It looks like you're using an Ad Blocker.

Please white-list or disable AboveTopSecret.com in your ad-blocking tool.

Thank you.

 

Some features of ATS will be disabled while you continue to use an ad-blocker.

 

Born sinful.

page: 2
0
<< 1    3  4  5 >>

log in

join
share:

posted on Feb, 26 2014 @ 07:55 PM
link   
reply to post by oktopus
 


While sin is a spiritual condition, it is also a genetic flaw. Adam's sin is passed on through males, so anyone (man or woman) with a human father inherets Adam's sin and the ability to commit your own sins. Jesus was born of a virgin woman and was given perfect genetic material created by God the Father. He is the spotless Lamb of God in the sense that He did not bare the curse of Adam from birth, nor did He commit any personal sins.

Jesus went to the cross on the 14th day of the 1st month to bare all of our our sins and Adam's Original sin in His body. Because He was God, He paid the penalty of sin (spiritual and physical death) and was able to be ressurected 3 days later. He did this so that those of us who accepted His payment for our sins would be free of its debt.

Jesus paid for ALL of our sins, so no one goes to hell because they are sinners. You go to hell for your works. Our works can not be credited as righteous unless we are first baptized in Jesus death and ressurection. In Him we die as sinners and are ressurected as new, clean creatures. As sinners, we try to cover ourselves with our works as Adam did with the fig leaves. So the good work of a sinner is hypocritical. Its a dirty cup on the inside with a polished outter surface. When we are washed in the Blood of Christ, we are made clean of our sins, then the righteousness of Jesus is credited to us and we are no longer hypocrites before the Lord. As believers, we are capable of confessing our sin when we need to (1 John 1:9) and produce righteous works rather than counterfiet works.

Believe on Jesus Christ, the only begotten Son of God and Spotless Lamb, and you will be saved.

If you dont, all you will have to show for at the Last Judgement are not your sins, but your counterfiet good works which will drag you down to Hell.

Maybe you feel that you shouldnt be accountable for Adam's curse, but you are still a sinner. At some point in your life, you must have lied, stolen, cheated, hated, feared. We all do. That is why we need to be washed in the Blood of Christ to be saved.

Dont be lulled by the idea that good works will save you. Only the good works of Christ are acceptable in God's eyes, and you only recieve that when you recieve Christ as your saviour.

This dogma stands alone. No other system of faith teaches grace, they only teach work. Christianity does not conform with the religion of man.

I hope this helps.




posted on Feb, 26 2014 @ 08:27 PM
link   
The Greek word for sin is hamartia which means to miss or fall short of the mark of perfection(maturity)
This core meaning has been extrapolated from the bible to mean evil, wrong doing etc etc..

In context to man... mankind was "born" in sin simply means they were "born" with an immature nature.The creator God is very aware of that because that is how EVERYTHING is born.Your "nature" doesn't "change" (the meaning of repent) from immaturity to maturity by methods of religious piety that the creator God "demands of you to be "saved"(which means delivered.) .

The religious spin on "sin" is YOU are born EVIL(and prove you are evil all the time) and UNLESS you REPENT(get your #e together by being religious) you will not be SAVED from what ever the consequences are (usually eternal punishment of hell).
Non of that is in the scripture nor is it Truth.EVERYONE was born in the physical realm "immature" and they WILL "change"(repent) and eventually become "mature" to be "born-born" in another realm(which is unknowable).

This is the process of salvation…from conception to being delivered.Salvation does not mean what the religious believe it is. Forgiveness of sin does not mean "pardoned" of guilt of actions.EVERYONE is 100% accountable for ALL they do.There are "consequences" for EVERYTHING they are called "effects.The Law of cause and effect is "Every cause has an effect".

Forgiveness is freedom from bondage.In mankind's case the ultimate freedom is from the bondage of physical death. Mankind's "physical" life is more like a "conception"and NO ONE has been born-born yet(even though billions believe they have been born again or resurrected,ascended ete etc...).

