An Appeal For The Return Or proper Burial Of Body Parts Trophies :

This is not a pleasant Thread, but it's one of those things that needed to be said before we can heal ourselves of the scourge of racism and all kinds of isms and phobias, I came across this story of a state Investigator who told the person he was interviewing that his grandfather kept the skin of a flayed and lynched black man as a trophy used as the wrapping of a knife handle,now this is not the first I have heard of this practice.This Thread is not meant to inspire guilt nor point fingers at present day generation of White folks as they have nothing to do with it. for they as well as us..(Black folks) have our own issues to deal with I do not believe that the sins of the father should be visited on the sons however it is my belief that unresolved issues like this is what keeping us to see each other as truly human.

Clik^
Tennessee Investigator Intimidated
Black People With Lynching Story

Tennessee medical service investigator William Sewell was recently fired after he reportedly intimidated black people with a story about lynching.

Shun Mullins, an African-American, filed a complaint claiming that his mother died after a deputy fire chief refused to perform CPR because she was black and falsified medical reports, noted RawStory.com.

www.onenewspage.us...

This as horrible as this story is this was not the first time I have heard of such,now I can't tell you what was on the mind of the reporter,maybe he was trying to connect or intimidate,my concern is those families that carries such gruesome heirlooms of murders committed by an ancestor,IT IS TIME TO LET IT GO! if the family know who those body parts belonged to please return them it may well give you and the families whose ancestors had been lynched and dismembered peace of mind and closure,if you cannot I.D the family have the parts dna tested for future reference and the rest respectfully buried.

Human Skin and Alligator Babies
:

LEATHER FROM HUMAN SKIN
[Philadelphia News.]
Printed in The Mercury, Saturday March 17, 1888
I remember that two or three years ago I incidentally referred to a prominent physician of this city wearing shoes made from the skin of negroes. He still adhered to that custom, insisting that the tanned hide of an African makes the most enduring and the most pliable leather known to man.

Only last week I met him upon the street with a brand new pair of shoes. I looked at his foot wear, as I always do - his pedal coverings have an irresistible fascination for me - and said, with a smile:

"Is the down trodden African still beneath your feet?" In the most matter of fact way, and without the shadow of a smile, he answered: " I suppose you mean to inquire if I still wear shoes made of the skin of a negro. I certainly do, and I don't propose changing in that respect until I find a leather that is softer and will last longer and present a better appearance. I have no sentiment about this matter. Were I a Southerner - in the American sense of the word - I might be accused of being actuated by a race prejudice. But I am a foreigner by birth, although now an American citizen by naturalization. I fought in the rebellion that the blacks might be freed. I would use a white man's skin for the same purpose if it were sufficiently thick, and if any' one has a desire to wear my epidermis upon his feet after I have drawn my last breath he has my ante mortem permission."

The doctor's shoes always exhibit a peculiarly rich lustrousness in their blackness. He assures me that they never hurt his feet. The new pair he was using when I last saw him emitted no creaking sound and appeared as comfortable as though they had been worn a month. Their predecessors, he told me, had been in constant use for eight months. He obtains the skins from the bodies of negroes which have been dissected in one of our big medical colleges. The best leather is obtained from the thighs. The soles are formed by placing several layers of leather together. The skin is prepared by a tanner at Womseldorf, 16 miles from Reading. The shoes are fashioned by a French shoemaker of this city, who knows nothing of the true character of the leather, but who often wonders at its exquisite smoothness, and says that it excels the finest French calf-skin.

www.ferris.edu...

Yes I get animated when I watch certain political moves of trying to roll back the clock to the not so good ol dayz the use of code words and lack of empathy for murdered kids of any kind including gays.

I had no idea any of this took place and it is truly sick but perhaps having any of this returned to the families would only serve to traumatize them. They may not even know an ancestor went though one of these horrific acts. What good would it serve at this point?

Cool story.

It's interesting to me people freak out about stories like this yet in some places in Africa black tribes have been wearing human remains even eating humans for thousands of years. Of course there were no whites around, they ate their own black brothers and sisters. huh.. interesting.

