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Ukraine revolution: 150,000 Russian troops on alert as US warns Putin

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posted on Mar, 1 2014 @ 11:01 AM
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Ohio_Ron
reply to post by alldaylong
 


Do you recalled that we kicked the Brits out!?!?


Not in 1812 you didn't





posted on Mar, 1 2014 @ 11:12 AM
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alldaylong

Not in 1812 you didn't



OOOO Burn

But remember allaylong Americans are taught they won that war

edit on 1-3-2014 by crazyewok because: (no reason given)

edit on 1-3-2014 by crazyewok because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 1 2014 @ 11:15 AM
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Ohio_Ron

Other than ourselves, no one has ever invaded the U.S. We have thousands of nukes....


Which is why in a USA/Russia war no one will come out winners.

Neither can hope to occuply the other.



posted on Mar, 1 2014 @ 11:19 AM
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crazyewok

alldaylong

Not in 1812 you didn't



OOOO Burn

But remember allaylong Americans are taught they won that war

edit on 1-3-2014 by crazyewok because: (no reason given)

edit on 1-3-2014 by crazyewok because: (no reason given)


Americans are taught many things that are complete bollocks.

No change there then.




posted on Mar, 1 2014 @ 11:25 AM
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crazyewok
But remember allaylong Americans are taught they won that war



No we're not but thanks for yet another 'Blanket generalized' statement.



posted on Mar, 1 2014 @ 11:27 AM
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crazyewok

alldaylong

Not in 1812 you didn't



OOOO Burn

But remember allaylong Americans are taught they won that war

edit on 1-3-2014 by crazyewok because: (no reason given)

edit on 1-3-2014 by crazyewok because: (no reason given)


We're here. You're not. We won.


Good point with Russia and the US tho..... That is a case where neither can win in that same way but for pure attrition and just not dying. It isn't winning...just isn't losing...and that's the best outcome we'd ever see from US and Russian flagged forces actually in a fur ball for real.

This whole thing is like a nightmare scenario from a dusty old 1980's filing cabinet, anyway. Someone make it stop! Pinch me. Something!



posted on Mar, 1 2014 @ 11:28 AM
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reply to post by Waterdog1
 


I find it funny that the mass media networks keep harping on the fact that the Russian soldiers aren't wearing patches, and insignias. They seem to think it's to keep anyone from knowing it is Russia, that invaded. No, that's not why they did it. It's because they know that eventually pictures would leak out to Western intelligence, and to keep the knowledge of exactly which Russian units are there, a secret as long as possible.

Why is it that I know this...and they don't? Or...is it merely a perpetuation of talking points to stupify a nation?



posted on Mar, 1 2014 @ 11:31 AM
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I keep thinking why no - one in power saw through Putin.
He's so so so obviously a cold calculating psycho killer.

He optimizes what the KGB stood for in the old Soviet Union.

I'm sitting here all day seething about him. I say #ing bring it on.

Lets settle this once and for all.

I'm not in a very good mood as you can see.

I hate Bullies

#dirtygangster



posted on Mar, 1 2014 @ 12:45 PM
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Thinking that this conflict will grow into WW3 is laughable at this point. However, it could grow into a regional conflict if Putin doesn't stop.

Commies keep blaming how the US are aggressors every time in countries, now Russia simply shows their true face. Either have to make a solution via diplomacy or there you go Putin, you aint better!



posted on Mar, 1 2014 @ 12:48 PM
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ImpactoR
Thinking that this conflict will grow into WW3 is laughable at this point. However, it could grow into a regional conflict if Putin doesn't stop.

Commies keep blaming how the US are aggressors every time in countries, now Russia simply shows their true face. Either have to make a solution via diplomacy or there you go Putin, you aint better!


It's not really laughable, because NATO members have already invoked Article 4 talks. Whether or not something is done is still up in the air, but this situation is very serious.



posted on Mar, 1 2014 @ 01:43 PM
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This could get really bad if Russia decides to invade other parts of Eastern Ukraine.
You will have Russians fighting Ukrainians, Russians fighting Russians and even Ukrainian fighting Ukrainian.



posted on Mar, 2 2014 @ 08:38 PM
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reply to post by rigel4
 


rigel4
Only the most naive agree Putin is an elected democratic leader.



And Obama is an democratically elected leader?!? Hah!
edit on 2-3-2014 by WCmutant because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 3 2014 @ 01:51 AM
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reply to post by rigel4
 


That's not strictly true, is it?