Being born-born is not qualified by what someone has "done" everyone is "falling short of maturity".This changing( repenting) is a process of a "conception" that happens TO man.There is NOTHING anyone can do to "cause it to happen(or to not happen) just as you had nothing to do with your physical conception and growth.You are growing through the process of salvation….everyone in their own "order and time".

That is what Yahoshua meant when he "proclaimed…REPENT (change) because the Kingdom of God(the realm you will be born into) is coming.He wasn't saying "change"(do religious acts) or you will NOT be born(but BURNED in hell!!).He was stating to "grow" you must change (repent) but you are not causing the growth only the creator God can do that because that Kingdom is "what" (it's a realm not a place)you are being "born" into because the Creator God IS The Father of ALL.

Yahoshua clashed with the religious Jews because they said NO…. you enter into the Kingdom of God by the religious acts of Judaism.They had it wrong as everyone that "believes" IN their religion(which is everyones person Belief System or BS).They will not (cannot) enter the Kingdom of God until they are freed from the bondage of "their religion".That is what Yahoshua meant when he said MANY(all of mankind) are called but few are chosen to enter into the Kingdom of God IN their midst.(which is neither here now there (a place) and "comes with observation(judgment/measuring).This entering is only "through" the narrow gate(the birth canal) it is not being born-born yet

He wasn't excluding anybody from entering in The Kingdom of God.EVERYONE will enter in and BE(live) in the Kingdom of God.It is impossible NOT to be.The entering(through the narrow gate) just isn't happening fro the "many"WHILE in the physical realm.They will enter in "after" the physical death.No one is IN the Kingdom of God because no one has been born-born yet.

This is all in the scriptures (and many more thing)"proclaimed" by Yahoshua.He was NOT teaching a new religion.He was only proclaiming the coming of the Kingdom of God(being born into that realm) for ALL of mankind through "salvation"(conception).

The fact is there is NOTHING anyone can do to alter this process.It WILL happen.You are accountable(culpable) for all you do in your "conception" and that will be experienced by consequences.Every cause has an effect and cannot be escaped…HOWEVER that CAN'T abort your birth.You WILL be born into the Kingdom of God realm. THAT and that alone is the basis of the Good News called the gospel…..It is NOT if you accept Jesus as your savior for and from your "sinful" life you are "pardoned" and SAVED from the eternal punishment and damnation(which means judgement) of HELL!!.That is the most perverse and heinous doctrine of religion of mankind ever conceived in their "sinful"(immature) mind…

My suggestion.Don't worry about tomorrow and what you are going to do.Live TODAY..then the next today…etc etc…EVERYTHING is going to be okay.However don't think that means you will not be accountable for what you do or "pardoned" from your guilt.Every cause has an effect..however the BIG cause and effect is conception and BIRTH…so when you time and order has come to enter in and be born..HAPPY BIRTHDAY!!..




edit on 26-2-2014 by Rex282 because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 26 2014 @ 10:33 PM
link   
reply to post by BELIEVERpriest
 

No other system of faith teaches grace, they only teach work. Christianity does not conform with the religion of man.
"Grace" in connection with Christianity as opposed to the "religion of man" has a particular meaning.
You can look at three major religions of the time of the inception of Christianity as examples.
The Greek's mystery religion, in order to be accepted into it, first you had to be a Greek speaker, since the words in the language were understood to all have spiritual meanings so that a complete understanding of the language was necessary for understanding the religion.
The religion of the Jews needed to be admitted being born of the tribe and/or accepting all of the Laws of Moses, including circumcision, which most gentiles saw as an utter abomination.
The religion of Rome meant the patronage of the city's gods, and the idea that they, the Romans, were meant to be the ruling class over the entire world.
Grace, to those joining the church of Jesus meant that none of those restrictions applied, as they did to the other great religions of the time.
That was the source of its popularity and all sorts of people joined who did not necessarily fit the other's criteria.

