Does the working "celtic cross" and the work of LA WADDEL prove xianity is DEAD WRONG ?

bigfatfurrytexan
reply to post by Danbones

 

I am a firm believer in the relevance of Mazlow's hierarchy/pyramid when applied to the general human condition. Once you see disease begin to decline, and food shortages ease up, you see a European with a more robust outlook on life.

We are all only 1 catastrophe from having the upper levels of the pyramid removed. Weather tends to be the primary culprit.

Maslow's theory was fully expressed in his 1954 book Motivation and Personality.[5] While the hierarchy remains a very popular framework in sociology research, management training[6] and secondary and higher psychology instruction, it has largely been supplanted by attachment theory in graduate and clinical psychology and psychiatry.[7

en.wikipedia.org...'s_hierarchy_of_needs

I can see why Maslows is popular in use, its straight forward enough
for attachment theory you almost need a formal education to get through it
but both look valid in certain ways

what strikes me are incidents like the story that there was such certainty that the end was coming in the year one thousand no one planted and then they almost starved (don't know if that's true )

and then the religious wars in Europe

But the bones that have been excavated from the graves of people buried in England in the years around 1000 tell a tale of strong and healthy folk — the Anglo-Saxons who had occupied the greater part of the British Isles since the departure of the Romans. Nine out of ten of them lived in a green and unpolluted countryside on a simple, wholesome diet that grew sturdy limbs and very healthy teeth. It was during the centuries that followed the first millennium that overpopulation and overcrowding started to aVect the stature and well-being of western Europeans. Excavations of later medieval sites reveal bodies that are already smaller than those discovered from the years around 1000, and archaeologists who have studied these centuries say that they can almost see the devastation of the Black Death looming in the evidence of the increasingly frail and unhealthy skeletal remains.4

www.wikitree.com...
maybe swivilization isn't such a good idea after all lol

reply to post by Danbones


Great thread Dan, I S&F'd you!

I love Miller's theory not least because it can help us to date stones such as these more accurately, rather than glibly passing them off as 'Christian' and then squeezing them into that time-frame. Here's a model in it's stone glory:



But people then didn't sail far, did they, particularly the northern Europeans? So why did they need such instruments? Oh wait - they did:

Viking Outpost found in Canada (again) - National Geographic

reply to post by Danbones


reply to post by stirling


So what? Mao Zedong, an atheist, killed between 40 and 70 million people alone. And in China, this is considered maoism's brightest hour.

As for the latin cross, it was originally an instrument of torture and death. People like thieves were attached to a cross and let die there. What I would be asking is, why does the Vatican promotes the symbol of Jesus's torture, instead of actually showing him alive and well? Do buddhists walk around with a pendant showing Buddha getting tortured around their neck??

reply to post by beansidhe


I believe the Atlantic Ocean was a violent, roiling tempest shortly after the end of the last ice age. The massive influx of fresh water from the North American continent during the glacial dam flooding created a lot of turmoil as the salinity of the Atlantic fought to stabilize, and the water sought equilibrium.

I believe before this, people sailed frequently. Afterwards, the sailing into the Atlantic stopped. The seafaring ways became limited to coastal hops.

THe cross is literally ancient. From before man has any memory.

The whole "ice age vinland" concept, whereby vinlanders found a glacial warm paradise due to odd weather and geothermal events is interesting.

for the flat earthers
here is an excerpt from the intro to the copy of the book of enoch i have
note the reference the description of the the plANet EArth

pillers and corners and flat

any referance to circles is in regards to the path of celestial bodies in the sky over a flat earth
with an edge you could fall off
or to the horizen when on the water ...which is a circle around the viewer

if that don't gitcha they throw in the occasional "here be monsters"

