as a whole, such as...pulling an example out of my hat, when it's forbidden to say "Merry Christmas".

So whose right "counts more"...the homosexuals right to go shopping like any other "normal" person..or the right of the business owner to deny service to them? Why should the ONE right have preference over the other? And what "right" is that which requires limitation of rights of others?

reply to post by NoRulesAllowed


With limited personal freedoms and confiscatory tax rates, you can keep your eurogarbage system over there

Just remember who saved your asses 7 decades ago

doubletap
reply to post by NoRulesAllowed

 

With limited personal freedoms and confiscatory tax rates, you can keep your eurogarbage system over there

Just remember who saved your asses 7 decades ago

What personal freedoms should that be? List ONE.

NoRulesAllowed


What personal freedoms should that be? List ONE.

Should we really debate the personal ownership of firearms in Europe?

How about the limits imposed on free speech under the guise of "hate speech" lol

Where would you like to start?

doubletap
reply to post by NoRulesAllowed

 

With limited personal freedoms and confiscatory tax rates, you can keep your eurogarbage system over there

Just remember who saved your asses 7 decades ago

You never saved anyone's arses, your forefathers did and that was not until 1941 after the Japanese bombed pearl harbour.

Is there anyone you like? You seem to have bashed every group on this thread. I think you are the most bigoted member I have ever seen on ATS.

Side note to MODs, can we have an annual awards ceremony?

flammadraco

Is there anyone you like? You seem to have bashed every group on this thread. I think you are the most bigoted member I have ever seen on ATS.

Side note to MODs, can we have an annual awards ceremony?

Surely you can post links to my posts where I denigrate any race, or any group of people that show my obvious hatred then, correct?

>>
The individual and property rights of business owners to not get lower priority than those of these ridiculous "protected classes".
>>

WRONG.

We have two groups here, minorities (whether they be gay, black, whatever) and business owners.

Granting the business owner a right to deny service based on religion or whatever other subjective opinion is discrimination.
Saying someone can deny African Americans etc. service is also discrimination.

The discriminated group will have a VERY REAL disadvantage, eg. when they cannot buy goods or get services.

Granting the MINORITIES the right and freedom (ie: by rejecting the business owner the 'right' to deny them service) has NO negative effect whatsoever EXCEPT a pure subjective for the business owner because he "does not like" to service those people.

Obviously, the REAL disadvantage of denying people service and make it impossible that they can buy stuff weighs MUCH MORE than someone's subjective opinion where things only happen in their head.

So..the one right DOES indeed have a higher priority since it has a very real (say again: VERY REAL) effect, the other right does not.

And..by the way..I think it's embarrassing to even having to discuss this...I am feeling like I am talking through a time-travel device to people from 1955. I am still baffled about the BS your country is wasting its time with nowadays in a time where there SHOULD BE much more pressing issues. Are your clocks running backwards? Are religious fundamentals now finally entirely snapping or what's going on there? As I said on another place...what's next? A call to deny Blacks and Jews service maybe?

reply to post by doubletap


No need to point out your views to you. I shall not waste my time. What I will say is that I am a business owner in the UK and if I had the same mentality as you to refuse custom, I'd be bankrupt. I deal with thousands of customers a week mostly face to face all over the UK from all walks of life and ethnicity. It would be commercial suicide to hold your views here in the UK.

I've been to the states many times and stayed for months at a time, mainly in the south and IMO I found the US far more bureaucratic than the UK.

reply to post by doubletap


Definition of Bigot btw.

bigot
ˈbɪgət/
noun
1.
a person who is bigoted.
"religious bigots"
synonyms: dogmatist, partisan, sectarian, prejudiced person; More
Origin

flammadraco


No need to point out your views to you. I shall not waste my time.

So you cannot substantiate your ridiculous claims.

Got it.

doubletap

flammadraco


No need to point out your views to you. I shall not waste my time.

So you cannot substantiate your ridiculous claims.

Got it.

What's ridiculous is the fact that in 2014 in a country that sent man to the moon, there are people like you that believe that businesses should have the rights to refuse service to the public. Civilised society regards that as discrimination, you call it your rights.

flammadraco

doubletap

flammadraco


No need to point out your views to you. I shall not waste my time.

So you cannot substantiate your ridiculous claims.

Got it.

What's ridiculous is the fact that in 2014 in a country that sent man to the moon, there are people like you that believe that businesses should have the rights to refuse service to the public. Civilised society regards that as discrimination, you call it your rights.

This shouldn't surprise you. The United States is the most Right-wing leaning industrialized nation in the world.

muse7



This shouldn't surprise you. The United States is the most Right-wing leaning industrialized nation in the world.

Supporting individual and property rights is considered right wing?

So, you are basically saying the left respects neither of those.

No need to actually state that, its obvious.

reply to post by flammadraco


Just a quick yes or no question.....

Do you believe everyone has the right to shop wherever they want, regardless of what the person who actually owns the business thinks?

reply to post by doubletap


As long as the customer is not breaking the law then damn right a business does not have the right to refuse service. It's called discrimination.

Human rights supersede religious rights any day of the week.

flammadraco


As long as the customer is not breaking the law then damn right a business does not have the right to refuse service. It's called discrimination.

Human rights supersede religious rights any day of the week.

Shopping at any store is not a human right.