Jesus went to the cross on the 14th day of the 1st month to bare all of our our sins and Adam's Original sin in His body. Because He was God, He paid the penalty of sin (spiritual and physical death) and was able to be ressurected 3 days later. He did this so that those of us who accepted His payment for our sins would be free of its debt.
I understand that certain people calling themselves Christians hold to this theory but it is not a teaching of the New Testament.
Jesus took our infirmities, and Jesus "became sin" for us but he did not take on the sins of others as a debt to pay for with his blood. That is a later invention as institutional Christianity as a state sponsored religion took hold, in order to provide a reason for its existence, as the distributors of the blood of Jesus as the way to salvation.
True Christianity as described in the New Testament is the path to holiness through the gift of the Holy Spirit and is in conjunction with repentance and conversion. We are saved to good works but not saved by our work because it was Christ's good works that created the church which we are the members of.
edit on 26-2-2014 by jmdewey60 because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 26 2014 @ 10:56 PM
link   
reply to post by Rex282
 

The religious spin on "sin" is YOU are born EVIL(and prove you are evil all the time) and UNLESS you REPENT(get your #e together by being religious) you will not be SAVED from what ever the consequences are (usually eternal punishment of hell).
Being religious is just doing what is acceptable to God, not just "everyones person Belief System or BS".
The way to be properly religious in God's eyes is by way of having the spirit that comes from God, to us, through Jesus.
edit on 26-2-2014 by jmdewey60 because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 26 2014 @ 11:23 PM
link   
reply to post by jmdewey60
 

Eph 2:6

"For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God"

Rom 10:9

"that if you confess with your mouth Jesus as Lord, and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved"

Hebrews 9:28

" so Christ also, having been offered once to bear the sins of many, will appear a second time for salvation without reference to sin, to those who eagerly await Him."

Hebrews 9:25&26

" For Christ did not enter a holy place made with hands, a mere copy of the true one, but into heaven itself, now to appear in the presence of God for us; nor was it that He would offer Himself often, as the high priest enters the holy place year by year with blood that is not his own."

Hebrews 9:13&14

"For if the blood of goats and bulls and the ashes of a heifer sprinkling those who have been defiled sanctify for the cleansing of the flesh, how much more will the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered Himself without blemish to God, cleanse your conscience from dead works to serve the living God?"

Hebrews 9:11&12

" But when Christ appeared as a high priest of the good things to come, He entered through the greater and more perfect tabernacle, not made with hands, that is to say, not of this creation; and not through the blood of goats and calves, but through His own blood, He entered the holy place once for all, having obtained eternal redemption"

Conclusion:

Salvation is by faith in Christ's sacrafice, not by works. He paid for our sins once and for all with His own blood. The temporary blood sacrafices of the Law foreshadowed the sacrafice of Jesus Christ.

Notice how Hebrews 9:25&26 restates Hebrews 9:11&12. This is because Jesus died for our attonement and paid with His own blood for our eternal salvation.

Our good works are filthy rags without the Blood of Christ.

Its pretty clear to me that Jesus is our scapegoat, and salvation is by faith alone, not works. It is a gift of God's grace.

Do you hate grace?



posted on Feb, 27 2014 @ 12:37 AM
link   
reply to post by BELIEVERpriest
 

Conclusion:

Salvation is by faith in Christ's sacrafice, not by works. He paid for our sins once and for all with His own blood. The temporary blood sacrafices of the Law foreshadowed the sacrafice of Jesus Christ.

Notice how Hebrews 9:25&26 restates Hebrews 9:11&12. This is because Jesus died for our attonement and paid with His own blood for our eternal salvation.

Our good works are filthy rags without the Blood of Christ.

Its pretty clear to me that Jesus is our scapegoat, and salvation is by faith alone, not works. It is a gift of God's grace.

Do you hate grace?
Salvation is the creation of the congregation of the "saved", which is the church, which we may enter by Grace, which is admission without a lot of preconditions other than Faith.
This congregation is set aside as a holy thing, the sanctified church.
Evil things are not allowed to remain in it, so the condition for being "in Christ" is a life of holiness.