Dianec
I had no idea any of this took place and it is truly sick but perhaps having any of this returned to the families would only serve to traumatize them. They may not even know an ancestor went though one of these horrific acts. What good would it serve at this point?

In a lot of these cases the victims are known as are the perpetrators, lynchings was a very public affair often done as part of a family picnic ,and a lot of t his was done in living memories of people alive today or one generation removed.

Again I am not assigning guilt or looking for folks to apologize on the behalf of their ancestors,but if these things are in your home or the home of a family member,maybe you want to do something about it.
I believe that Black families involved would see such a step as positive a way of truly burying the past.

JohnPhoenix
Cool story.

It's interesting to me people freak out about stories like this yet in some places in Africa black tribes have been wearing human remains even eating humans for thousands of years. Of course there were no whites around, they ate their own black brothers and sisters. huh.. interesting.

Yes and still do in some cases look up Joshua Milton Blahyi Aka "General Butt Naked" in the Liberian Civil War,since then he found god and is trying to make restitution, but I am speaking from the context of America and ideals and standards we supposedly held above all else,and if I were to get into it I could talk of Cannibalism among White Europeans ancient and modern that ate their own white brothers and sisters,again this is an American context the guy in the first vid is still obviously affected by this and perhaps helped shaped his world view not burying this or really putting this thing to rest damages the psyche.

The sins of the father may not be visited upon on the son, but at-least the son can take that first step in restoring honor to a family's name.

reply to post by Spider879


Concerning the last link, there is a museum in Philadelphia that is filled with medical curiosity specimens. It is the Mutter Museum. It has medical books on display that are bound in human skin. They were owned by Dr. Joseph Leidy. I wonder if this is the same doctor that wore shoes made of human skin? The time frame is right, as he died in 1891.
I live about 10 miles from Womelsdorf, where the skin was tanned, according to your linked story.

butcherguy
reply to post by Spider879

 

Concerning the last link, there is a museum in Philadelphia that is filled with medical curiosity specimens. It is the Mutter Museum. It has medical books on display that are bound in human skin. They were owned by Dr. Joseph Leidy. I wonder if this is the same doctor that wore shoes made of human skin? The time frame is right, as he died in 1891.
I live about 10 miles from Womelsdorf, where the skin was tanned, according to your linked story.

You know it could very will be the as it was from the same city.

reply to post by Spider879


Yes - if they know the families of these victims and have parts of their relatives remains - give them back. If the people don't know - would need to run DNA, it may be best to just make a statement they have these things and they are disposing of them in a respectful manner - maybe inviting anyone who wants to have things checked to come forward.

I read some more on that alligator thing as we'll. The voice of that article found it abhorrent yet also said it was not a common practice. I don't know about that - advertisements out in the public for babies were prevalent enough. While it may not have been common to engage in, people were complicit on a large scale. Social systems should not be taken lightly - as even those who would have felt appalled reminded complicit through inaction.

Ya know, i didn't find the question about if he had ever been in jail offensive at all. I live in New Orleans which is 80% black - most of those have been to jail in one form or another. It's common to ask such a question of a black person here ( from authority figures) because statistically blacks commit more crimes than whites. This is so well known. It gives the authority figure an idea of the type of person he's dealing with.

The ladies there present were wolves - one a young black woman and one a white bible belt conservative type - you KNOW they are gonna take offense to the story - i felt the odds were stacked against this fellow unnecessarily due to this. It's all hearsay because we don't have actual transcripts we could use to judge the mans intent - as he claims, he was just trying to agree with the plight of the poor and down trodden and he took it too far for which he's sorry. I see nothing here that says this man is lying yet.

reply to post by Spider879

I read a bit about Dr. Leidy. He was born in Philadelphia, so he apparently isn't the Dr. cited in the 1888 newspaper account, as that Dr. was foreign born.
On a different subject of the thread....
I can't imagine a thinking person using a human infant as bait for an alligator. I can only hope that there is a special hell for someone like that.

reply to post by Spider879

In a lot of these cases the victims are known as are the perpetrators, lynchings was a very public affair often done as part of a family picnic

Not only family picnics, but Sunday School picnics.

