Plasma Ribbon Confirms Electric Sun

reply to post by dragonridr


Do some research.

See if you can get into the game.

reply to post by poet1b

Plasma is so loosely defined as a term I actually don't have a problem comparing the movement of electrons in a solid metal to plasma. But what does the word "distinct" mean in your definition of plasma as "a distinct state of matter". You seem to be saying the metal is both a solid and a plasma so I don't understand "distinct" in that context the way you describe it as apparently not distinct.

reply to post by Arbitrageur


Distinct means that it has different properties. There is a way to identify a copper wire that is ionized from a copper wire that is not, a way to identify a distinction.

I understand why everyone is grappling with this distinction.

reply to post by poet1b

Distinct means that it has different properties.

That's good. Remember it.

There is a way to identify a copper wire that is ionized from a copper wire that is not, a way to identify a distinction.

What is that way?

Surely you understand that your explanation requires the copper to be viewed as a solid plasma. Unless you're suggesting the copper is no longer solid while conducting? Could you please clarify? Only you know what you're thinking.

So what you are trying to suggest is that valency electrons are infact a plasma... this is not correct

poet1b
Distinct means that it has different properties. There is a way to identify a copper wire that is ionized from a copper wire that is not, a way to identify a distinction.

Please elaborate on this idea of the copper wire that is ionized versus a copper wire that is not, with examples of how to tell the difference.

One way to ionize the wire would be to heat it, turning it into a liquid copper, then gaseous copper, then copper plasma. But if you're still talking about solid wires, how would we distinguish an ionized copper wire from a non-ionized copper wire?

Here is a problem with solid copper being a plasma:

One of the properties of a plasma is the phenomenon that occurs at Plasma-solid boundaries as shown here:


Source: Study Materials for MIT Course [22.611] - Intro to Plasma Physics I (2003).pdf

How can you demonstrate this plasma-solid boundary property of a plasma inside solid copper? Hint: you can't, because you're already inside the solid so there's no boundary.

reply to post by DenyObfuscation


The smart way to identify ionized copper from copper that is not ionized is to use a volt meter. Back in the old days, an electrician would lick his fingers and do a quick touch. It will let you know it is there.

Think of water flowing through a pipe. It is easy see where the water flows through. A copper wire is also processed, purified. We just can't see the holes that the electrons slip through.

reply to post by ErosA433


No, I am saying that free flowing electrons are a plasma.

As the electrons move from particle to particle, in large groups, they are moving in a distinct manner.

Are you aware that electricity primarily moves on the surface of the conductor?

reply to post by poet1b

A copper wire is also processed, purified. We just can't see the holes that the electrons slip through.

Do you have a source for hole flow in copper wire?

I can't find anything to back you up on that.

reply to post by Arbitrageur


Thanks for bringing something relevant to the discussion.

In a vacuum plasma forms into a cell like structure, with a membrane.

I would need to read more about the subject in this MIT course to give a better evaluation. I'm not sure how this matches current flowing through a wire in an electrical circuit with a power source.

It is important to realize that not all plasma is the same.

reply to post by DenyObfuscation


You gonna back me up? Thanks for the offer, but I'm good.

There is a lot of space at the atomic level for an electron to slip about.

I suggest you start at the beginning.

reply to post by poet1b

Since you can't respond in kind to a polite question I'll put it this way; If you knew anything about electricity you wouldn't try to apply hole flow in semiconductors to a gotdam copper conductor.

I've already posted sources for that. You have blown hot air.

ETA:

You gonna back me up?

No. I have looked for information that would back you up since you are unable to provide anything more than your own mistaken concepts.

poet1b
Are you aware that electricity primarily moves on the surface of the conductor?

There's that non-descriptive word "electricity" again. Actually in DC (Direct current) it doesn't, but in AC (Alternating current) at low enough frequencies it's almost like DC so it still doesn't or at least it's not very noticeable, but as the frequency increases, it's the current that moves in a "skin effect" near the surface which becomes more pronounced as frequency increases. I call it current instead of "electricity", because most of the electrical power in transmission lines that deliver power to your home doesn't flow in the conductor at all, rather the electrical power is transmitted via electromagnetic fields which exist mostly outside the conductor.

This has an interesting relevance to plasma. We want the transmission lines to have as high a voltage as possible because then we can deliver the same power with as low a current as possible, reducing transmission losses. One problem is, as we use higher voltages, there is more power flowing outside the conductor, and at a certain point and in certain atmospheric conditions, the air surrounding the conductor becomes ionized (turns into plasma), an undesirable effect called corona discharge. This is why if you look at very high voltage power transmission lines they split up the conductors to prevent corona discharge, though it also helps improve transmission efficiency because of the skin effect you alluded to.

DenyObfuscation
reply to post by poet1b

 

Since you can't respond in kind to a polite question I'll put it this way; If you knew anything about electricity you wouldn't try to apply hole flow in semiconductors to a gotdam copper conductor.

I've already posted sources for that. You have blown hot air.

ETA:

You gonna back me up?

No. I have looked for information that would back you up since you are unable to provide anything more than your own mistaken concepts.

edit on 19-3-2014 by DenyObfuscation because: (no reason given)

Yeah he talks in circles hoping no one will notice his whole plasma is electricity thing is full of holes itself. Thats why i started asking him for his definitions which he refuses to give you. See than we can tell him hes wrong same thing thise electric universe websites do plat with definition in order to mislead.See hes talking about circuit boards and tracing electron flow. They teach you this in a tech school. See in electronic circuits some designers prefer whats called hole flow as opposed to electron flow.In AC they like to use power supply and the signal path.Hes had a course in electronics and thinks he understands the science. First the holes dont move they teach this in electronics as a visualization. Electrons in a wire drift meaning they take a very erratic path and depending on if were talking DC or AC. In AC electrons dont flow from one atom to the next the magnetic field does causing the electrons to vibrate but there position stays relatively the same. In DC the electrons move from one atom to the next. Hes confusing all these things into an incoherent mess thats why he thinks hes an engineer and scientists dont know anything. He doesnt realize the science is dumbed down for engineers because they dont need to know how it works only that it does.

poet1b
reply to post by DenyObfuscation

 

There is a lot of space at the atomic level for an electron to slip about.

I suggest you start at the beginning.

edit on 19-3-2014 by poet1b because: (no reason given)

Ok, how about here?

Note: It is usual to use the term charge carriers to describe the particle that physically move when a current flows. In metals these charge carriers are electrons, in semi-conductors they may be electrons or 'holes', in an ionic solution both positive and negative ions move and in a gas both electrons and ionised gas particles move.

pfnicholls.com...

Your hole flow theory in a copper wire seems to be a belief held by you and only you. Most would just admit they were wrong and move on and quit trying to confuse people.

reply to post by Arbitrageur


Thanks Arb, good to see someone post with something to contribute.

This is all speculative stuff. DC does seem to travel deeper within the conductor, and also has problems with long distance travel.

What I see is that plasma and energy seem to be the same thing.

Wait and see if ten years from now this becomes a popular way of looking at energy.

reply to post by DenyObfuscation


And the engineers I work with doing R&D.

Your link only proves that what I have posted is correct.

poet1b
POST REMOVED BY STAFF

Ive noticed whenever you are shown to be wrong you attack instead of address the issues. This mean you cant answer the questions or are you afraid answering any of our questions will reveal a flaw in your logic. See lets assume all free electrons where plasma which is a 4th state of matter. Then by your difinition all metal is actually a plasma. It would have to be unless your claiming metal turns into plasma in which case please show us the experiments. See im tired of playing your games just post some proof.