Your "conclusions" are your personal opinions and not stated facts by the Bible itself.
"Good works" are never called "filthy rags" in the Bible.
There is a quote from Isaiah that Paul uses in Romans that "our righteousness is as filthy rags".
That was a lamentation after the fall of Israel to the Assyrians that their righteousness availed them not because their country was destroyed even though they were following the Law.

The blood of Jesus is cited as an analogy in a certain context, which is the Mercy Seat, the place connected to the Ark of the covenant in the Old Testament where on the Day of Atonement, judgment day on the Jewish calender, the high priest met God and he either lived or he died.
The high priest could not approach the Ark without blood, and it was a specific type of blood from the animal most sacred to the Lord, which had a high degree of holiness to it, which when sprinkled, gave an air of holiness that the priest could move through in order to safely approach the presence of God.
The analogy in Hebrews is that Jesus is the better high priest because that sacred blood, no matter how holy it was, could not make the person using it perfect.
Jesus was perfect himself, intrinsically, so he was able to enter with his own blood, which is really the end of the analogy because the reality is that Jesus did die but was vindicated by God, and raised from the dead, but beyond that, was taken up to heaven, in the very presence of God, there to stand as our representative.

In Romans, Paul also mentions the Mercy Seat and Jesus' blood but the analogy is straightforward, as a replacement for the Old Testament version, that the gentiles can accept outside the old written Mosaic Law.
edit on 27-2-2014 by jmdewey60 because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 27 2014 @ 01:13 AM
link   
reply to post by jmdewey60
 


The message of Hebrews 9 is as obvious as can be. Jesus died for our sins as our scapegoat. Faith in His sacrafice is the ONLY way to heaven.

I have a prophecy for you, spoken throught the Lord's Prophet, Iris Nasreen, and confirmed via calculation.

Jesus is returning to resurrect the Church on 9/16/2016. You can either accept Christ as your saviour and come with us, or you can take your chances and wait for His return sometime in mid September of 2023. Ask yourself, will you be counted worthy to stand before Him then, on the Great and Terrible Day of the Lord?

That goes for anyone who is without Christ. The time to decide what you believe is now. Turn away from your sins and love for the world, and believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, the only begotten Son of God.

The Visions of Iris Nasreen:

books.google.com...

The calculations:

www.abovetopsecret.com...



posted on Feb, 27 2014 @ 01:39 AM
link   
reply to post by BELIEVERpriest
 

The message of Hebrews 9 is as obvious as can be. Jesus died for our sins as our scapegoat. Faith in His sacrifice is the ONLY way to heaven.
Could you like walk us through the steps of logic that goes from what Hebrews says, to the conclusion that Jesus is the scapegoat?
Just saying "it is obvious" is not a compelling argument for your case.
I've read this for fifty years and it never came off to me as meaning that.
Hebrews' use of the Day of Atonement imagery is very fundamental to the particular religion that I belong to, Seventh Day Adventist, where anyone who is a member should be able to rattle off a really long spiel on the tabernacle services and the role of the high Priest.

Faith in His sacrafice is the ONLY way to heaven.
If that were so, then the writers of the New Testament did us a great disservice by leaving it out.
edit on 27-2-2014 by jmdewey60 because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 27 2014 @ 03:26 PM
link   
reply to post by jmdewey60
 


I think I have said enough, and so have you.



posted on Feb, 27 2014 @ 03:56 PM
link   
reply to post by BELIEVERpriest
 

Eph 2:6
"For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God"
You are allowed admission into the congregation of the saved (the church) by only meeting one criteria, which is faith in the one who created it (Jesus).
You, the members of the church, did not create it on your own initiative or by your own power, it was God that provided that, free of charge.

Rom 10:9
"that if you confess with your mouth Jesus as Lord, and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved"
The heart and the mouth, as opposed to being saved by another body part, the one that the Jews think has to be circumcised.
edit on 27-2-2014 by jmdewey60 because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 27 2014 @ 04:03 PM
link   
reply to post by BELIEVERpriest
 

Hebrews 9:28
" so Christ also, having been offered once to bear the sins of many, will appear a second time for salvation without reference to sin, to those who eagerly await Him."

