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Obama's $300B infrastructure plan

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posted on Feb, 26 2014 @ 01:40 PM
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It's funny that when sprawl, population growth, centralized food and water sources, conglomerate controls, urban politicians imposing their will on rural people, gas prices and environmental pollution, frivolous and wasteful consumption etc... are all pissing folks off the POTUS proposes spending $300 billion on the very thing that makes all these problems possible.

Collapse of the roadways would be a wonderful thing IMO.

Think local, rip up the interstate.
edit on 26-2-2014 by thisguyrighthere because: (no reason given)




posted on Feb, 26 2014 @ 01:41 PM
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reply to post by oblvion
 





Didnt we just spend upward of $700,000,000,000 on "shovel ready" infrastructure projects like 3 or 4 years ago?


Yep in the last 7 years we have spent over 7 trillion dollars without a GD thing to show for it, other than debt



posted on Feb, 26 2014 @ 01:41 PM
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reply to post by neo96
 


And thats my point neo, IT keeps doubling, you can't compare it because we don't know, its not keeping pace with entitlement growth.

THAT is a problem.

SSI IOU

Lets not even discuss why SSI is an "entitlement" by the way.
edit on 26-2-2014 by benrl because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 26 2014 @ 01:45 PM
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Wrabbit2000
reply to post by neo96
 


What happened to the near 900 billion for "shovel ready" work in 2009? Kinda...pot holed, didn't it? I saw some work done, but nothing remotely like almost 1 trillion dollars worth of work. We ought to be driving gold lined streets in cities lit by our own brilliance after that orgy of spending ..yet..how much was actually done?


We only spent that on Iraq's infrastructure, not ours.



posted on Feb, 26 2014 @ 01:49 PM
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thisguyrighthere
It's funny that when sprawl, population growth, centralized food and water sources, conglomerate controls, urban politicians imposing their will on rural people, gas prices and environmental pollution, frivolous and wasteful consumption etc... are all pissing folks off the POTUS proposes spending $300 billion on the very thing that makes all these problems possible.

Collapse of the roadways would be a wonderful thing IMO.

Think local, rip up the interstate.
edit on 26-2-2014 by thisguyrighthere because: (no reason given)


Well, taken to its logical conclusion that would take the Collapse of defense spending as well, both scenarios I would agree with.

Government works best when it is held with the strict restraints, take away the Credit cards and strangle it.

That would shrink it down to a manageable size that doesn't encroach on anyone liberty.

Let them worry about how they are going to pay for the spying equipment rather than what people are reading and watching.



posted on Feb, 26 2014 @ 01:52 PM
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Krazysh0t
reply to post by neo96
 


So what is wrong with building roads? Do you not drive on interstates or something?


Don't you know it's better to keep the overbloated military industrial complex fed instead of our taxes fixing the roads that our people and businesses use on a daily basis? Who cares if a bridge falls apart we need another multi billion dollar aircraft carrier that we don't need because we only have five times as many as any other nation.



posted on Feb, 26 2014 @ 01:53 PM
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it wouldn't matter if it helped Americans, if it's an "Obama plan"...it's dead on arrival in the house



posted on Feb, 26 2014 @ 01:53 PM
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neo96

Krazysh0t
reply to post by neo96
 


So what is wrong with building roads? Do you not drive on interstates or something?


Gee I don't know what is wrong with building roads ?

Other than emulating China, with their trillions spent on ghost cities, and roads to nowhere.



You DO realize that our infrastructure is crumbling into unusability? I'd say that we have a LONG way to go of repairing and rebuilding existing roads, bridges, and tunnels before we have to worry about building new roads that don't go anywhere. Your point is dumb.

2013 Report Card for American Infrastrucure: Roads


Roads: D

Forty-two percent of America’s major urban highways remain congested, costing the economy an estimated $101 billion in wasted time and fuel annually. While the conditions have improved in the near term, and Federal, state, and local capital investments increased to $91 billion annually, that level of investment is insufficient and still projected to result in a decline in conditions and performance in the long term. Currently, the Federal Highway Administration estimates that $170 billion in capital investment would be needed on an annual basis to significantly improve conditions and performance.


