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Is Atheism really rational?

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posted on Nov, 24 2004 @ 09:59 PM

Originally posted by Ocelot
The concept of Religion is a man made idea.

Man made!

Man created religion to explain things he didn't understand and it is used as form of psycological control.

Honestly, I don't really think anyone would argue with you about Religion being Man Made. The real question or debate I think for most people isn't about it being Created by Man, but whether or not it was 'Inspired' by 'God' or 'Messieh' or whatever.

It's funny to me people believe the Bible as the be all end all of everything, listen the Bible, koran, or whatever book you worship to was written by man. Hell I could write a book, and make up my own religion.... does that make it true? You know the answer to that.

I'm definately picking up what you're laying down Pal!!
IMO it shows some real 'Insecurity Issues' on behalf of those who 'Must Believe Their Religion is Best'. They seem to live their lives on the assumption that 'Anything Not Officially Authorized as being From the Almighty Himself' must be CRAP!! (As if such Official Authorization is Possible is a Whole Other Subject!)

I suppose by using their own rationale, every other piece of Literature ever made is simply CRAP since it came from some Human Being rather than a 'Divine Source'. Regardless of how True and/or Benificial it may be. "Sorry Socrates, Plato, Galileio and all you other guys out there. If it isn't in the 'Bible/Koran/Torah/etc.' it is all nonesense and garbage."

A great example of this:
For those who've read this book you'll know what I'm talking about. For those who haven't, do yourselves a favor and check it out. Buy it or just read it next time you're at Borders, it only takes like 30min. It looks like a kids book. It's written like a kids book. It's full of pictures like a kids book. It's about a cute little Caterpillar and His Life. The book is Titled, "Hope for the Flowers" and it is probably one of the best books I've ever read. On the outside it seems like just another stupid childrens story, & nothing special. However, within those pages are some of the deepest, truest, most metaphorically accurate and enlightening concepts about Life and our Place in the Cosmos. It is philosophy at it's finest I can promise you. It was written by a normal woman, not some almighty Lord of the Heavens and yet it makes no difference on it's validity. (You see what I'm getting at??)

posted on Nov, 24 2004 @ 10:06 PM

Originally posted by Kriz_4
Maybe not beliveing in a god could be put down to people using their common sense. There is no evidence of any god existing or ever existing. I think relying on a god to explain things that go on around you is a faliure to except the reality of life. Humans are just another animal, just a peice of flesh and blood, just bags of water. Humans seem to feel the need to feel superior to other life forms and species of animal, that is our biggest flaw.

Our existance is an accident, nothing more, nothing less.

Aww man if you are living life that way then you really should go kill yourself now.

posted on Nov, 24 2004 @ 10:16 PM
If your saying Atheism is irrational...what about beleiving in an all-mighty "god". That is irrational to me.

People are just scared of death in general, scared we are not some special little creation being watched over and taken care of. Scared we are gone when we are dead, selfish in a way.

The thing that seems irrational to me, is god and religion in general. This all mighty imaginative figure has to be feared and what not just to get into his special night club, better get on the list. This god of love and kindness has to be feared, or your condemned to hell. Its not love that makes you go to church its fear of being left behind.

When you meet YOUR god tell him i said to visit me in hell...AHAHa. OoOoOO scARy ETeRnAl ToRMENT.

If anything we are in hell right now.

I am not an athiest like it was said earlier, i just don't really care if he exists or not. If he does. Meh, if he doesn't, Meh. It's all just made up to try and explain something we can't.

[edit on 24-11-2004 by _BLiND_]

posted on Nov, 25 2004 @ 01:55 AM

Originally posted by Alec Eiffel
Hows what?

How can one have rational reasons for beleiving that any god in particular exists?

It can actually be supported by sound biological theories

Such as what?

ambient sound
Agnosticism is the only rational and the only honest belief system. One thing that can be said with absolute certainty and truthfulness is that we don't really know if God exists or not.

I think that perhaps this misses the point. Atheists say, bascially, without any reason to beleive in god, why should one? All christians, for example, are part Atheist. That is because they don't beleive in say, shiva, vishnu, the coyote god, or any of the others. They say, why should I beleive in these other gods, there is no reason. And when it comes to their own, they beleive becuase of faith. Agnostics, on the other hand, I think come in two varieties. One type says 'i dunno what to think'. The other says 'i cannot know, rationally, anything about the metaphysical world or any of the characteristics of god, so i will not speculate on them'. Its apparently a slight difference, but I beleive its significant.

It is very rational to say that God does not exist

Why? Any god, being omnipotent and un-restrained by any logical law, can get around any rational reasoning. Also, most of your 'reasons' are just problems, such as it being unfair that children go to hell or some such. No one said it has to be fair. God could be, well, very unfair. Thats not a rational reason for it not to exist.

black jackal
So if Atheism is actually the rational alternative that would make the world in which we live highly irrational.


is it possible to suggest that something hardwired into someone’s being is actually irrational?

Most certainly. Man has rational and irrational abilities. Merely because man's brain has a tendency to do something doesn't make it rational.

If indeed the majority of the earth is mad then how can the rational convert the insane?

Probably not doable, and also probably not necessary. Besides, being 'irrational' isn't exactly the same as being 'insane'. Religion isn't some disease that needs to be cured.

I could never understand how atheists explain everything How could there be everything

Why should atheists have to explain something that theists cannot explain, other than to say 'god did it'? Thats not an explanation. Seems like no one has an explanation for why there is something, rather than nothing.

On the one hand you have, say, a Bhuddist man who devotes his life to peace and meditation and never harms anyone. Or, you have an atheist who devotes his life to serving the welfare of his fellow man or the environment. These men will still go to hell.

This is not hypocritical. Many christian denominations say that people are saved the 'faith alone' 'sole fides' is the term. Its mean, stupid, and wrong, but its not hypocritical nor immpossible. God might very well be that mean and wrong.

you have these "Born Again" Christians who lead lives of decadence and at 50 decide to accept Christ, but still thrive on greed and intolerance

Heck, by sole fides Judas gets into heaven. If works and such mean nothing, but only faith, then Judas should also get to heaven. He betrayed jesus, but he didn't necessarily loose faith in him or reject him as his personal saviour, he just helped have him killed.

Now, many people will say, "but I don't think it does work like that". Then you are creating your own pseudo-religion, and you are not a Christian.

Why? The bible doesn't state that people are saved thru faith alone.

Hence my atheism. I refuse to pray to or believe in any God this twisted and malevolent and I will happily enjoy my time here on earth and in Hell if thats how it turns out

That hardly makes sense. If god is very mean then its best to do what it says anyway. And since its 'all good' by definition, then, well, by sending unborn babies to permanent eternal punishment and having ganhdi tortured ceaselessly for all eternity, then that, by the definition, is good. Regardless, how does one rejecting one particular take on god (this malevolant non-sensicle god that results from sole fides) invalidate or require rejection of every take on god?

Aww man if you are living life that way [beleiveing the world is an empty godless accident] then you really should go kill yourself now.

Why? If one doesn't beleive in any sort of afterlife or meaning for everything or anything, why would that automatically mean that one should kill one's self?

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