Hebrews 9:25&26
" For Christ did not enter a holy place made with hands, a mere copy of the true one, but into heaven itself, now to appear in the presence of God for us; nor was it that He would offer Himself often, as the high priest enters the holy place year by year with blood that is not his own."

Hebrews 9:13&14
"For if the blood of goats and bulls and the ashes of a heifer sprinkling those who have been defiled sanctify for the cleansing of the flesh, how much more will the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered Himself without blemish to God, cleanse your conscience from dead works to serve the living God?"

Hebrews 9:11&12
" But when Christ appeared as a high priest of the good things to come, He entered through the greater and more perfect tabernacle, not made with hands, that is to say, not of this creation; and not through the blood of goats and calves, but through His own blood, He entered the holy place once for all, having obtained eternal redemption"
I wonder if it is significant that these are posted in the reverse order that they are found in the Bible.
I think that I should deal with all of these as I find them in the 9nth chapter of Hebrews.

11. We already have the Christian church as this is being written, so it is at this time an established thing, and not something that we are waiting to come about at some future time.
Jesus, at least metaphorically came to do things as our high priest, of the church, which has as its temple, the heavenly one.

12. Jesus, by going face to face with God in the temple without using the type of blood that the Old Testament prescribes, put an end to our bondage to the old written Mosaic Law.

13. Those things described in the Old Testament as part of the temple service could only give an appearance of making the person using them holy.

14. The blood that Jesus brought before God (in a sense that this is possible through the operation of the spirit medium) when he died, is so much better to make us able to function as a holy community.

25. The action that Jesus performed as the spiritual high priest of the church , presenting himself to God in that way, was sufficient to where it never needs to be repeated.

26. It has been brought to our understanding that now is the time of nullifying the power of sin for causing death, by this one sacrifice (which could be the sacrifice of Jesus himself, by God).

28. Jesus died in a situation where he was bearing sins, but will appear to those who await him, in a state where he is free from that burden, and is only representing pure righteousness, as their leader into holiness.
edit on 27-2-2014 by jmdewey60 because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 28 2014 @ 12:54 PM
link   
reply to post by oktopus
 





Originally posted by oktopus
According to the bible we are all born sinful, it's a consequence of "the Original sin".



IMO “Original sin” was when we turned away from our divine connection to God. We essentially lost the knowledge of God, and that’s when sin, evil, greed, hate, corruption and all manners of evils, entered into our world. Our world became a fallen one, because of our disconnection from God…

So no one is born sinful IMO, they are just born into a world which has lost it’s spiritual connection to God; They/we/us everyone, is born into a fallen world, which makes us more prone to sin, but no one is born a sinner, they only become corrupted later in life, because of this fallen world around them.

Jesus came to help bridge our spiritual gap, back to God, through his truth, words and message, so that we can come to know God, and begin to walk a righteous path.


- JC



posted on Feb, 28 2014 @ 08:11 PM
link   
reply to post by BELIEVERpriest
 

Hebrews 9:28

" so Christ also, having been offered once to bear the sins of many, will appear a second time for salvation without reference to sin, to those who eagerly await Him."
Back to this verse presented as a key point of evidence for the "scapegoat" theory.
I've been looking at this all day, and made a page for it on my blog,
readingthebibleingreek.blog.com...
and am convinced that it says that Christ, for the sake of the many, bore up sins, or in my way of thinking, lifted them up.
What I am specifically pointing out here is how this is different than "offered once to bear the sins of many".
The significance is between (1) lifting up sins in general, benefiting many people, or, (2) lifting up the specific sins of many people.
If it was the second thing, then that would be closer to supporting the "scapegoat" theory.
Either way, it has a direct bearing on the topic of this thread
If it is the first way of interpreting it, that it is "sin" in general, then Jesus is being depicted as serving the role of the Suffering Servant of Isaiah 53, where he elevates the condition of sinfulness.
If you answer the question about "born sinful?" with Yes, then this interpretation goes along with that answer.
In Isaiah, the "servant" is Israel, and its sinfulness causes the kingdom to be destroyed.
Then God reexamines his servant and at second thought, decides that given the circumstances, Israel was actually pretty good, and reinstates it to its proper standing.
Jesus, taking on the appearance of a sinner, hanging on a cross, executed as the worst sort of criminal, God forsaken and dying, his being resurrected is lifting up to a higher level the status in general of the people of this world laden down in sin.
The "scapegoat" theory would fit in with a No answer to the thread's question, that everyone starts out good but at some point they make a single mistake, and that one particular sin can be laid on someone else to get punished for it.