Please don't make up silly comparisons to China until you MAYBE have a point. The fact of the matter is that our roads are in TERRIBLE shape and need to be improved.
edit on 26-2-2014 by Krazysh0t because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 26 2014 @ 01:55 PM
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neo96
reply to post by oblvion
 





Didnt we just spend upward of $700,000,000,000 on "shovel ready" infrastructure projects like 3 or 4 years ago?


Yep in the last 7 years we have spent over 7 trillion dollars without a GD thing to show for it, other than debt


Wow, I just used the calculator to make a quick calculation here.

$7,000,000,000,000/300,000,000= $23,333.33 for each American........WHERE THE DUCK IS MY CHECK FOR $23,333.33?

If they would have taken that same sum of money and just given it out to all the tax payers the entire economy would have righted itself overnight.

Instead they funneled to their cronies bank accounts, now they are just getting greedy wanting to spend $300,000,000,000 more.



posted on Feb, 26 2014 @ 01:55 PM
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neo96
reply to post by oblvion
 





Didnt we just spend upward of $700,000,000,000 on "shovel ready" infrastructure projects like 3 or 4 years ago?


Yep in the last 7 years we have spent over 7 trillion dollars without a GD thing to show for it, other than debt


You mean like the trillions we have spent on the "war on terror" that we have nothing to show for? Besides raising hatred against America around the globe that is.



posted on Feb, 26 2014 @ 01:55 PM
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benrl

Let them worry about how they are going to pay for the spying equipment rather than what people are reading and watching.


Totally.

Funny that a viable infrastructure connecting everyone and everything is a wonderful thing from a Big Brother standpoint.

In that way this $300 billion is essentially just more "defense" spending. Defense against all of us on whom the NSA spies.



posted on Feb, 26 2014 @ 01:59 PM
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reply to post by buster2010
 





Don't you know it's better to keep the overbloated military industrial complex fed instead of our taxes fixing the roads that our people and businesses use on a daily basis?


Apparently not!

It's better to keep the bloated Union, and welfare Industrial Complex instead.

Your taxes ?

Like property tax,toll road taxes, Lotteries, and the famous gas tax that both the state, and federal make a killing off of.

Guess you ignored the earlier comment that explained the nanny state created the 'infrastructure' so called problem because both the state, and the feds have too many mouths to feed.

That has taken money from them roads.

Who cares!

The White House is in this thread too.

Woo hoo!



posted on Feb, 26 2014 @ 02:01 PM
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reply to post by Krazysh0t
 





You DO realize that our infrastructure is crumbling into unusability? I'd say that we have a LONG way to go of repairing and rebuilding existing roads, bridges, and tunnels before we have to worry about building new roads that don't go anywhere. Your point is dumb.


Yes sirrie!

Point how out 7 trillion dollars that have been blown in the past 7 years is 'dumb'.

Explaining to people just what is the direct cause of 'infrastructure' in decline is also 'dumb'.

But please by all means.

Please continue parroting White House talking points.

That shows who the 'dumb' ones are.



posted on Feb, 26 2014 @ 02:04 PM
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buster2010

neo96
reply to post by oblvion
 





Didnt we just spend upward of $700,000,000,000 on "shovel ready" infrastructure projects like 3 or 4 years ago?


Yep in the last 7 years we have spent over 7 trillion dollars without a GD thing to show for it, other than debt


You mean like the trillions we have spent on the "war on terror" that we have nothing to show for? Besides raising hatred against America around the globe that is.


No I mean like the 'war on poverty' since the days of Roosevelvt that doesn't have a GD thing to show for it.

After 80s years of robbing from the rich what do progressives have to show for it ?

WHAT ?

More people dependent on government, broke, and out of work than in this entire nations history.