Our total Military strength is not far off what we had at the start of WW2 - albeit the Navy is considerably smaller but then Russia's is nothing to write home about either and is extremely outdated.

If push came to shove and a general mobilisation under the DotR Act, there are also hundreds of tanks and other armoured vehicles just sat around in warehouses, to be manned by a whole generation of men with combat experience - when you leave the Forces you're kept as a reserve for quite some time, they will be the first to be called back up.

Even now, the UK can deploy and support a division sized expeditionary force



posted on Mar, 3 2014 @ 01:59 AM
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reply to post by xavi1000
 


To be honest, I would be surprised if they were.

If NATO did "steamroll" Russia, their land missile forces would be compromised, depending how fast the advance was. Their submarine missile forces are being tailed right now, that much is certain. Also, recent tests of their missiles have not gone so well, so reliability is called into question. They've had great difficulty getting their sub launched missiles to fly of late.

So assuming the Russians can hide their land missiles well enough to avoid capture/bombing and have their submarines avoid Western hunter-killers, they might be able to get a few off, but why would they? They'd know the NATO response would be overwhelming and total. Russia has few big cities, all of which would be hit, whereas the West has many - in a simple numbers game, the West "wins" in as much as one can in a nuclear exchange. But my point is, we'd likely be around after the fact, whereas Russia most certainly would not be.

If the Russians have any sense, this is simply not an option and would be the act of a desperate mad man.



posted on Mar, 11 2014 @ 09:25 PM
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off-topic post removed to prevent thread-drift


 



posted on Mar, 11 2014 @ 10:41 PM
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stumason
reply to post by xavi1000
 


To be honest, I would be surprised if they were.

If NATO did "steamroll" Russia, their land missile forces would be compromised, depending how fast the advance was. Their submarine missile forces are being tailed right now, that much is certain. Also, recent tests of their missiles have not gone so well, so reliability is called into question. They've had great difficulty getting their sub launched missiles to fly of late.

So assuming the Russians can hide their land missiles well enough to avoid capture/bombing and have their submarines avoid Western hunter-killers, they might be able to get a few off, but why would they? They'd know the NATO response would be overwhelming and total. Russia has few big cities, all of which would be hit, whereas the West has many - in a simple numbers game, the West "wins" in as much as one can in a nuclear exchange. But my point is, we'd likely be around after the fact, whereas Russia most certainly would not be.

If the Russians have any sense, this is simply not an option and would be the act of a desperate mad man.


Other than nukes Russian military is in weak shape. That is why officially Putin has not declared that soldiers in Crimea are Russian as they are without any id patches etc.

China holds the wild card. If it does not help Russia, then Chinese will be next to face the heat.

Power of NATO is that of the gangsters. 5 of them harass one common guy. Others do not want anything to do with the mess. Only to find two days later one of the (neutral others) is being targeted by the same Gang. This cycle goes on till the time few of the commons join up and confront the goons. Same logic is true in the community of nations.



posted on Mar, 24 2014 @ 08:54 AM
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rigel4

khimbar
The US warning a nation not to get involved in another country's affairs.

www.zerohedge.com...



The White House is urging "outside actors" to respect Ukraine's sovereignty, as neighboring Russia prepares for massive military exercises.


There really aren't the words for the sheer hypocrisy.


The US is no more Hypocritical than Russia.. Who insist it's up to the people
of Syria to remove Assad!

Putin is afraid of the people.. and so he should be. Only the most naive
agree Putin is an elected democratic leader.



The US might be hypocritical, but before it goes to Afghanistan or Iraq, it checks with the leaders of the nations in that region. Lots of talks take place beforehand, not to mention its allies. Russia just deploys.



posted on Mar, 25 2014 @ 05:52 PM
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When it comes to governmental and military alliances, there are no allies to the people of this country or any country. Only enemies of mankind.

Furthermore, (before I begin, I want to make it abundantly clear that I do NOT characterize Russia as the protagonist in this situation) you really think this is anything more than a publicity stunt, a charade? People, humanity, we've been being divided and conquered since the Middle-Ages, based on our religious backgrounds, our ethnicities, our nationalities, and we continue to blindly follow these rulers' orders to die. IF SOMEONE CAME UP TO YOU AND ASKED YOU TO DIE, WHAT WOULD YOU SAY? You'd tell them to get lost, would you NOT? The rich send the poor to die for their own personal gain. Who is losing this battle? Is it the Russians, Ukrainians, Americans, or is it their leaders? ... You have to take into consideration the possibility that Putin, Merkel, Obama, all of these world leaders are working together with considerable financial assets behind closed doors beyond the prying eyes of the public, to mislead and divide and conquer us. It's like a reality TV show, only PEOPLE DIE for real. One plays the bad guy and then we have the guy we all cheer for that is the protagonist.
WAKE UP.

en.wikipedia.org...



en.wikipedia.org...



