When we find a second earth

reply to post by Dianec


fusion is good for the bottom edge of relativistic speed to mid range relativistic speed. really for nearby stars FTL is not needed. ant at high relativistic speed time dilation would cause the crew of a ship to age only a few weeks while crossing the galaxy. of course this would be a one way trip because back home 140,000 years would elapse.

never the less at least two credentialed physicists are working on enabling technologies for FTL travel. Dr White of NASA and Dr Woodward both have relativity conformative methods of FTL.

here is Dr. White's :www.youtube.com...

here is Dr Woodward's:

vimeo.com...

bonus John Cramer presentation:

www.youtube.com...

reply to post by Dianec


I think you have a little more faith in people than me. It seems that the only thing that really brings people together on a large scale like that is a threat of some kind. It's sad. I like your optimism though.

reply to post by Dianec


Don't worry the second we find another earth, we'll probably destroy each other or try to steal each others resources.

reply to post by stormbringer1701


reply to post by stormbringer1701


Dr Woodward didn't give time frames but I'm sure this would match Dr. Whites estimates - 70 days to Mars. I found the Mach effect the most fascinating - although dated and deficiencies exist according to Dr. Cramer. I think it makes the most sense to me because I'm not well versed, and because it works with what you have in the universe - distant influences. The propulsion system is altered using gravity in distant matter, which changes inertia and therefore can work with wormholes. Why then not integrate that into the other ideas presented - specially Dr. Cramer's work with the Einstein - Rosen bride theory, since his is such a quick trip - 59 days to Kepler 32E - 1200 light years away?

Whatever happens - I'm sure with minds like this working on it we will be seeing our knowledge of the universe transform us far more than I've proposed in here. I do believe whatever we find out there will transform what happens here. The more we know the better off we will be, as long as we are able to grasp our own existence in perspective to this. Thank you for the links. They were fascinating.

reply to post by Holographicmeat


Thank you for that. I based it off of how it made me feel personally and how others have told me it would make them feel. I suppose it depends on how one chose to integrate it. Ideally - we find intelligent life out there at the same time but another earth would be the next best thing. The idea is that it would shake people up and provide a way to make the topic salient through the world. The idea that we could be being visited would be more accepted if we can know life does exist (have more evidence), and can travel there too. That is sort if a threat if you think about it - a threat to the present comfort zone of knowledge.

Dianec
reply to post by stormbringer1701

 

reply to post by stormbringer1701

 

Dr Woodward didn't give time frames but I'm sure this would match Dr. Whites estimates - 70 days to Mars. I found the Mach effect the most fascinating - although dated and deficiencies exist according to Dr. Cramer. I think it makes the most sense to me because I'm not well versed, and because it works with what you have in the universe - distant influences. The propulsion system is altered using gravity in distant matter, which changes inertia and therefore can work with wormholes. Why then not integrate that into the other ideas presented - specially Dr. Cramer's work with the Einstein - Rosen bride theory, since his is such a quick trip - 59 days to Kepler 32E - 1200 light years away?

Whatever happens - I'm sure with minds like this working on it we will be seeing our knowledge of the universe transform us far more than I've proposed in here. I do believe whatever we find out there will transform what happens here. The more we know the better off we will be, as long as we are able to grasp our own existence in perspective to this. Thank you for the links. They were fascinating.

Dr. White's QVPT is a separate thing. though there is an interesting aside or two or three about that. what i was getting at is his alcubierre variant. it is modeled with certain assumptions so as to provide usable figures for presentations and these are not the upper limits of his drive system. but assuming a normal space speed of .1 C it can get a global speed of 10 times light speed. thats ten light years of travel per year or a trip to alpha centauri in less than 5 months.

the basic operating principle of his current model is that whatever the current speed of the ship through normal space is multiplied by 100 C. So if instead of a ship travelling through space at .1 C you had one travelling at .999 C you warp speed would be nearly 1000 times the speed of light and that is without further optimization of either the warp ring or the driving energy form. since one factor is the permitivity of space and that can be altered by modulating the warp field there is room for further improvements in the warp factor. Whites speed is determine by at least three factors, ring geometry, permitivity, and real space speed.