Chapters xvii. to xxxvi. give a graphic description
of the miraculous journeys of Enoch in. the
company of an angel, from whom he learns the
secrets of creation and the mysteries of Infinity.
From the top of a lofty mountain " which reached
to heaven," he beheld the receptacles of light^
thunder, and lightning, "the great darkness or
mountains of gloom which constitute winter, the
mouths of rivers and of the deep,

the stone which
supports the corners of the earth, and the four winds
which bear up the earth, and constitute the pillars
of heaven." ^ Is not this obviously the inspired cosmology,
through which the author of the Book of
Enoch unconsciously condemned mediaeval physicists
to the stake for impiously proclaiming the mobility
of the earth ? If an inspired prophet saw the stone
which supports the corners of the earth, how inexpiable
the guilt of men, who fostered scepticism
through the heliocentric theory of a world coursing
swiftly round the sun !

from
THE BOOK OF ENOCH
THE PROPHET
TKANSLATED FKOM
AN ETHIOPIC MS. IN THE BODLEIAN LIBEARY
BY THE LATE
KICHARD LAURENCE, LL.D.
ARCHBISHOP OF CASHEL
THE TEXT NOW CORRECTED FROM HIS LATEST NOTES
WITH AN' INTRODUCTION BY
THE AUTHOR OF '' THE EVOLUTION OF CHRISTIANITY

LONDON
KEGAN PAUL, TRENCH & CO., 1, PATERNOSTER SQUARE

reply to post by bigfatfurrytexan


also the ice was two miles high in places
imagine the sudden tidal waves when huge chunks of that crashed of like a mountains side
and also maybe the earth quakes as the weight suddenly changed and mud slides as the ground waters unfroze

BO XIAN

It doesn't negate, for me, The Cross of Calvary as a supreme symbol of Love and sacrifice.

ANYTHING which takes away from, diminishes, questions, the Deity of and supreme uniqueness of Christ . . . and the eternal fulcrum of The Cross and The Resurrection is destructively inaccurate, from my perspective.

It was the Blood of Jesus Christ spilled to the Earth (side pierced with a spear) as the Passover sacrifice for all mankind that fulfilled the prophecy of the Christ. Jesus did not die from being hung on a pole/stake (suffocation); he died from having his blood spilled to the Earth by the spear which pierced his side, while he was hung on a pole/stake.

Why is a "cross" of cavalry considered the "supreme symbol of love and sacrifice" if he died from his blood being spilled?

If he was beheaded by guillotine would that be the "supreme symbol of love and sacrifice"? Would Christians around the world make guillotines out of gold to bow down to and ware around their necks?

The fulfillment of prophecy was in the Passover sacrifice of the "Lamb of God", who takes away the sins of mankind. Just like the Passover lamb has to shed his blood upon the Earth for the removal of sins; so too did the Lamb of God (Jesus Christ) who was sacrificed on the day of Passover had to shed his blood upon the Earth. If he died of suffocation on the pole/stake he would not have fulfilled prophecy.

"Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image (symbol of worship), or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth. Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them, nor serve them." - 2nd commandment

A "cross" is an object existing "in the Earth beneath" it is not a "symbol" representing love or sacrifice in spirit and in truth.

God Bless,

reply to post by swanne


yes, if a banker installed dictator killed millions its ok for christians to do it too
well i'm glad thats settled then

if the ( self proclaimed christian at time when it suits) americans had delivered the ammo the nationalists had paid for like they did for the maoists who had also bought their arms from, then that litlle bugger might never have got into power at all

after all the religioes kill themselves off, I'm going to sail over to somewhere nice and build me a pyramid

reply to post by Danbones


I have written about that idea here, too. The YD impact event is a good thought experiment to work through that with.

When it "impacted" i can imagine that the pressure melted large amounts of ice on the bottom of the glaciers (ice melts under pressure, no matter how cold it is) which created its own run off. Add to this the downward pressure on the glacier, en masse, and the resulting return shock of the water that is underground. Aquifers would be literally exploding with pressure from such an impact, and gentle rivers would suddenly become explosive torrents of water.