Following the source deeper:



The Svoboda Party is the second largest in the Yatsenyuk government.
Guess what their platform is:

en.wikipedia.org...(political_party)


The All-Ukrainian Union "Svoboda" (Ukrainian: Всеукраїнське об’єднання «Свобода», Vseukrayinske obyednannia "Svoboda"), translated as Freedom, is a Ukrainian nationalist political party,[2] and currently one of the five major parties of the country.[9] Five members of the party hold positions in Ukraine's government.



Allegations of neo-nazism and political extremism[edit]
Svoboda has been described as an anti-Semitic and sometimes a Neo-Nazi party by international newspapers,[24][117][111] organizations that monitor hate speech,[134] Jewish organizations,[135][136] and political opponents.[41]
Svoboda advisor Yuriy Mykhalchyshyn established a "‘Joseph Goebbels Political Research Centre" in 2005, later changing "Joseph Goebbels" to "Ernst Jünger."[2] Mykhalchyshyn wrote a book in 2010 citing works by Nazi theorists Ernst Röhm, Gregor Strasser and Goebbels.[39][117][137] Elsewhere Mykhalchyshyn referred to the Holocaust as a "period of Light in history".[138]
In December 2012, the European Parliament expressed concern regarding Svoboda's growing support, recalling "that racist, anti-Semitic and xenophobic views go against the EU's fundamental values and principles," and appealed "to pro-democratic parties in the Verkhovna Rada not to associate with, endorse or form coalitions with" Svoboda.[139] Party leader Oleh Tyahnybok stated in March 2013 that the EU warning against Svoboda's influence was the result of "Moscow agents working through a Bulgarian socialist MP".[140] Referencing a similar resolution made by the NATO Parliamentary Assembly, Tyahnybok claimed it to be a result of a mud-slinging campaign by political opponents, stating: "When we did not have a parliamentary faction or normal channels for contacting influential groups in the European Union, a very negative image of Svoboda was created and in an extremely crude fashion." However, after speaking to European MP's he stated they "admitted that they had received completely different information about us."[140] Tyahnybok furthermore stated that "spin doctors who are working against Svoboda" cover up the non-controversial points in the party's election programme "by promoting some clearly secondary issues through mass media outlets controlled by pro-government forces".[140]

During a Party of Regions rally in Kiev to counter the ongoing Euromaidan protests, MP Olena Bondarenko called Tyahnybok a "traitor" and one "who helps the Kremlin and Moscow." Her words were altered to read on her party's website that he was instead a "Nazi" and that "Nazis are not just disrespected, they are outlawed in Europe and throughout the civilized world".[141]
Svoboda members have denied the party is anti-Semitic.
[142][143][144] Party leader Tyahnybok stated in November 2012 “Svoboda is not an anti-Semitic party, Svoboda is not a xenophobic party. Svoboda is not an anti-Russian party. Svoboda is not an anti-European party. Svoboda is simply and only a pro-Ukrainian party”.[66] In defense of these accusations, Tyahnybok has stated "I have repeatedly said that Svoboda is not an anti-Semitic organization. If you have any comments on our views, go to court. But nobody will, because everyone understands that even biased Ukrainian courts cannot pass any sentence against Svoboda because we do not violate Ukrainian laws."[145][146] Tyahnybok says a criminal case was opened against him for promoting racial rights, but he managed to win all the court cases and protect his name.[102]
In media[edit]
According to Der Spiegel, "anti-Semitism is part of the extremist party's platform," which rejects certain minority and human rights.[24] The paper writes that Svoboda's earlier "Social-National Party" title was an "intentional reference to Adolf Hitler's National Socialist party," and that a Svoboda youth leader distributed Nazi propaganda written by Joseph Goebbels in 2013.[24]
Prominent Ukrainian journalist and president of TVi Channel Vitaly Portnikov defended criticisms towards Svoboda, as he noted he is often questioned for supporting party leader Oleh Tyahnybok despite himself being Jewish. Portnikov said, "I [stand with them] with great pleasure, because Oleh wants Ukraine to be part of the European Union" and that "presently Svoboda is acting in a very decent way, and I see no problem there. Right-wing parties function in every European country."[13]
Ukrainian media associated with the Party of Regions, the Communist Party of Ukraine, and Russophile groups contributed to a trend of characterizing Svoboda as a "Nazi menace."[2] Political analyst Olszański argued that voters from southern or eastern Ukraine, especially those who are poor, less educated, or attached to a "Soviet historical narrative," are hostile to nationalism, easily convinced that Svoboda is the modern analog of the Nazi invaders, and further that the Party of Regions is the only force capable of stopping a ‘brown revenge’.[2] According to political scientist Taras Kuzio, the label "nationalist" is "disastrous" in Russian-speaking regions of Ukraine and used as an epithet by political opponents.[41]
Statements by political scientists[edit]
Political scientist Tadeusz A. Olszański writes that the social-nationalist ideology which Svoboda formerly adhered to has included "openly racist rhetoric" concerning 'white supremacy' since its establishment, and that comparisons with National Socialism are legitimized by its history; however, Svoboda’s policy documents contain no racist elements.[2]
Andreas Umland, a po
edit on 25-3-2014 by Davian because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 25 2014 @ 06:03 PM
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Continued from previous post of mine:


