Will Pentagon led manufacturing hubs snuff out the American Dream?

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posted on Feb, 25 2014 @ 09:45 AM
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Obama to announce creation of 2 Pentagon led manufacturing hubs.
www.foxnews.com...

This new system will now combine the federal agencies, universities and companies into one, or I should say two, new "institutes". One in Detroit that will work on manufacturing light metal. One in Chicago that will "concentrate on high-tech digital manufacturing and design"

Official transition from Capitalism to Socialism? Theory of socialism being that the production, distribution and exchange being owned/regulated by the community as a whole. Marxist theory goes further on to state that it is the transitional phase between capitalism and communism when all property is owned by the government and you get paid according to your abilities and needs. It doesn't sound so far fetched as it did 20 years ago.

Gone are the days of free enterprise, and privately owned/operated businesses. How would anyone want to compete with businesses like these. Ran by officials who get to say what is allowed and what is not? These new institutions will squash what is left of the small buisnesses.

Has the American Dream has been snuffed out? Or is this a way to bring it back?

I remember the days when my dad would work crazy hours at the steel mill only to grow old and watch the factory (owned by Mitt Romney) close up and move to another country. So many of those men who had worked so hard and risked their lives lost not only their jobs but the retirement money they had earned. Is this new restructuring better or worse?


edit on 25-2-2014 by mrsdudara because: (no reason given)
edit on 25-2-2014 by mrsdudara because: (no reason given)




posted on Feb, 25 2014 @ 09:54 AM
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reply to post by mrsdudara
 



You can bet that if the government is involved these day with this kind of stuff that it will not fare well for the people.
The more placed they stick there noses the more they take away from us



posted on Feb, 25 2014 @ 10:05 AM
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reply to post by mrsdudara
 


So, you tell me... which entity has more contempt for humans --corporations or government? Said another way, whom cares the least?

This really has nothing to do with mom and pop enterprises, but for the sake of argument, group them with individuals.

I'm interested in hearing your reasoning.



posted on Feb, 25 2014 @ 10:07 AM
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Paid according to your abilities and needs??

That's awful. I want no part of that.

I want to be paid based on how much money I already had!



posted on Feb, 25 2014 @ 10:10 AM
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reply to post by mrsdudara
 


What this is---is an attempt to return our military and government being required to by law to buy American made products. As seen during the recent law passed that all flags must be made in America!

The reason is simple during times of war or unrest not having a local source could cause critical shortages in supplies and materials.

It's easy to imagine the problems we'd have is we went to war with the same country who makes our rifles and ammo but conceder this... What if China was the sole source for something simple like the valves used to deliver a cities water supply. What then would happen if China decides not to sell us any more valves and no one within our country is set up to start making replacement parts?

Then of course there are certain products, Mil grade computer chips, nuclear triggers, missile guidance systems, stuff you really don't want to be outsourced but since we manufacture very little in our own country that has become a real problem---from a national security standpoint.



posted on Feb, 25 2014 @ 10:19 AM
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reply to post by mrsdudara
 


I doubt its that bad, as you describe it. I do not know the exact working process of the manufacturing hubs, although getting different companies together working on something can lead to very good results. I believe in many fields, changing the patent system, as well as making the research of private companies more transparent would lead to faster progress. Seeing what has been done elsewhere and comparing it to how you were doing, can open up brilliant ideas. Currently most of the private companies research is hidden.

I personally would see something as start-up hubs as more effective. These would also involve public, as well as private institutions, although these would be directed towards young entrepreneurs.

Starting a new product is incredibly tough, especially nowadays. Unless you are from a very rich family or in a university, it can be next to impossible to create a tech prototype (unless computer-based - app/program). 100 years ago, creating something new was easier, nowadays research tools and equipment necessary to produce and test the prototype could cost millions alone. That is why such start-up hubs could help the manufacturing, as well as innovation a lot, giving the starters necessary contacts and advice from specialists, equipment enabling them to test their products, materials. Such start-up hubs have proven to be incredibly successful in every country, I´ve heard of such term, uplifiting the start-up culture of the nation. The small businesses as well as start ups are the backbone of strong economy. The problem in US currently lies in the power of corporations, small businesses in most fields are simply not able to even compete against big companies. Enabling, making it easier for youth with great ideas, whatever their official education or financial status, to try these out is something that could help the nation a lot long-term.