Another helping of Obama 'stupid' sure is going to solve those problems.



posted on Feb, 26 2014 @ 02:04 PM
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reply to post by neo96
 


I always find it funny what gets popped up in discussing the budget. Comparing National Defense spending with unemployment, social security, and medicaid/medicare programs is like comparing apples to oranges. Sure both are fruit but they grow from different trees. Entitle literally means "to furnish a right or claim to something"; ergo, "entitlement" actually means the guarantee of access to that thing. The reason why they are called "entitlements" is because, well, people are entitled to them as they pay for them directly through what are called payroll taxes. Everybody earning a paycheck in the US pays those payroll taxes (FICA, unemployment and etc). These taxes are specifically paid by everyone earning a paycheck in the US for those specific "entitlements". That's why they are called entitlements as you and hundreds of millions of other Americans have paid into them with every paycheck, every year, and ever since their inception. In other words, although "entitled" gets bandied about as if it means "spoiled", people are really actually entitled to receive those benefits and most of them pay for themselves every year. The only section that doesn't was what Dubya did with Medicare Plan B. He kind of screwed it up though Medicare, itself, also offsets some of its costs through direct premium payments from recipients.

Most of the graphs that get dished out basically pit the Congressional Discretionary spending for the Department of Defense against these programs. What that graph actually looks like is this (hopefully it's not too large). Now, I'm an accountant and I made that graph myself directly from the government's own excel sheet on the subject. I absolutely vouch for its accuracy:



Here's what the DoD discretionary spending looks like over time:



Yikes. The really scary thing is that is simply the discretionary spending. It's not even the full picture of DoD spending and only a little over half of it. For example, the total obligated funds for the DoD in 2010 was $1.1 trillion with close to $1 trillion being disbursed. However, that's if you can trust their actual agency wide annual reports, which you can't. The auditor's report for the DoD's annual reports have been unable to verify the accuracy of those reports for the last few several years due to a series of very, very bad accounting failures. If the DoD were a corporation and receiving those kind of auditor's statements, investors would be running for the hills because, heck, even Enron was able to get an auditor's opinion in its last annual report...

And the DoD doesn't have payroll taxes as an obligated resource for it. Apples and oranges.



posted on Feb, 26 2014 @ 02:05 PM
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reply to post by thisguyrighthere
 





n that way this $300 billion is essentially just more "defense" spending. Defense against all of us on whom the NSA spies.


I kinda agree with you.

Since that is what they have said was the real reason behind the creation of the interstate system.

Runways, and able to move large troops around easily.



posted on Feb, 26 2014 @ 02:06 PM
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buster2010

Krazysh0t
reply to post by neo96
 


So what is wrong with building roads? Do you not drive on interstates or something?


Don't you know it's better to keep the overbloated military industrial complex fed instead of our taxes fixing the roads that our people and businesses use on a daily basis? Who cares if a bridge falls apart we need another multi billion dollar aircraft carrier that we don't need because we only have five times as many as any other nation.


That is not entirely accurate. Technically we have 10 or 11, which means we have ten to 11 times more than anyone else, because nobody else has a Nimitz class equivalent. Compared to one of our Nimitz class "super carriers" theirs are like midgets next to an NFL lineman.

But yes I agree, we really are just being retarded with our military budget.

lets see here, how many in India's ARMY? 1,325,000 at $46,000,000,000
China-2,280,000 at a price of $166,000,000,000
USA-1,429,995 at a cost of $682,000,000,000


O_o wtf????

There really isnt any fat to trim in that budget, I mean we are getting down to the nitty gritty here. It isnt even a trillion, everyone knows you can have a decent military in this day and age without spending at least a trillion annually on it.

Sorry forgot to source my stats.

en.wikipedia.org...
en.wikipedia.org...

There we go.
edit on 2014bWednesdayv0720142 by oblvion because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 26 2014 @ 02:10 PM
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reply to post by WhiteAlice
 





I always find it funny what gets popped up in discussing the budget. Comparing National Defense spending with unemployment, social security, and medicaid/medicare programs is like comparing apples to oranges.


No it's not.

But who CARES!




The reason why they are called "entitlements" is because, well, people are entitled to them as they pay for them directly through what are called payroll taxes.


Mean the payroll taxes employees pay?

Then employers have to match that contribution.

Then since that contribution doesn't come anywhere near paying for the benefits received that tax other things like capital gains for medicare.