litical scientist at the National University of Kyiv-Mohyla Academy,[51] has asserted in 2010 that "Svoboda was a racist party promoting explicitly ethnocentric and anti-Semitic ideas".[147] He also believes that internally, Svoboda "is much more radical and xenophobic than what we see”.[66] However, Umland has also stated that he believes the party will continue to become more moderate over time, stating that "there's a belief that Svoboda will change, once in the Verkhovna Rada, and that they may become proper national democrats".[39]
Olexiy Haran, also a political science professor at the Kyiv-Mohyla Academy, says “There is a lot of misunderstanding surrounding Svoboda" and that the party is not fascist, but radical.[95]
Alexander J. Motyl contends that Svoboda is not fascist, neither in behaviour or in ideology, and that "they are far more like the Tea Party or right-wing Republicans than like fascists or neo-Nazis."[97][148]
Statements by Jewish organizations[edit]
Thirty members of the Israeli Knesset condemned the party in a signed letter addressed to the President of the European Parliament. In the letter the Israeli politicians accused Svoboda of "openly glorifying Nazi murder" and "Nazi war criminals".[149] In May 2013 the World Jewish Congress labelled the party as "neo-Nazi" and called for European governments to ban them.[150]
Ukraine’s chief rabbi Yaakov Bleich said “Svoboda is an enigma in many ways,” calling it “a right-wing, nationalist party with anti-Semitic elements in it.”[151] Vyacheslav A. Likhachev of the Eurasian Jewish Congress, said that the “party has a very anti-Semitic core in its ideology,” and that it leads to “symbolic legitimization of neo-Nazis and anti-Semitic ideology in the eyes of society.”[69]
Member of parliament with the pro-presidential Party of Regions,[151] and president of the Jewish Committee of Ukraine Oleksandr Feldman criticized Svoboda as a "party which is notorious for regularly injecting anti-Semitism into their speeches and public pronouncements" and accused the party of "rallying behind this recognition and exploited mistrust of Jews to gain popularity among some in the lower class who painfully welcomed the chance to be a part of campaigns of hate".[152][153] Feldman also writes that Svoboda has helped erode the shame associated with open expressions of anti-Semitism and other ethnic hatreds.[154] Feldman has been an advocate for the Party of Regions and president Viktor Yanukovych, reportedly also funding the latter's public relations firm.[153] During the Euromaidan protests, Feldman said the protests had degenerated into “ultra-nationalism and anti-Semitism,” and called for opposition leaders Arseniy Yatseniuk and Vitali Klitschko to distance themselves from Svoboda. Four groups, including the Ukrainian Helsinki Human Rights Union, said they have seen no upsurge in anti-Semitic attacks. “We call on Ukrainian citizens and foreign observers to remain calm and critically assess the panic-mongering statements in the media regarding anti-Semitism in the country,” the groups said in a statement on the website of the Euro-Asian Jewish Congress.[151]
In 2012 international human rights organization The Simon Wiesenthal Center placed Svoboda party leader Oleg Tyahnybok fifth in its list of the top 10 anti-Semites and haters of Israel, based on his previous comments regarding Jews in Ukraine.[155]


Even Deeper:

--WIP

The character limit forcibly cut off a truckload of sourced information that's going to take me about an hour to get back, I must take a break for a minute before I toss this computer out of the second story window of my apt in anger.
edit on 25-3-2014 by Davian because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 25 2014 @ 06:15 PM
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