People took their children to lynchings and brought covered dishes. Can you imagine people eating potato salad and baked beans while a screaming man(or woman) is slowly being tortured and burned to death?

With a preacher present.

Sick stuff.

reply to post by JohnPhoenix


I didn't know what to think of his story either because he insists he was telling of how wrong he felt the practice was, not bragging about it. Social systems at work make it difficult to decide. It may seem better to take the side of those who heard the story given he admitted to a relative being a part of these practices (and also having evidence of this). If it came to one persons word over another's, with that sort of evidence, it would be hard to not take their side. Otherwise it could create a backlash or make white investigators complicit - via who they believe. The tendency to not be 100% objective in this instance would be high. It's truly hard to sort out the context of his story telling. Is he paying the price for his ancestors deeds due to his association or did he really tell the story in a way that portrayed pride in those ancestors?

Dianec
reply to post by Spider879

 

Yes - if they know the families of these victims and have parts of their relatives remains - give them back. If the people don't know - would need to run DNA, it may be best to just make a statement they have these things and they are disposing of them in a respectful manner - maybe inviting anyone who wants to have things checked to come forward.

I read some more on that alligator thing as we'll. The voice of that article found it abhorrent yet also said it was not a common practice. I don't know about that - advertisements out in the public for babies were prevalent enough. While it may not have been common to engage in, people were complicit on a large scale. Social systems should not be taken lightly - as even those who would have felt appalled reminded complicit through inaction. [/quote

Yes it seem it was localized in certain areas but the pop culture spin off was enormous those images followed through to Disney and finally petered out I guess sometime in the 60ts/ 70ts?? so when people hang a noose over a tree taunting African American kids on an opposing wrestling team and said it was all in jest lets be clear how not funny that jest is.

reply to post by Spider879


I actually saw the image of a baby being chased by an alligator somewhere long ago - it was familiar so with your saying these were displayed as art I believe it. I had never heard of the saying "gator bait" before last night. Those sayings or mock lynchings are nothing to joke about - yet it's clear they aren't teaching the history of it enough to let young people know what it means if they are engaging in this stuff.

JohnPhoenix
Ya know, i didn't find the question about if he had ever been in jail offensive at all. I live in New Orleans which is 80% black - most of those have been to jail in one form or another. It's common to ask such a question of a black person here ( from authority figures) because statistically blacks commit more crimes than whites. This is so well known. It gives the authority figure an idea of the type of person he's dealing with.

The ladies there present were wolves - one a young black woman and one a white bible belt conservative type - you KNOW they are gonna take offense to the story - i felt the odds were stacked against this fellow unnecessarily due to this. It's all hearsay because we don't have actual transcripts we could use to judge the mans intent - as he claims, he was just trying to agree with the plight of the poor and down trodden and he took it too far for which he's sorry. I see nothing here that says this man is lying yet.

First off why are you defining those women as wolves, second why should it matter if the man in question did any jail time, his mom had died through neglect because of the non action of that racist fire chief who fit the stereotype and that he apparently knew, it seems the investigator was fishing for a way to some how switch culpability onto the man in question or simply write him off as an ex-con,which if he had been he would have paid his debt to society, as to Blacks in prison they are x amount of times more likely to be arrested for the same offense that whites commit and given longer sentences sometimes depending on location, I grew up in Brooklyn and of all my friends and there were a lot of us,only one got himself entangled with the law and did time and this was back in the days when crime in NYC was really high.

But more to the point of this thread trophies of murdered human parts,he bought it up whether he was sympathetic or not it clearly affected him, and like I stated earlier that I had heard stories like this before,the above is ugly and I am hoping that folks out there who know of such trophies do something about it. btw I don't know if the good folks at Skull and Bones returned the skull of Geronimo and these were high society cream of the crop North Eastern establishment types.