Then you have the pressures on the tectonic plate, and the "wobble" that it would cause. Press one side of that plate down, the other side goes up. Then it teeters back and forth trying to find stability. These teeters would suck in huge amounts of water, then spit them back out under the intense weight of geological pressure. You may even end up with some seismic events such as earthquakes causing tsunamis.

The massive stress on the tectonic plates would be absorbed by the water and be dissipated mostly via ice movement and water movement. Thus, you don't end up with continental explosions of volcanos. But you do end up with global oceans in utter turmoil.

I have always wondered (and perhaps Beansidhe has some insight, if not other members)....why did the irishmen not use fishing as a sustenance during the potato famine?

reply to post by bigfatfurrytexan


Id like to read that
could you post or send me the link(s)?

the Waddel work i keep threatening to get posted indicates civilization came down of a mountain north of mesopotamia and rebuilt civilization...I guess that's the contention of this thread

That's where I really feel not just biblical mythology but also Algonquin, and Norse and others are completely misguided.
I believe the Celtic cross and the linguistics prove this

reply to post by bigfatfurrytexan


As far as I understand, the Irish had no land, no rights to land and were subject to corrupt landlords. Those inlanders were trapped, for want of a better word. Those on the coasts would, I guess, have faired better. Remember that the Penal Laws were also in place, and so many, many suffered horribly under them.

It was a complicated, messy and political affair, rather than an unfortunate case of blight, as I'm sure you're very well aware.
You'd be better speaking to someone Irish about it, because I don't know that much about it.

As far as your earlier theory, about early sailors, yes I think you are right. There is a horrible smugness in the way we have been led to think about our ancestors - they were barely able to fashion homes etc - that just simply isn't true.

reply to post by Danbones


there is another book, which if you read and understood it, would make the bible tell another, greater story... I apologise for the illusiveness but I believe this information is to be found by yourself as opposed to given to you, although I dare say, it's probably been said on ATS a few times, but the bible isn't meant to be just 'read' and understood, it contains an exoteric and an esoteric meaning and people are always quoting the bible and its literal meaning as proof of this and that... this is why the Templar and other occultists were really persecuted... they knew there was more to the bible, through their discoveries and 'encounters' with the saracens and mandeans etc, than the "it's exactly what it says on the tin" mentality of the church...

There were other reasons for these persecutions but amongst them was the resurrection (in part through the templars..) of knowledge in the 12th and 13th century of a much older kind that made the current state religion and it's texts a lot clearer... the church couldn't have that, for obvious reasons... so they started a war on the occult which lasted hundreds of years....

now, if you know what to look for, you can buy this information in books or get it on the internet... which is at least a step in the right direction from the persecution of the past...

and you asked in an earlier post about people travelling the globe before columbus etc, we know the vikings reached canada and some of the american coast... and read Plato's account of Atlantis and its location, whether atlantis was there or not, he shows great knowledge of that part of the world... which was just off americas coast.. you should read books by Manly P. Hall such as America's destiny, he was a very knowledgeable man... and you know that the first indian that the settlers met in america spoke english don't you? Squanto? he had crossed the Atlantic several times before columbus went to America... he'd even been a slave for a while in Europe and when the settlers went there he asked "do you have some beer?" as he had acquired a taste for it in Spain...

We've all sang the song "they all laughed at Christopher Columbus when he said... blah blah blah..." but it's BS. you should look into the identity of Christopher Columbus, now there's a conspiracy... there was a hidden hand in when America was made public and that's a much more interesting topic than flat earth or ancient crosses.... especially if your an American... from Amer-uca..