posted on Feb, 25 2014 @ 10:24 AM
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Well you have to understand that there is no difference between big companies and your government. That's the same people and that's the same goals. The goal of a company in a free enterprise system is to grow and make profit and gain power, thus the goal for a company becomes to take over the government, because that is where the laws are made, that is where the military and police take their orders, that is where the true power over the people resides. Behind those decisions that you seem to be against, you can be sure that there is one or more big company making profit. And there are many examples : weapons manufacturers trying to push for war, banks trying to change laws to their advantage etc..



posted on Feb, 25 2014 @ 10:56 AM
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Those are excellent points. To be perfectly honest, I find myself torn. It seems to go against what I was raised to think was "right", but so much has changed since then. The one thing I think has changed the most is society becoming more educated. With an educated society you can better see that the big companies and the government are close to one in the same.

I know I do miss the middle class, it seems to be falling away.

Maybe this would bring back the middle class?

Structurally for the businesses, I can see both sides.

How do you think this change will affect the average Joe?



posted on Feb, 25 2014 @ 12:12 PM
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Ah the the beginnings of the Reich are forming before our eyes much faster now....the rush seems almost as if there is a desperation in the movement of so much on so many fronts......
I have warned you that the "ideal" society looks like an anthill.....with the elite on top, and the rest far below in the work galleries.....or ranging far afield to feed the bloated "Queens"
This is the fruits of loosing the 2nd WW to the Nazis who survived the 3rd Reich.....all part of the plan.................



posted on Feb, 25 2014 @ 12:30 PM
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Ummm isnt this a bit soviet era communism style of economics?



posted on Feb, 25 2014 @ 12:33 PM
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The American dream never really existed in the first place. Itsjust called "life" everywhere else.

Most capitalist country’s worked exactly the same. If you work hard you may get rich.

There was nothing particular special about the USA. not since the 1920's anyway.

edit on 25-2-2014 by crazyewok because: (no reason given)
edit on 25-2-2014 by crazyewok because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 25 2014 @ 12:38 PM
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mrsdudara
This new system will now combine the federal agencies, universities and companies into one, or I should say two, new "institutes". One in Detroit that will work on manufacturing light metal. One in Chicago that will "concentrate on high-tech digital manufacturing and design"

Official transition from Capitalism to Socialism? Theory of socialism being that the production, distribution and exchange being owned/regulated by the community as a whole. Marxist theory goes further on to state that it is the transitional phase between capitalism and communism when all property is owned by the government and you get paid according to your abilities and needs. It doesn't sound so far fetched as it did 20 years ago.


Wait a minute.

Maybe I'm missing some stepping stones in the process, but wouldn't the government lumping government agencies and civilian/private education & companies into one big ball be considered something like...communism? Exactly how would this system be any different?

Edit: How interesting. I googled this to see if it was just a poorly worked Fox article making it sound a little more ominous than it is. Seems it's a cookie cutter article, just about every search return is the same article.
edit on 2/25/2014 by Nyiah because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 25 2014 @ 01:53 PM
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Nyiah

Wait a minute.

Maybe I'm missing some stepping stones in the process, but wouldn't the government lumping government agencies and civilian/private education & companies into one big ball be considered something like...communism? Exactly how would this system be any different?


You are correct. Lumping government agencies, civilian/private education and companies into one big ball is a big step toward communism by definition. Which is why I am questioning this big step.



posted on Feb, 25 2014 @ 02:02 PM
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reply to post by HardCorps
 


I agree with most of what you are saying. YES we put ourselves at risk by not manufacturing here. We were strong when we worked together to make things here. YES I believe there should be a law that says certain things have to be made in the United States. I do NOT want a made in China gun being put in our military men and women's hands come war time. That is an uncalled for risk.

However, we had/have military bases here that make our ammo and companies here from whom our government bought guns.

What I am questioning is the change from where our government purchases from private American businesses who take care of their own employees AKA Capitalism. To instead, absorbing companies and universities and BECOMING the business itself aka socialism/communism.



posted on Feb, 25 2014 @ 02:14 PM
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reply to post by mrsdudara
 



I have to give it to Obama, at least he is trying to bring the manufacturing business to American with this gesture, now how much of a gesture more than a statement is, I don't know.

Congress has turned him down over and over the built American programs to create employment in the nation, I believe this was part of his creation job promise.