I think that a lot of churches have invested theologically into the "scapegoat" theory, so that influences how the standard Bible translations are made where these ideas may hang in the balance.
edit on 28-2-2014 by jmdewey60 because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 1 2014 @ 12:38 AM
link   
reply to post by jmdewey60
 


Look, Jesus fulfilled the spring Feasts in His ministry. His death was the fulfillment of the slaughtering of the Passover Lamb. The Lamb was spotless and innocent. It was eaten so that those with faith could partake in salvation. The fulfillment of the Feasts cannot be denied, as the resurrection of Christ occured on the first day of the First Fruits offering and the Holy Spirit was given to the Church on Pentacost. That means that Trumpets, Attonement and Booths have yet to be fulfilled. Jesus will return on Trumpets. Already having paid for our sins, He will resurrect Israel and vanquish their sins forever as atonement (daniel 9), and the Feast of Booths will be a celebration of these events.

The scapegoat "theory", as you call it, was part of God's Law. It was observed every year on Yom Kippur, and it is a Messianic concept.

Jesus paid for our sins as the Spotless Lamb on the evening of the 14th day of the 1st month, and He will send sin into the wilderness and away from His kingdom on the 10th day of the 7th month.



posted on Mar, 1 2014 @ 08:51 AM
link   
reply to post by BELIEVERpriest
 

His death was the fulfillment of the slaughtering of the Passover Lamb.
The Passover, as described in the story of the Israelites and their exodus from Egypt, was not specifically a sacrifice and was how you would kill an animal that you were going to eat yourself.
The salvation part was the application of the blood on the house entrance.
That was the sign for the destroying angel to pass over your house.
It wasn't anything about forgiving sins.

The one place that the New Testament makes a direct connection between Jesus and the Passover lamb, he is being metaphorical and not literal.

1 Corinthians 5:6-8
Your boasting is not good. Don’t you know that a little yeast leavens the whole batch of dough? Get rid of the old yeast, so that you may be a new unleavened batch—as you really are. For Christ, our Passover lamb, has been sacrificed. Therefore let us keep the Festival, not with the old bread leavened with malice and wickedness, but with the unleavened bread of sincerity and truth.
(2011 NIV)

He wasn't talking about how to observe the Jewish celebration of Passover, but was using that imagery to describe allegorically the spiritual age that we now live in, since Jesus' death on the cross, where we as the members of the church are dedicated to holiness.

. . . He will send sin into the wilderness and away from His kingdom on the 10th day of the 7th month.
The second scapegoat is dedicated to Azazel.
I don't think that fits with the "spotless lamb" imagery.
Jesus doesn't make a second atonement.
Look at your quotes that you posted from Hebrews, he entered once concerning sin, and appears the second time without regards to sin but bringing salvation.
Jesus is our High Priest in that metaphor, it just so happens that it is his own holy blood that he brings to be able to approach the holy God, and not that of sacred (according to the Old Testament) animals.
Paul says that Jesus came to die according to Isaiah. The only thing that fits that description is the Suffering Servant story.
He doesn't say that he came to die according to Leviticus.

edit on 1-3-2014 by jmdewey60 because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 4 2014 @ 12:19 AM
link   
What to do?

Galatians 5;

16 So I say, walk by the Spirit, and you will not gratify the desires of the flesh. 17 For the flesh desires what is contrary to the Spirit, and the Spirit what is contrary to the flesh. They are in conflict with each other, so that you are not to do whatever you want. 18 But if you are led by the Spirit, you are not under the law.
edit on 4-3-2014 by oktopus because: (no reason given)


Out of these verses we can also say, that law was made because people were sinful, as a guide for the sinful, for those who did the desires of the flesh. If we weren't sinful, their would be no reason for a law for we would live by the Spirit.
edit on 4-3-2014 by oktopus because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 5 2014 @ 05:12 PM
link   

oktopus
What to do?

