It looks like you're using an Ad Blocker.

Please white-list or disable AboveTopSecret.com in your ad-blocking tool.

Thank you.

 

Some features of ATS will be disabled while you continue to use an ad-blocker.

 

Will Pentagon led manufacturing hubs snuff out the American Dream?

page: 2
13
<< 1   >>

log in

join
share:

posted on Feb, 26 2014 @ 06:32 AM
link   
I thought that when corporations combine with government you have fascism? I suppose that would be the ultimate end result of communism though.




posted on Feb, 26 2014 @ 07:51 AM
link   

Expat888
The "american dream" died long ago ..

September 4, 1929 to be exact



posted on Feb, 26 2014 @ 10:02 AM
link   

mrsdudara
reply to post by Indigo5
 


I am not disagreeing with you.

The part of all this that rakes my nerves and has me uncomfortable is, instead of adjusting taxes, and laws to bring the manufacturing companies back here from over seas... the government itself is becoming the manufacturing company.


The irony here is that you are premising this argument on the free-market...while precisely the lack of a free-market is what has driven manufacturing overseas. Manufacturing has moved to China...Where the government employs virtual slave labor and HEAVILY subsidizes and often outright owns the companies that do the manufacturing...Mexico...where chronic poverty and massive corruption conspire to create a more profitable climate for US manufacturers...etc. etc.

Which country that the USA has outsourced manufacturing to would you like to emulate? We are not going to be able to compete on labor costs without first impoverishing or suppressing our people. Where we can compete...and where the USA always succeeds...is innovating and pushing the bleeding edge of technology. In recent years, the USA has made massive innovation leaps in manufacturing and technology, but we have been exporting that technology for free to China and Mexico and India etc. so that they can manufacture our products. If we keep more of it at home, it will fuel manufacturing here.


mrsdudara
In a free market, two companies compete for better quality and prices. If the government enters its hardly a competition anymore because they can simply exclude the competition by way of regulations and use our money to subsidize itself.

Our tax money would be used to subsidize this institution who would turn around and sell us what they are manufacturing at what ever price they want which would be taxed again.


You are confused. I would recommend your research the outcome/technology return of the "Space Race" and the space program in general. Or DARPA derived technologies...Or where the internet came from (hint: not Al Gore)...

When Government develops technology it is Open-Source...they don't "exclude competition" they fuel it...for free...



posted on Feb, 26 2014 @ 10:32 AM
link   
reply to post by Indigo5
 





When Government develops technology it is Open-Source...they don't "exclude competition" they fuel it...for free...


Im sorry, what?

Coercive monopoly
Government monopolies
Government-owned corporation
Nationalization
Government-granted monopoly
edit on 26-2-2014 by Bellor because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 26 2014 @ 10:36 AM
link   
Detroit and Chicago. This should work out well.



posted on Feb, 26 2014 @ 11:30 AM
link   

Bellor
reply to post by Indigo5
 





When Government develops technology it is Open-Source...they don't "exclude competition" they fuel it...for free...


Im sorry, what?

Coercive monopoly
Government monopolies
Government-owned corporation
Nationalization
Government-granted monopoly
edit on 26-2-2014 by Bellor because: (no reason given)


This initiative is none of the above?

I have a degree in economics..otherwise I spent years studying the failings of what you list above...this is not that.

Nothing personal, but you need to read-up on the topic.

It is FUNDED by the pentagon, NOT OWNED...any technology developed is public domain...and benefits PRIVATE companies.

Don't know how else to help you on this?




The University of Iowa’s research and economic development chief says a new $320 million, Pentagon-funded digital manufacturing consortium — which includes all three state universities — will forge new ties between industry and campus researchers.

President Barack Obama on Tuesday announced the creation of a Chicago-based Digital Lab for Manufacturing, a collaboration among dozens of public and private entities aimed at spurring manufacturing innovation and economic growth.

The University of Iowa, the University of Northern Iowa, Iowa State University and the state of Iowa are among the 60 academic institutions, government entities and other organizations included in the consortium.

Industry partners include companies such as John Deere, Caterpillar, Rockwell Collins and Procter & Gamble.


www.desmoinesregister.com... ntpage



Each institute would serve as a regional hub designed to bridge the gap between basic research and product development, bringing together companies, universities and community colleges, and Federal agencies to co-invest in technology areas that encourage investment and production in the U.S. This type of innovation infrastructure provides a unique ‘teaching factory’ that allows for education and training of students and workers at all levels, while providing the shared assets to help companies, most importantly small manufacturers, access the cutting-edge capabilities and equipment to design, test, and pilot new products and manufacturing processes.

www.whitehouse.gov...

I certainly understand the "everything Obama does is socialism" mantra...But the free-market business community is cheering this and for good reason. At some point ...some folks have to afford reality and rational thought priority over the neural trenches their partisan thinking has forged in their cognition.

This is good for the free-market...so says the actual free-market. It is not Gov. owning anything, it is gov. funding research and training to put free-market, private, American manufacturers on the bleeding edge of technology and that means more jobs coming home.
edit on 26-2-2014 by Indigo5 because: (no reason given)

edit on 26-2-2014 by Indigo5 because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 26 2014 @ 12:10 PM
link   
reply to post by Indigo5
 


I will quote your previous statement again.



When Government develops technology it is Open-Source...they don't "exclude competition" they fuel it...for free...


I do not believe this statement to be true

Please reference the links provided in my comment above for reasons why.

If you sincerely believe government monopolies create "free" competition please explain why.