Dianec
reply to post by Spider879

 

I actually saw the image of a baby being chased by an alligator somewhere long ago - it was familiar so with your saying these were displayed as art I believe it. I had never heard of the saying "gator bait" before last night. Those sayings or mock lynchings are nothing to joke about - yet it's clear they aren't teaching the history of it enough to let young people know what it means if they are engaging in this stuff.

True enough that's why the young, when they do something stupid there is a lot of hand wringing by adults who should know better complained about how a certain community is being overly sensitive and demanding that all should live in a P.C world.

I had heard the term gator bait,but didn't know there was anything even remotely racial in it,this off course was before I did any research or knew that babies were formally used in that manner.

butcherguy
reply to post by Spider879

 

I read a bit about Dr. Leidy. He was born in Philadelphia, so he apparently isn't the Dr. cited in the 1888 newspaper account, as that Dr. was foreign born.
On a different subject of the thread....
I can't imagine a thinking person using a human infant as bait for an alligator. I can only hope that there is a special hell for someone like that.

The cold truth is if there is no heaven or hell then they escaped all consequences some would go on to live successful lives and died quietly in their beds.

reply to post by Spider879

they escaped all consequences

Barring the existence of Hell, I would be willing to bet that at least some had a conscience. They may have had a living hell in their own mind at least.

Warning: extremely offensive/gross discussion to follow:

I'd have to say by this date it's likely if someone has a pre civil war era bit of amputational Americana, they don't know what it is. I've never heard of anyone having African-American boots on the mantle or the like, and I'd think I probably would have, living in Georgia during my formative years. God knows you heard about every other bit of Civil War memorabilia anyone had lying around.

On the other hand, there is something that's much more...contemporary. And that's bits of Vietnamese people. Not so long ago, during the Vietnam conflict, it was de rigueur amongst special operations forces, not the least of which was MACV-SOG, that you kept a necklace of people's former ears. There were a lot of guys that had ear collections. It got to the point that they finally put their foot down about that sort of thing, not that it stopped, although these days it's not as fashionable as it once was.

Now, you want to count Asian ear collections, I have two very close relatives that have enough ears to restore hearing to a third world country. And I know several more friends of mine who have ears from Somalia, Grenada and the like. I think if you had a joint forces ear/finger/other (I won't say) surrender of body part souvenirs, you could dwarf any Civil War era collection several hundred times over.

Bedlam
Warning: extremely offensive/gross discussion to follow:

I'd have to say by this date it's likely if someone has a pre civil war era bit of amputational Americana, they don't know what it is. I've never heard of anyone having African-American boots on the mantle or the like, and I'd think I probably would have, living in Georgia during my formative years. God knows you heard about every other bit of Civil War memorabilia anyone had lying around.

On the other hand, there is something that's much more...contemporary. And that's bits of Vietnamese people. Not so long ago, during the Vietnam conflict, it was de rigueur amongst special operations forces, not the least of which was MACV-SOG, that you kept a necklace of people's former ears. There were a lot of guys that had ear collections. It got to the point that they finally put their foot down about that sort of thing, not that it stopped, although these days it's not as fashionable as it once was.

Now, you want to count Asian ear collections, I have two very close relatives that have enough ears to restore hearing to a third world country. And I know several more friends of mine who have ears from Somalia, Grenada and the like. I think if you had a joint forces ear/finger/other (I won't say) surrender of body part souvenirs, you could dwarf any Civil War era collection several hundred times over.

edit on 25-2-2014 by Bedlam because: (no reason given)

Yes I have heard of that also, I am thinking that most of those are combatants where raw hate and anger ran high,but in the case of African Americans during the era of slavery and Jim Crow that was not hatred but extreme contempt for a largely bound community with no power.
Incidentally pls try and convince your friends and family members to do right by those war trophy body parts put the dead to rest, sometime ago I made a thread about how one African civilization that out lined the treatment on captives some 700yrs ago

Kouroukan Fouga The Constitution of Ancient Mali
Article 41: You can kill the enemy, but not humiliate him.
www.abovetopsecret.com...