Galatians 5;

16 So I say, walk by the Spirit, and you will not gratify the desires of the flesh. 17 For the flesh desires what is contrary to the Spirit, and the Spirit what is contrary to the flesh. They are in conflict with each other, so that you are not to do whatever you want. 18 But if you are led by the Spirit, you are not under the law.
edit on 4-3-2014 by oktopus because: (no reason given)


Out of these verses we can also say, that law was made because people were sinful, as a guide for the sinful, for those who did the desires of the flesh. If we weren't sinful, their would be no reason for a law for we would live by the Spirit.
edit on 4-3-2014 by oktopus because: (no reason given)


This is correct. Laws are always given to help people to live in harmony with God and even among ourselves. Most people, in all time periods, were living in disharmony to all life (negativity and selfishness). So laws must be given to those who need it to return to God's Light. But for those who are highly spiritual, you ARE the Law. You don't need it since it is who you are, since you are in Harmony with God. You live each day 100% in Divine Love with God and ALL of creation. That is the key. As long as you have true, unconditional Love, you already have all the laws. The laws will not save you, but it is one of the roads that can lead you to salvation. And along any road, you get closer and closer to the Light, as long as you don't make detours that could prolong the journey.



posted on Mar, 5 2014 @ 10:11 PM
link   

oktopus

What do you call the nature of man?

According to the bible we are all born sinful, it's a consequence of "the Original sin".

That became our nature, but it is not good!

- Do you follow until now?

Can anyone tell we what it is we have to become ? What is the good/right nature of man?
Are we able to transform from this? How is this done?
Please quote from the bible to prove your point.

What does sinful actually mean? Does it mean rebellious towards God? Unloyal towards God?

Where's the line between rebellious and unloyal?

This inner voice is saying: please wake me up!

Can another person make someone lose their sinful nature? One could make one comprehend, but can he change him?

Is LORD Jesus the only way to the Father?

I just feel like I've got not much to do here, in this world, though if I don't do much, I don't feel alright, so I just fill my days with work. It seems the best we can do! There seems to be not much to life, nothing gives meaning to it! Yet, it seems to be good to be not sinful, and bad to be sinful. Yet what you gain by being not sinful is what you lose by being sinful. Not only do you not get the good stuff by being sinful, you even become sentenced/punished for it.

Let's make people aware about the nature of man.

I don't know how people who lost their sinful nature cannot care about this issue.

Although I don't feel bad, I feel quite lost. I don't feel sinful, but I don't feel otherwise either! Really, sometimes I wonder who or what I am. I'm probably denying the cause of my karma. I don't really know. Something amazed me and I remained amazed. I need to find out what.

I am amazed, and insulted and whatever I can be along the way. Maybe there do exist mentally ill people unaware of what they say. Is it oppression? Is it just bullying? My heart seems to be in a knot, or my heart exists out of many.

What is my purpose?

Although there is nothing to life, people go around telling everyone they have a purpose? I guess looking back you might find you had purposes, but looking forward, I don't have a purpose. I just see what happens! Sometimes I get an idea to go for a walk, just because "I feel like it", I don't know why, probably because God wants me to! I never have a problem doing what God asks!

In life, you can never do wrong if you do what God asks of you! It comes to the fact God knows best. He doesn't seem to cause me any harm!

Whatever, any info on our sinful nature is welcome, please quote form the Bible!


First, define sin.

Children do not bear the sins of their parents. "Original Sin" only applies to Adam and Eve because of the choice they made. If they had chosen not to do what they did, things would be a lot different.



Can anyone tell we what it is we have to become ? What is the good/right nature of man?
Are we able to transform from this? How is this done?