But we have to remember that America is run by a corporate dictatorship that is been buying the politicraps in Washington to further agendas that includes the damage to the American bread and butter that used be the domestic manufacturing business.

Many people of this generation will never know or understand that America used to be a very productive and affluent nation where the middle class prospered, where it was jobs that paid well and people had futures.

That has been completely destroyed behind the free trade agreements and most of America bread and butter has gone oversea leaving the nation with nothing but a growing welfare class of working poor and big spenders on credit cards loans, we went from producers to spenders and look what that has done to our nation.

A nation can not spend when is not liquidity generated, loans and fake money doesn't built wealth unless you belong to the corporate dictatorship that controls the Ponzi scheme.



posted on Feb, 25 2014 @ 02:38 PM
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InverseLookingGlass
reply to post by mrsdudara
 


So, you tell me... which entity has more contempt for humans --corporations or government? Said another way, whom cares the least?

This really has nothing to do with mom and pop enterprises, but for the sake of argument, group them with individuals.

I'm interested in hearing your reasoning.


Governments by far. Governments have slaughtered more people than any other institution. Stalin and Mao together killed around 170 million, directly and indirectly. The US government experiments on it's own people, imports vast quantities of narcotics and then imprisons millions of people involved in the narcotics trade. How many have died as a result?

You could also look at government's sponsoring of government approved monopolies like Monsanto or big pharma. How many have been killed by FDA regulations enforcing use of pharmaceuticals? Probably far more than have been saved from "quack" medicine.

People forget that corporations include many incorporated small family businesses. It is these businesses that hire the most people and provide for the most economic freedom of the populace. Big business loves socialism and it's associated monopolies, but actually hates free enterprise.



posted on Feb, 25 2014 @ 03:39 PM
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reply to post by mrsdudara
 


Yes...Better to have our military tech and manufacturing in-house vs. China.

Yes...These programs already exist all over the country in the tech arena...NC, VA, Mass, CA,,,All have government+Private industry+Academia developing next generation technology.

DARPA for example anyone?

this effort is focused on bringing the newest technology in manufacturing (Robotics, 3D Printers XXX) etc. The good news is that in Gov. led technology innovation efforts, no one "owns" the advances and it spurs spin-offs and private development. That's the reason for the NC Tech Triangle and all the tech companies around MIT (tons of gov research done there)

If the alternative is to leave us dependent on paying China et al. to develop and manufacture our military tech and just hope they don't cut us off, then I am a fan of this.

Manufacturing is increasingly high-tech...and the products that are made are increasingly high-tech...we need to keep it in house.



posted on Feb, 25 2014 @ 04:43 PM
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reply to post by Indigo5
 


I am not disagreeing with you.

The part of all this that rakes my nerves and has me uncomfortable is, instead of adjusting taxes, and laws to bring the manufacturing companies back here from over seas... the government itself is becoming the manufacturing company.

In a free market, two companies compete for better quality and prices. If the government enters its hardly a competition anymore because they can simply exclude the competition by way of regulations and use our money to subsidize itself.

Our tax money would be used to subsidize this institution who would turn around and sell us what they are manufacturing at what ever price they want which would be taxed again.



posted on Feb, 25 2014 @ 09:33 PM
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The "american dream" died long ago .. the only thing this does is pound a few more nails into the coffin..



posted on Feb, 25 2014 @ 09:37 PM
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hmmmm......not really sure what I think about this, but I do know saying it's in Detroit is a bit or a stretch.
So, doubtful it will help the unemployment in that city....it's probably 30 miles from the city.
And in a somewhat upscale suburb...

As part of his year-old promise to expand public-private manufacturing partnerships across the country, Obama announced a new center in his hometown of Chicago, concentrating on high-tech digital manufacturing and design. The other new hub will be located in Canton, Mich., outside Detroit, and specialize in light metal manufacturing.

www.foxnews.com...


Local officials have said Canton seems a logical place for a $148-million manufacturing research institute due to its proximity to Detroit Metro Airport, the I-275 corridor and the University of Michigan. A precise location hasn’t been named.

“It’s a tremendous opportunity,” LaJoy said. “We’re just down the road from the University of Michigan. We’re close to the hub of manufacturing for the nation, really, with Detroit. This is great for Canton. It’s great for the whole area.”

www.hometownlife.com...





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