reply to post by Danbones

I dunno why I'm replying suddenly for the first time after years and years reading silently but this is a simple way to get my feet wet and hopefully avoid the bashing that has become commonplace on ATS sadly over the last couple years and caused my reluctance to post time and time again before. So have mercy and pity on me, I just wanted to add that I remember touring a cave from prehistoric times. So maybe southern France(?) but I remember the guide pointing out a rock painting (if it was in Lascaux caves for example we're talking 12,000BC) of a lunar eclipse (please be gentle if I mean solar I'm a linguist not a scientist...eek) which showed even the ancients knew it was caused by the sun casting the Earth's shadow on the moon. The shadow is convex as it begins showing they had to know the source, Earth, was round. Now I know ATS, they could have thought it was a flat suspended circle, the Pita Earth theory we will call it...or Tortilla (sorry I'm a hopeless Greek)...or maybe someone from the 20th century could have seen the moon with a thin line shadow across it and decided, "I'd better correct this lest we enjoy one fewer conspiracy theory in the future." But if this guy was right giving the tour, the more likely is that the ancients did indeed know about the Earth. While not as delicious as the Pita Earth nor as absurd and ironic as helpful spelunker, that's prety solid. And there are probably other members who know other examples to share but yea, I remember being told several times with compelling evidence presented that the Earth is flat stuff was never truly a belief held by any culture. I admit it is recurrant in one's literature or another's drama perhaps but I chalk it up to be an allegory for some fable or myth or as simple humor. I just wanted to add (social anxiety...I got the sosh-anx-ity like whoa!...so I'm still afraid I'm gonna get yelled at now) regarding this tour guide, his credentials I can't vouch for, he simply said that ^ up there. ::runs away before tongue lashings begin:: NO TAG BACKS!

reply to post by AlexandrosTheGreat


Welcome aboard, and interesting point.

With a name like yours, I'd expect more self esteem. Just say what you have to say, consequences be damned. There are actually people paid to berate you....so you gotta shake that off.

reply to post by AlexandrosTheGreat

very interesting post
thanks for that
yes there was the knowledge of the round earth and more then...

my contention is forces inside the church hide the knowledge from the peeps for monopolistic reasons, and the secret societies know the secrets and don't want to share....for reasons of their own...

and just knowing the cross is useful in a SHTF sort of way is tres cool

also WHAT BFFT said
hell, you read my thread this far
i only burst into flame a little bit around page one, but jeez its minus 30 degrees C out side
so its all good


its like i school when they said the greeks were dummies
they thought the universe was made of earth, air, fire, and water and here is modern phisics agreeing with the same astrology we are talking about here
earth = mass
air=thought
fire=energy
water= vibreation

energy and information are interchangeable.....

i also figured out how to turn lead into gold...but thats another thread

reply to post by Elijah23


just as side note to that maybe the chinese were here 1492ish.... Marco Polo ....
though the cross imho encompasses a lot of conspiracies...the maya had this cross too look what happed to them

thats kishi maya...as in manistu from kish in sumeria, or up north here gichi manitou

Annex 22 – Evidence of Chinese Fleets visiting British Colombia, Washington State and Oregon

www.gavinmenzies.net...

Spaniards in the Gulf of California reported seeing large Chinese junks at anchor in 1544. In a controversial book entitled 1421: The Year China Discovered America, a retired British submarine commander named Gavin Menzies has claimed a Chinese mariner named Zheng He visited the West Coast of America about one lifetime prior to Columbus. Zheng He (1371-1435 A.D.) was a eunuch whose ships ventured to Arabia and East Africa. Such expeditions were made with flotillas of more than 300 ships under the direction of Emperor Zhu Di during the Ming dynasty.

www.abcbookworld.com...

In 1512 Pope Julius II tried to explain why the Christian Bible failed to mention the American Indians and their continent. He declared that although the Indians were descendants of Adam and Eve, and therefore human, their ancestors were Babylonians who had been expelled from the Old World on account of their sins. God had apparently lost sight of them, and somehow they had managed to survive the flood.
The theory of the peopling of the Americas that became scientific orthodoxy in the mid-20th century is no less fabulous: the Americas were empty of humans until about 14,000 years ago when migrants from Northeast Asia trekked over the Bering land bridge, and with the exception of a brief visit by the Vikings in the 11th century, the first person to subsequently discover the Americas was Christopher Columbus in 1492.