I'm not coming at this from the religious angle, as I said in my initial post I despise religion. This is about the individual and property rights of the owner of the business.

Just to correct you.....a business always reserves the right to refuse service. It isnt always the best business decision, but it is their personal choice to do so. Business owners cannot be forced to provide products or services to anyone who walks in, no matter how much you think they do.

Now, why dont you post links to some of my posts where I denigrated any group of people since you seem to think I hate everyone?

reply to post by flammadraco


Did you really post a definition of a word that uses the word to define itself?

doubletap

Shopping at any store is not a human right.

Shopping at any store which is Open to the Public means if you're Open and they are part of the Public then they can shop there.

I'm not coming at this from the religious angle, as I said in my initial post I despise religion and its followers. This is about the individual and property rights of the owner of the business.

So start a Members Only business not one that is open to the General Public. If not, then expect that members of the General Public will come there to do business with you.

Just to correct you.....a business always reserves the right to refuse service. It isnt always the best business decision, but it is their personal choice to do so. Business owners cannot be forced to provide products or services to anyone who walks in, no matter how much you think they do.

Correct, if there is a legit reason to refuse business to someone then that's fine. What reason is there to not conduct business with someone because they attracted to people of the same sex??? Who someone is attracted to in their personal lives isn't by itself a reason to not conduct business with them other than for Religious Bias against someone. Or do you have an example to show different???

Nobody is forcing anyone to provide anything they aren't already providing. If the business is Open for Business and people are allowed to come in and conduct business then that's it. Why is a Gay person who comes in to do business any different than a straight person who comes in to do business??? If they are there to buy a product or service which you are there to sell and they have money for it, what other reason do you have to not do business with them??? Especially since you aren't claiming Religious Reasons, what reason are you talking about???

Now, why dont you post links to some of my posts where I denigrated any group of people since you seem to think I hate everyone?

Maybe you haven't literally typed out on here the words "I hate Gay People for no other reason than because they are gay." But you sure seem to imply it based off the fact that you want to treat them differently than everyone else but give no other reason than just because you want to.

mOjOm


Shopping at any store which is Open to the Public means if you're Open and they are part of the Public then they can shop there.

If the owner decides they are not welcome there, or that the owner does not wish to do business with them, they must leave. There is no right. Somehow, in your deluded little mind, you equate that to a human right???? Uh huh lol

So start a Members Only business not one that is open to the General Public. If not, then expect that members of the General Public will come there to do business with you.

I cannot be forced to do business with them.

Correct, if there is a legit reason to refuse business to someone then that's fine. What reason is there to not conduct business with someone because they attracted to people of the same sex??? Who someone is attracted to in their personal lives isn't by itself a reason to not conduct business with them other than for Religious Bias against someone. Or do you have an example to show different???

The business owner decides the legit reason for refusal of business. Not you, not government.

Nobody is forcing anyone to provide anything they aren't already providing. If the business is Open for Business and people are allowed to come in and conduct business then that's it. Why is a Gay person who comes in to do business any different than a straight person who comes in to do business??? If they are there to buy a product or service which you are there to sell and they have money for it, what other reason do you have to not do business with them??? Especially since you aren't claiming Religious Reasons, what reason are you talking about???

Whatever reason said business owner decides is appropriate.

Maybe you haven't literally typed out on here the words "I hate Gay People for no other reason than because they are gay." But you sure seem to imply it based off the fact that you want to treat them differently than everyone else but give no other reason than just because you want to.

You should try reading some of my other posts. I guess my support of gays being able to get married shows I just utterly despise them, doesnt it?

I'm not singling out only gay people here, the AZ bill was just a popular topic of conversation. I have said numerous times that business owners should be able to decline business to anyone they want for whatever reason. Whites owners and black owners alike should be able to decline each others business if they feel the urge to do so. I'm white, and I've been refused service at a black owned business simply because I was white. (yes, it was verbalized) No need to cry about it or get hurt feelings, I simply went to their competition.

I have refused service to whites in my business as well, its my right to do so.

doubletap

I cannot be forced to do business with them.

Nobody is forcing you dude. YOU started the business. YOU opened your doors to the public. YOU are servicing the Public. YOU choose to do this, nobody is forcing anything on you. YOU did it. If you don't want to do it, then close up shop or change the type of business you run to a Members Only. Don't try and blame others for something YOU did.

The business owner decides the legit reason for refusal of business. Not you, not government.

So what is that legit reason then??? Or do you not have one???

Whatever reason said business owner decides is appropriate.

Oh really, then what is the reason???

You should try reading some of my other posts. I guess my support of gays being able to get married shows I just utterly despise them, doesnt it?

I'm not singling out only gay people here, the AZ bill was just a popular topic of conversation. I have said numerous times that business owners should be able to decline business to anyone they want for whatever reason. Whites owners and black owners alike should be able to decline each others business if they feel the urge to do so. I'm white, and I've been refused service at a black owned business simply because I was white. (yes, it was verbalized) No need to cry about it or get hurt feelings, I simply went to their competition.

I have refused service to whites in my business as well, its my right to do so.

This is YOUR thread right??? YOU typed the title of it in when YOU created it yes??? YOUR title says:

The hypocrisy of those against the proposed AZ law (regarding gays)

YOU seem to have trouble taking responsibility for the things YOU do.