Cramer's overview of Woodwards work is dated. Woodward is continuing to slowly research his ideas to get a uncontrovertable sigma. the full extension of Woodward's work is instantaneous travel by what he calls absurdly benign wormholes. though at present he is not shooting for a wormhole but just sufficient data and repeatability to prove the principle so that he can hope to convince independant researchers to try to replicate and validate his work. extraordinary claims require extraordinary proof.

as to the QVPT thing it looks to me that you could modify it to greatly alter the efficiency of any propulsion system. if you had the same sort of direct action against the vacuum going on in the exhaust pathways of a fusion drive it should bust the current calculated maximum efficiency and speed which is about 35 percent C. if you could use a quantum thrust component of the wasted energy of such drives you should be able to get a fusion drive above .5 c. that's a SWAG and not a mathematical derived figure there. but you should get an efficiency boost whether it would be of that magnitude or not.

also if you noticed in his presentation he expects future advanced forms of the QVPT to ultimately turn into a FTL drive in its own right that would take just hours to days to get to the nearest stars.

you are welcome for the links. i am pretty sure that at some point at least one of the "fringe" FTL schemes will work. Not that Dr White or Dr Woodward are in the fringe. but one thing i really like about the QVPT?

well it does look for all the world like a home made amateur wound coil and capacitor garage inventor's (read that "kook" if you want) toy made on a plywood homemade coil winding jig. and that means making one would be in the typical person's means. it would be the ultimate irony if NASA makes a warp drive and it is identical to the workings of hundred of home "pseudo-scientists" as they are ridiculed and marginalized all the time. how kooky! if NASA makes a warp drive and it is a Rodin coil or something like that.

BTW a little additional zing for Mach and woodward:

www.universetoday.com...

the upshot: gravity requires wormholes to connect gravitationally interacting masses no matter how distant. if you think of it this is almost an exact rationalization of Mach's principle. additionally entanglement requires wormholes. and strong force interactions confine the strong force carriers w and z to tubes rather than spherical clouds. these tubes; if you think about it resemble wormholes too.

this was one article on a quantum gravity theory that is gaining acceptance that is basically a description of Mach's theory of gravity and inertia. there were several articles like this that came out at roughly the same time. some just reiterated the entanglement angle.

you could say this vindicates and strengthen's Mach and Woodward.

reply to post by stormbringer1701


Yes I noticed Woodwards theory was about the basics, but it makes sense. I will get a little metaphysical in here because I've also been following the thread on disproving entanglement. People have experienced weird things through time. Reports of knowing something is going to happen an instant before it does or having time slow down when something really shocking happens (car accident, roller coaster, etc). One is attempting to prove that what is out there impacts what is in here (us), and the other side is trying to get out there to see more. What I would like to see is them combine the two. Perhaps it will take going out there at warp speed to get to that point but it would seem they could do this. I'll watch your next video when I'm off work tonight. Thanks again.

reply to post by stormbringer1701


I realized your link wasn't a video so was able to read it from where I'm at today. It explains it well but brings up more questions (tons of them actually).

If only Einstein could be here - knowing that the speed of travel is infinite - there is likely no limit. I have to wonder - if they put these ideas to the test might they find any camera put inside such a vessel would be ineffective? Assuring all parts can survive our own atmosphere (i.e., space shuttle), they encase it in special tiles but what is proposed is a speed that is nearly impossible to comprehend. It's going to be an expensive devise to build, and it might just disappear - forever - without any evidence it made it or not.

Your knowledge about the topic is high. It would be nice to have a single thread that would provide an ongoing process of communicating about this. More minds contributing - could trigger further insight for those well versed in the process. If thoughts can manipulate time - forward, backward, simultaneous….we can certainly see this recreated outside of the mind.

Dianec
reply to post by stormbringer1701

 

I realized your link wasn't a video so was able to read it from where I'm at today. It explains it well but brings up more questions (tons of them actually).

If only Einstein could be here - knowing that the speed of travel is infinite - there is likely no limit. I have to wonder - if they put these ideas to the test might they find any camera put inside such a vessel would be ineffective? Assuring all parts can survive our own atmosphere (i.e., space shuttle), they encase it in special tiles but what is proposed is a speed that is nearly impossible to comprehend. It's going to be an expensive devise to build, and it might just disappear - forever - without any evidence it made it or not.

Your knowledge about the topic is high. It would be nice to have a single thread that would provide an ongoing process of communicating about this. More minds contributing - could trigger further insight for those well versed in the process. If thoughts can manipulate time - forward, backward, simultaneous….we can certainly see this recreated outside of the mind.

well in the Kramer video in the question and answer period at the end of his presentation there was a gentleman who was consulted for Dr Sagan's movie. his job was to help the visual effects people figure out what a worm hole would look like visually. he and other physicists concluded that a wormhole would not be the familiar vortex looking thing but a blister or hemispherical distortion in which light arriving from the other side of the wormhole would be reversed. they actually traced the path of photons through a wormhole to arrive at that conclusion. so what your camera probably should see is a reverse image of the destination. the visual effects people decided the familiar vortex would be more cinematographically appealing and rejected the more realistic rendition. sort of like how science fiction movies almost always have sounds in space despite it being unrealistic.