Matthew 22
37 Jesus replied: “‘Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind.’[c] 38 This is the first and greatest commandment. 39 And the second is like it: ‘Love your neighbor as yourself.’[d] 40 All the Law and the Prophets hang on these two commandments.”

Why? The rain falls on the just and unjust...


Is LORD Jesus the only way to the Father?

Yes and no, depending on perspective.

[quote]
What is my purpose?

Different people have different purposes. Some for honor, some for dishonor. All to learn. And haha, I love this question... Ask myself everyday...



In life, you can never do wrong if you do what God asks of you! It comes to the fact God knows best. He doesn't seem to cause me any harm!


What about when Abraham was about to sacrifice Isaac and a messenger (angel) told him to stop?

Contradictory truths... can be bothersome, yet it is uplifting.



posted on Mar, 6 2014 @ 12:09 AM
link   

ctophil

This is correct. Laws are always given to help people to live in harmony with God and even among ourselves. Most people, in all time periods, were living in disharmony to all life (negativity and selfishness). So laws must be given to those who need it to return to God's Light. But for those who are highly spiritual, you ARE the Law. You don't need it since it is who you are, since you are in Harmony with God. You live each day 100% in Divine Love with God and ALL of creation. That is the key. As long as you have true, unconditional Love, you already have all the laws. The laws will not save you, but it is one of the roads that can lead you to salvation. And along any road, you get closer and closer to the Light, as long as you don't make detours that could prolong the journey.


It think it's a bit worse though.

If there weren't laws, so if there weren't threats people would be punished if they did wrong, there would be nothing to keep them from it, the situation would escalate heavily. There would be more murder, theft, whatever. The law creates moral. You see, the people who are not living by spirit are just that, wrongdoers, sinners, eventually comes the day they do wrong. A law makes sure it doesn't go unpunished for it are not things to do.

I also believe a law doesn't substitute the Spirit, I mean, I don't agree with what you said the law making people return to God.

If you live by Spirit though, you do not do anything wrong. Yes, since the law cannot control everybody into making them act right, it only serves as punishment for when you do wrong.



posted on Mar, 6 2014 @ 12:00 PM
link   


Text What does sinful actually mean? Does it mean rebellious towards God? Unloyal towards God?
reply to post by oktopus
 


Evil (sin) is a creation and not a happening. Isaiah 45:7 tells us that evil was created by God but it was created as a necessary teaching and not in malice. Evil is a product of knowledge and knowledge is a product of awareness. In order for God to show righteousness He must show unrighteousness. Otherwise we would not understand what either righteousness or unrighteousness is. This is why it is called knowledge (awareness) to sin. Without awareness (knowledge) it could not be called sin or evil. So evil is actually a creative spirit of opposition (disobedience) towards the perfect will of God. After evil was created then God had a permissive will and instituted grace or forgiveness.

This spirit of disobedience is thought to have been created in the celestial estate which we call heaven. This is where the angels who embraced this spirit of evil were first infected and were cast out of the celestial realm to this terrestrial realm which we call universe. After man was created, he also embraced this spirit as well as the animal kingdom also embraced evil. After embracing evil it then became knowledge among all creation both celestial and terrestrial. This is the reason that we are taught that all people are born in sin. Not that the infant has transgressed God but only that the infant was brought forth in this knowledge of evil. The nature of that infant is evil simply because it has knowledge and will continue to advance that knowledge. Not that the infant has mentally or physically acted against God but only that it has been procreated in the nature of sin.

This explains why the angels themselves are also sinful by their nature and many of them have also sinned. Some Jews insist that angels cannot and have never sinned and for this reason many refuse to believe that angels even exist. So there are many beliefs concerning this creation of evil.

But then the Creator also brought forth His permissive will knowing that His perfect will could not come through chastisement but only through the portion which we call love or grace or forgiveness. This was accomplished through His son which many call the Christ or Jesus. Once knowledge released evil then God allowed for His creating this spirit. As man dies, he dies in sin but can also die in grace or
forgiveness but he or she will never die in the perfect will of God.




top topics



 
0
<< 1    3  4  5 >>

log in

join