Ray Hagins PhD - The Council That Created Jesus Christ (lecture)

reply to post by DeadSeraph


very good arguement
star

reply to post by Lucid Lunacy


some one posted a baseball player from the 60s and 70s named
JESUS
he batted over three hundred for several years
thats a wonderful thing

its on the jesus would bat 400 thread

adjensen
reply to post by UnBreakable

 

I'll defer to your vast knowledge since you must've existed thousands of years ago and know such great detail, no doubt as witness to both the Horus and Jesus myths.

I cited the texts of the Egyptians who worshipped Horus to dispute your claims -- are you saying that you know their gods better than they do? Seriously, find me some religious Egyptian texts from 2,500 years ago that clearly state that Horus was born of a virgin, walked on water and was crucified. 'Cause I'd sure like to see them.

Oh, and by the way, my source says Horus was crucified.

Your "source" is D.M. Murdoch, who is not accepted as a credible source, even by people who generally agree with her.

edit on 25-2-2014 by adjensen because: (no reason given)

So, you're saying you have access to original 2,500 year old Egyptian texts, and have interpreted the complete story of Horus from such source texts. Well, you're a better personthan myself who can only cite sources already interpreted and passed down, like the Bible.

reply to post by Danbones

some one posted a baseball player from the 60s and 70s named
JESUS
he batted over three hundred for several years
thats a wonderful thing

its on the jesus would bat 400 thread

As much as I love a good brain twister I would appreciate if your posts were less cryptic.

What are you driving at specifically?

He wasn't just invented, he was recreated. His story was around long before he was.

reply to post by adjensen

Like I said, she reconstructed Osiris' body and had sex with it. Whether Osiris is a god or not isn't really of consequence -- she still had sex with him. Hardly the behaviour of a virgin.

Well, that's one version, but not the mainstream version. I don't where you got that quote, but here is a quote from the Hymn to Osiris

Thy sister protected thee, and she drove away thy foes, and she warded off from thee evil hap, and uttered the words of power with all the skill of her mouth; her tongue was trained, and she committed no fault of utterance, and she made [her decree and [her words to have effect, Isis, the mighty one, the avenger of her brother. She sought thee without weariness, she went round about through this land in sorrow, and she set not to the ground her foot until she had found thee. She made light with her feathers, she made air to come into being with her wings, and she uttered cries of lamentation at the bier of her brother. 16. She stirred up from his state of inactivity him whose heart was still (i.e., Osiris), she drew from him his seed, she made an heir, she suckled the babe in solitariness, and the place wherein she reared him is unknown, and his hand is mighty within the house of Seb. The company of the gods rejoice and are glad at the coming of Horus, the son of Osiris, who heart is stablished, and whose word taketh effect, the son of Isis and the heir of Osiris.

Read more: www.touregypt.net...

Here is a more prosaic version of the story.

Only Isis, blessed Isis, remembered us. Only she was unafraid of Set. She searched all of the Nile for the box containing her beloved husband. Finally she found it, lodged in a tamarisk bush that had turned into a mighty tree, for the power of Osiris still was in him, though he lay dead. She tore open the box and wept over the lifeless body of Osiris. She carried the box back to Egypt and placed it in the house of the gods. She changed herself into a bird and flew about his body, singing a song of mourning. Then she perched upon him and cast a spell. The spirit of dead Osiris entered her and she did conceive and bear a son whose destiny it would be to avenge his father. She called the child Horus, and hid him on an island far away from the gaze of his uncle Set.

Read more: www.touregypt.net...

No reconstructed penis, no sex. As a matter of fact, the story of her turning into a bird sounds a whole lot like the "holy spirit" who supposed impregnated the virgin Mary.

After that, Set tore apart and scattered the body of Osiris.

Anubis sewed the pieces back together, washed the entrails of Osiris, embalmed him wrapped him in linen, and cast the Ritual of Life. When Osiris' mouth was opened, his spirit reentered him and he lived again.

Yet nothing that has died, not even a god, may dwell in the land of the living. Osiris went to Duat, the abode of the dead. Anubis yielded the throne to him and he became the lord of the dead. There he stands in judgment over the souls of the dead. He commends the just to the Blessed Land, but the wicked he condemns to be devoured by Ammit.

That sounds familiar.

Isis is the perpetual virgin who "No man hath unveiled". Mary asked, "How can this be when I have never been with a man?" Neither Isis nor Mary were with men or had carnal sex in order to get pregnant. Both bore a child who was the emmination of the father and the son.