And other people to make up the difference.

That doesn't. So they raise the taxes on the minority to pay for the majority.

That still doesn't cover the deficit it creates.

So they print money, that still doesn't cover it.

So they borrow more money that still doesn't cover it.

Apples and Oranges ?

No it isn't.

Everyone has charts:

Hear is another one:



One more for snips and giggles




posted on Feb, 26 2014 @ 02:11 PM
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buster2010

neo96
reply to post by oblvion
 





Didnt we just spend upward of $700,000,000,000 on "shovel ready" infrastructure projects like 3 or 4 years ago?


Yep in the last 7 years we have spent over 7 trillion dollars without a GD thing to show for it, other than debt


You mean like the trillions we have spent on the "war on terror" that we have nothing to show for? Besides raising hatred against America around the globe that is.


This reminds me of "fast and furious".

The government creates a problem so they can fix it, to show us how much we need them to fix these problems they create.....Awesome sauce right there.

Good point also, I dont agree with some of the things you say at times, but I will be damned if you dont make a good point some of the time.



posted on Feb, 26 2014 @ 02:12 PM
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neo96
reply to post by benrl
 


Sorry ?





The reason SS,Medicare,Medicaid are called 'entitlements' is because none of those programs pay for themselves.

Lots of other people are.

So by all rights they are called 'entitlement' spending.

Because for some odd reason the people think they are owed 100% of the benefits received only paying 6% in.

Once again social engineering is the elephant in the room since it is the largest creator of debt we have.



First of all Neo, stop talking about "entitlement programs" as a whole. It's not a single entity, people like you group things together to exaggerate figures.

Social security, 20%, is NOT something the government is throwing money away on. WE PAY INTO IT I don't know how you cannot fathom that. WE PAY IN, that is our money, not the government's money they are giving to us. So stop including that on your numbers for "social programs" up for cut, that's not their money, it's ours, we ARE entitled to it.

Second of all, medicare, you know who is on medicare don't you? A bunch of old conservatives. A bunch of old people sucking the government's teet while whining about others doing it. You want to kill off the eldery that's fine, I won't complain, but your conservative brothers who benefit will likely get made.

Then it comes to unemployment insurance. You do know, if there were jobs, we wouldn't be spending anywhere near that, right?

Who benefits from unemployment insurance? Average people

Who benefits from SS? Average people

Who benefits from medicare? Average people

As someone else said, it's not good we are throwing money away, but if we are going to throw it away, might as well actually get something for normal people out of the deal.

This country used to build things, everywhere, all the time. Most important things in the country were built by the parents of the people currently running things. The people in charge now are simply sucking the country dry while if crumbles around them, instead of building it up greater than it was.

It's so, so shameful that in America our bridges are falling down/apart, our water sources are tainted, aging, and dangerous. The arteries that make this country function are not being maintained, and you support this?

Decay is exponential, we are only seeing the beginning of the massive issues our failing infrastructure will cause. We aren't actually fixing anything, we are just going around slapping band-aids on, and you want to stop using those too? Just let the country bleed out? Are you hoping after all the bridges collapse, all the streets are shattered, our water supply no good, half the country doesn't have electricity most of the time?

We seriously are going the way of NK. Their country was built up well by the soviets during the cold war, they didn't maintain it. They just used and used without fixing, and now their country is falling down around them.

We are doing the exact same thing. Our country was built up by better men than exist today, and people now just suck it dry why it falls apart. I'm sure you don't take me seriously, you just assume everything will always work because "that's how it is" but it's not. Things fall apart. Nearly every last single piece of major important infrastructure in this country is well past its "use by date" and currently under stresses that the designers never imagined they would undergo. It's really a testament to the quality of their work that past the useful life, under more extreme stresses, we still aren't seeing a huge impact. But we will, and then it will be far worse than if we deal with it now.

Why not attack wasteful spending of this money, instead of attacking the money being spent in the first place? You do use bridges, roads, etc, right? Or do you float around on your magic carpet like so many like minded people surely must own to avoid being hypocritical about their views.







 
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