you do not have to worry about stresses or damage to objects travelling or poked into the wormhole. wormholes like this are absurdly benign in that regard. there are no tidal forces and so on. however; touching the "sides" of the tunnel would probably be catastrophic. i have read that doing so would collapse the wormhole and it is likely that the disjunction between the local space and exterior space distances and velocities would destroy objects within it as reality tries to resolve the disparity between the two sets of conflicting space and time coordinates and the values of all properties that are conserved in the real universe. cosmic road rash.

concerning Dr White's QVPT: he is not the only one to ever come up with a quantum thruster. at the NASA advanced propulsion topics forum there is a rather heated accusation that his QVPT was actually Dr Woodward's idea. but even disregardng the fact that often more than one person comes up with the same idea at the same time and it is quite possible that Dr White's source was not Woodward there are other quantum thruster designs that are demonstrably independent inventions for example:

gizmodo.com...






here is Woodward's organization's webpage: ssi.org...

another mach effect video at the latest NAIC conference.

synopsis:

15 mn presentation from "A Matter Of Some Gravity" by Gary Hudson during the 2014 NASA Institute for Advanced Concepts Symposium (NIAC 2014).

This is the third part of Gary Hudson's presentation, detailing current research about Mach Effect conducted by physicist James Woodward at Cal State Fullerton, and funded by the Exotic Propulsion Initiative of the Space Studies Institute, aimed to show that a revolutionary type of field propulsion for interstellar travel is possible.

Gary Hudson is president of the Space Studies Institute, aerospace consultant specialized in reusable rockets (Phoenix SSTO, Percheron, Roton, DC-X...), founder of T/Space, Rotary Rocket Company, Airlaunch LLC, Pacific American Launch Systems and HMX Ltd. Founder's award-wining of the Space Frontier Foundation, inductee of the International Space Hall of Fame, Fellow ok the British Interplanetary Society, Associate fellow of the AIAA.

Fund the research at: [redacted]

This research is well explained in Jim Woodward's book "Making Starships and Stargates: The Science of Interstellar Transport and Absurdly Benign Wormholes", Springer Publishing, 2013: [redacted]

www.youtube.com...

*funding link and book seller link redacted to prevent spamming accusations

I heard the part on the wormhole - had to revisit it because it was a short segment that I didn't pick up on previously. I then looked up what some have it looking like (visually) online. This one seems to come close to what they are saying I think. Grainy and extremely distorting (no doubt they would have to put a human into a deep sleep for such a trip). It actually made me a little nauseous watching it. They have the white light (or exit), but I think the static is too hard to apply visually.

youtu.be...

It could be like this - or it could be that time goes so slow it's a comfortable trip. After all - they do say as things speed up time for us slows down. Would we still exist as we are in that context though - as ourselves. I can't help but think of that movie with Jody Foster - Contact. If your in the hole do you stay anchored to our reality or simply allow it to take you where it may. Fascinating stuff.

reply to post by stormbringer1701


Just checked out all of your latest links.

The fact that they have realized the propulsion system has to use physics rather than fuel (as we think of fuel) - and all agree on that appears to be the simple part. I hope to see them continue to work with each other's ideas - not thinking of it as stealing but rather advancing. These minds as one can take us to our former and/or future selves (or whatever is out there), within the next decade (or maybe 2-3 years).

Based of all you've shown me I have hope (and even a little anxiety) over the fact that this is happening. They should absolutely not have to grovel for funding. Limited funds shouldn't be in these guys' vocabulary. The implications for this are endless, and I still think they will be nothing but positive.

I'm going to re-watch the first video you linked yesterday (Dr. White). I got lost a few times but now that I have read more I think I can understand it better. Then perhaps I can engage in more intelligent dialogue about the technicalities with you and others who may want to (whether here or if you begin a new thread).

If they do find a second earth I hope all the upper 10% go there.

You would be surprised how well the bottom 90% can take care of itself when they don't have to give up 80% of their wealth to people who have for centuries learned how to legally steal from the rest.

I would like to make it a one way only trip and in 500 years compare who is the happier of the two.
A) The people who got their ticket through greed. avarice and their ability to take what someone else made.
B) the people who have to value friendship family and the ability to work with their hands to make something.

a reply to: Dianec

We haven't learned to live on this one yet. We just pollute, rape, destroy and abuse it. We can't let our cancerous nature loose upon the rest of the universe.

I've noticed that this thread hasn't been written in, in some time...

But has anybody thought that maybe, just maybe we're already on the second Earth? (Or third or fourth??)

It could go a way to explaining RK's or RL's as well as the "theories" that we (as human beings) have used technology or flown planes before the Wright Bro's etc.