Also I would like clarification on what you mean with regards to this,



Government develops technology it is Open-Source


As I do not believe this to be true either and I am very much positive there exists a complex and lengthy legal system surrounding government research patents and there subsequent commercialization for mass public consumption.

An example of free open source government research would be helpful cheers, no doubt there may be some yes, no doubt at all, but standard practice?, no I dont think so.
edit on 26-2-2014 by Bellor because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 26 2014 @ 12:52 PM
link   

Indigo5

It is FUNDED by the pentagon, NOT OWNED...any technology developed is public domain...and benefits PRIVATE companies.



It is to be LED by the Defense Department who will also provide 1/2 the funding. Entering a partnership with universities and private owned businesses, is NOT the same as just being FUNDED by the government.

The list of companies who are joining in on this venture are companies who will able to use the products from these hubs to build their products. Like the new steel they are wanting to manufacture.

Who makes the money off the product?

However, this is all based off what the Germans are doing. They have 60 hubs and our President wants to compete/out do that. The German economy is doing quite well. Maybe this will be a good thing?



posted on Feb, 26 2014 @ 01:34 PM
link   

Bellor

As I do not believe this to be true either and I am very much positive there exists a complex and lengthy legal system surrounding government research patents and there subsequent commercialization for mass public consumption.

An example of free open source government research would be helpful cheers


uhh...I don't know...the first that comes to mind is the INTERNET that you are using right now! Developed by DARPA.

Nasa...MRI Machines, water purification, Dialyses machines, Cordless tools, LEDs, Solar Cell technology

Hell...that is just off the top of my head.

And while you may be " very much positive there exists a complex and lengthy legal system surrounding government research patents and there subsequent commercialization for mass public consumption."

Saying the same does not make it true....otherwise the earth would be flat.
edit on 26-2-2014 by Indigo5 because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 26 2014 @ 08:20 PM
link   
I can't stand Obama. I voted for him the first time, the second time I didn't. He's the worst President in the history of the U.S. in my opinion. He has lied numerous times and now he wants to get the government involved even more than he already has. He has no clue how to run anything other than, hmmmm, well nothing as he has never really ran anything.

If he had any clue about creating jobs, he wouldn't have to pull a stunt like this. His head is spinning and he goes from one mess to the next, just to create more messes. It's almost like he is trying his best to bury this country and it sickens me.



posted on Feb, 26 2014 @ 08:22 PM
link   
reply to post by roadgravel
 


It won't work out at all and it will become a waste of resources.



posted on Feb, 26 2014 @ 11:08 PM
link   

mrsdudara
Obama to announce creation of 2 Pentagon led manufacturing hubs.
www.foxnews.com...

This new system will now combine the federal agencies, universities and companies into one, or I should say two, new "institutes". One in Detroit that will work on manufacturing light metal. One in Chicago that will "concentrate on high-tech digital manufacturing and design"

Official transition from Capitalism to Socialism? Theory of socialism being that the production, distribution and exchange being owned/regulated by the community as a whole. Marxist theory goes further on to state that it is the transitional phase between capitalism and communism when all property is owned by the government and you get paid according to your abilities and needs. It doesn't sound so far fetched as it did 20 years ago.


It doesn't sound like socialism to me, it sounds like Mussolini's Corporatism. Corporatism is a fascist approach to controlling business by government and business controlling government. Integration, absorption and mergers seem like the way this is going to create the one final corporation to rule them all.

Cheers - Dave



posted on Feb, 27 2014 @ 09:24 AM
link   
reply to post by bobs_uruncle
 


Well, that's a cheery way to put it HA.

I think that theoretically, it has the potential to do well. However the government has a long history of seriously sucking at managing anything. Especially finances. It would be like a government run Union. I think people need to remember that the government is not an entity you are supposed to trust.



posted on Feb, 27 2014 @ 09:41 AM
link   
reply to post by gosseyn
 


Well said . Congress doesn't stand around thinking what new laws to create, the highest bidding lobbyist does.

Interesting timing and push by gov't along with the 250 Billion that Walmart is looking to invest in the next 10 years to bring back manufacturing jobs.



posted on Feb, 27 2014 @ 10:13 AM
link   

Indigo5


uhh...I don't know...the first that comes to mind is the INTERNET that you are using right now! Developed by DARPA.

Nasa...MRI Machines, water purification, Dialyses machines, Cordless tools, LEDs, Solar Cell technology

Hell...that is just off the top of my head.



Another example is the entire electronic age we live in is the direct result of the Government investing into researching some of the earliest concepts leading to the development of the integrated circuit.



posted on Feb, 27 2014 @ 10:30 AM
link   
reply to post by mrsdudara
 



Has the American Dream has been snuffed out? Or is this a way to bring it back?


Da, tovarish! Da!

Never fear... The Central Commit...errr...Government planning people...have it all under control. They know exactly what they're doing. We have no reason to worry. After all, what has the Government done where it hasn't been a total success or at least worked out well? They definitely know best and have our future success and well being at heart. No doubt in my mind. Nope!




posted on Feb, 28 2014 @ 02:33 AM
link   
reply to post by Indigo5
 


Except LEDs, Solar Cells and Batteries for cordless tool were discovered in private labs, by private people, not the government.

I am however trying to get my hands on the D.O.D's latest propulsion technology, what with it being open source, however I am having a hard time finding it. As I would very much like to build my own SR-72 spy drone. You dont have the open source schematics do you?



new topics

top topics



 
13
<< 1   >>

log in

join