More recently, the possibility of migrations up to several tens of thousands of years earlier than 14,000 BP has been accepted by many scientists. There is evidence, however, that North, Central, and South America were settled by migrants from different parts of the world over the course of millions of years, and that even in the past 5000 years explorers and traders from various continents visited the Americas before Columbus.

.....

The 13th-century explorer and spy Marco Polo was involved in many epic voyages during the 35 years he spent in the service of Kublai Khan, the Mongol ruler who established the Yuan dynasty and eventually became the first emperor of all China. There are indications that Marco Polo may even have visited the west coast of North and South America. When he finally returned to the Venetian Republic, his maps were confiscated and he was prohibited from writing about most of his travels and from publishing information on the new technologies he had witnessed. In 1428 Prince Pedro of Portugal came to Venice to obtain a copy of Marco Polo’s book and any old maps he could lay his hands on. He is said to have left with numerous documents, which may have played a key role in later Portuguese efforts to reach the Spice Islands and China ahead of their rivals – the Spaniards and Genoese.4

www.davidpratt.info...

goes with he above post bottom reference and link

Confirming the Siberian Migration

The first research on living Native American tribes showed they were comprised of four distinct mtDNA haplogroups called A, B, C, and D. This means that the Native Americans are derived from four different lineages.

These haplogroups were also found in native populations in Central and South America. Utter mtDNA research utilizing ancient remains recovered in the Americas validated these four haplogroups. Three of these haplogroups, A, C, and D are found primarily in Siberian Asia.

The B haplogroup, however, is found only in aboriginal groups in Southeast Asia. China, Japan, Melanesia, and Polynesia.

Confirming a South Pacific and Japanese Migration

Based on the mutations found in the mtDNA, most researchers think that groups A, C and D, entered America from Siberia across Beringia some time around 35.000 B.C. Group B, they assert, probably came to America from the South Pacific or Japan via boats. It is believed the B groups began this migration not long after the A, C, and D groups arrived. However, the majority of the B group arrived about 11.000 B.C. This leaves open the possibility of several migrations by the B group from different locations.

It should be noted that a few geneticists have proposed that each of these tour haplogroups came in four separate migrations. And many Clovis supporters argue that all the groups migrated together.

www.bibliotecapleyades.net...

What a wonderful find! I'll have to get Crichton Miller's book and learn how to use this versatile survival tool. I've no doubt that crosses, in one form or another, have been around from time immemorial but I think they probably meant different things to different peoples.

www.designboom.com/history/cross_2.html

****you'll have to copy/paste the link. the weather or poltergeist or malware is preventing me from linking properly****

reply to post by whitewave

A good point to consider...different meanings...

at the least though if combined with a map, chart or blueprint
you get straight square plumb and level..

i am thinking a magnet/weight in the wheel would also allow for horizontal measurements from north as well as vertical measurements from the horizon

reply to post by Danbones


The lovely punkinworks told me about this earlier, but I think it will really interest everyone in this thread too. The author says Irish, but I'm not so sure...

[It would seem that there were indeed Irish settlements all up and down the East Coast in late Viking times, just prior to the voyages made by Columbus, and that the Greenland Vikings made reference to them: some of these even had famous monasteries with libraries and books that they made themselves and chronicled life in the New World as far away as Mexico--going by the reports, that is. It is interesting that the chief of this Duhare colony was a last surviving Giant of the former Fomorians and he would be by common Roman usage, a Pict of very large stature. There is some suspicion otherwise that connects the the Adenas to the Picts, including stamps that were evidently meant to print patterns on the skin, made by the Adenas, and a similarity of Geometric and animal symbols between the two. This was another matter I had been holding back on-DD]

Frontiers of Anthropology
It's a great article, well worth the read everyone.