There's so much more in the two stories that shows the relationship of the Osiris mysteries and the evolution of Jesus Christ!

reply to post by Lucid Lunacy

Did god have sex to make Adam? Or did he make him out of dust

Apparently, God wanted us to all know all about how he made Adam from the dust of the ground, and then breathed life into his nostrils and Adam became a living soul. Because, supposedly he told Moses all about it, who in turn, wrote it in the Torah. But, when it came to the young unmarried virgin maiden Mary, God didn't "kiss and tell" did he?

Who ya gonna believe?

However, taking the myth for what it is, and not reading it literally, both Jesus and Horus were accused of being bastards.

Wherefore also [Horus] is said to have a charge of bastardy brought against him by Typhon—of not being pure and unalloyed like his sire, Reason (Logos), itself by itself, unmixed and impassible, but bastardized with matter on account of the corporeal [element]. 1

4. Nevertheless, Horus gets the best of it and wins, through Hermes—that is, the Reason (Logos) 2—bearing witness and showing that Nature reflects the [true] Cosmos by changing her forms according to That-which-mind-alone-can-conceive.

www.sacred-texts.com...

It's necessary to the myth for Jesus Christ to have born of a virgin for his earthly incarnation to mirror the same trials and victories that Horus endured and won in Heaven.

reply to post by windword


I think there is a middle ground between what's being discussed here. It's my position at least. I believe Jesus existed, was a Jewish rabbi, was a leader of a movement.. but the mythology surrounding him was invented and some was borrowed from earlier traditions.

reply to post by Lucid Lunacy


I concur. Except I think that Jesus was an Essene master, from the Nazorean sect.

Plutarch was a contemporary of Jesus, if he existed. Plutarch's treatise on Proper Reason is a virtual outline for the basics of esoteric Christianity, but it's his explanation of the Egyptian mysteries. Many people/scholars assert that Plutarch wrote the Gospel of Luke and the Acts of the Apostles! If that's true, what does that say about the roots of Christianity?

Klassified
reply to post by adjensen

 

I wanna be careful how I say this, but there are also videos on youtube rewriting known Egyptian history. The reason I mention this is, because this guys presentation is eerily similar to those other videos. I'll leave it at that.

I see agenda, like those social study texts published by Saudi company, nazi NWO agenda.

Lucid Lunacy
reply to post by windword

 

First of all, the virgin birth IS a myth. Secondly, Mary had to have been penetrated to have become pregnant.

Did god have sex to make Adam? Or did he make him out of dust

You either accept a supernatural being has supernatural powers or you don't I guess. If you accept Moses split an ocean in two, why not god impregnating Mary supernaturally? To me it seems someone should believe the whole of it or dismiss all of it [as it pertains to the miracles].

Personally I think Mary wasn't a virgin and had sex with a man.

The parting of the red sea is a metaphor for overcoming anger and retaliation. Moses said, man of peace, be still and know God. (I refrain from the word, lord, throne, all the pyramid slave type stuff for Family is humble of heart). Gnosis, inner meanings. Paul had referred to Moses and the red sea as what baptism meant, and that seems to be meditation, meeting of God, turning ones life to a new direction homeward bound. There is a lot of Tao there. And God stays Love, not the murderer of real armies, kings pharoahs, but one who hangs out with the sinner to help him make straight his/her ways.

I would suggest that it was more akin to an ET thing, and probably not natural, and that there is a ufology related event going on, from on High. If indeed Christ was real and meant to anchor in this freedom from karma, and forgiveness, lessons of spirit, and showing the Way, and indeed if He was literally a man/God who WAS the way. But to me, even if metaphor, he was the way.

reply to post by theabsolutetruth



reply to post by Unity_99


Hey, since this thread started with a cheesy conspiracy video, I don't feel too bad adding this one to the mix. I love this guy, he's irreverent and very funny. But, SPOT ON!

It's super long, so bookmark it. Check it out sometime, I think it's up your alley!

reply to post by windword


It wouldn't have been rape. If he was real and therefore ufology related, because that is what it would be, she would also have come in on assignment for this one and her lineage would also have been important, possibly as James Gilliland says, a purer Lyra type strain. That would sort of mean, human type strain really. I don't consider it necessary for him to be real to show the way back home, because that is the way back home. I don't prefer any boxes.

Those who wish to justify more violent aggressive and controlling religions usually don't like Christianity. (note we're not talking about leadership and crusades, but the actual grass roots directives to follow Christ's footsteps as the mainstay group of Christians, those who attempt to do this at least to some extent, and have faith in Love and Goodness directing them).

Did god have sex to make Adam? Or did he make him out of dust

Adam took hundreds of millions of years to evolve from the primordial ooze. So no, god didn't have sex to make Adam and no, he wasn't made from dust.

reply to post by windword

Well, that's one version, but not the mainstream version.

The "mainstream version"? What the heck is that? Something re-written for tourists?

Again, your level of reaching is obvious -- the ancient Egyptians didn't think that she was a virgin. Find me a positive affirmation in their religious texts, a clear declaration that Isis was a virgin.

Once you find that there is none, think about why Mary is claimed to be a virgin and Isis is not, but I'll save you the time and just tell you: theologically, it doesn't make any difference if Isis is a virgin or not, but it makes all the difference is Mary is or not. In the case of Isis, it's two gods procreating to produce another god, pretty prosaic stuff, and her virginity plays no part.

In the case of Mary, it is important, for two reasons -- first, it fulfills the prophecy of Isaiah, second, it explains the Doctrine of the Incarnation, how Jesus is fully man and fully God.

Now, if you want to make the claim that the authors of the Gospels were aware of Isaiah and invented the virginity of Mary in order to fit that in, that's a legitimate argument. But if, like the Christ Mythicists, you want to claim that the authors of the Gospels knew of the Egyptian legends of Isis, chose to interpolate her virginity in a similar fashion to what you have done, and decided to "swipe" that attribute and apply it to a the mother of Jesus simply because it seemed like something that his mother should be, that's a stretch of epic proportions.

adjensen
...that's a stretch of epic proportions.

"Stretch of epic proportions" ............like his own mother being a virgin? like walking on water? I could go on but the whole New Testament is a stretch of epic proportions.

adjensen
reply to post by windword

 

second, it explains the Doctrine of the Incarnation, how Jesus is fully man and fully God.

When stated this way, this seems so predictably human in the crafting of this story.

I revere the core tenets of Christianity...but have a really hard time swallowing the story. Above is a good reason why. It seems to have all the key points needed to gain credibility with a superstitious populace. Right down to Jesus being man and God at the same time.

Not to mention the convenient use of classical numerology (in use for thousands of years before that fateful day in a manger).

reply to post by adjensen

Again, your level of reaching is obvious -- the ancient Egyptians didn't think that she was a virgin. Find me a positive affirmation in their religious texts, a clear declaration that Isis was a virgin.

Okay, how about this one?

The Tablet of ISIS, or “Bembine Tablet” was recovered in 1527 after the sacking of Rome. It now resides in the Museum of Antiquities at Turin and is a bronze tablet measuring 50 by 30 inches. It was probably used as an altar, and it is said that it was present in the subterranean vault under the Great Pyramid when Plato received his Initiation there.

“The Egyptians considered the Divinity in two manners, as an Eternal Existence, self-constituted and quite apart from terrestrial concerns, or in connection with created objects which it governs by ministering spirits, and secondary powers. They admitted a Triple essence of Deity, and also a triform secondary divinity, as they had learned of Hermes Trismegistus. This Divinity imprinted his seal upon all earthly things, both living and dead. Upon this same essential plan was this Tablet constructed.” [Athanasius Kircher, Oedipus Aegytiacus, 1654 AD.

The Tablet of Isis

Tradition teaches that the goddess ISIS was instructed by Hermes or Thoth, the god of magick, writing and words. By magick power ISIS promulgated writing and learning, caused men to love women, was the protectress of sailors and all vessels that sail the seas. She provided law and justice and instructed mankind in the sacred mysteries. In ISIS, truth is made perfect and beautiful. The inscription from her temple at Sais reads: “I am Isis, I am all that is, that has been, and that will be, and no mortal has ever yet withdrawn my veil.” To the Initiates of her mysteries, she lifts her veil – but they are to remain forever silent about what they have seen.

Then there's the Saitic Isis, by Plato where Plato reiterates the claim. archive.org...

“I, Isis, am all that has been, that is or shall be; no mortal man hath ever me unveiled. The fruit which I have brought forth is the sun."

The face and form of Isis were covered by a veil of scarlet cloth, symbolic of ignorance and emotionalism standing between man and Truth. Isis lifts her veil and discovers herself to the true and wise investigator who unselfishly and humbly seeks to understand the mysteries which surround him in the universe; and warns Wise Men concerning the mysteries which they have seen: "If you know it, be silent."

Finally, here's an image from the Temple of Isis that depicts the conception of Horus. Isis is hovering above in the form of a hawk. There's no phallus involved in the ritual.

reply to post by windword


Thanks WW, that's the best evidence/explanation I've seen regarding the Horus conception. Kudos.

reply to post by Lucid Lunacy


If I may inquire...if half the bible was plagiarized, how can you trust the rest of it?