Russian tanks exhibited at entrance to Sevastopol, Ukraine.

victor7
Russian "near abroad" has been penetrated and Kremlin will not keep silent.

The building occupiers say "they are not authorized to talk or negotiate". This means real orders are coming from somewhere else.

Very soon, Crimea will be a part of Russia.

Hope East Ukraine also breaks away as independent country.
This will cancel the Russian fears of NATO at their doorstep and cool things down........for the rest of the world.

Let me get this straight -

You are ok with Russia invading Ukraine (or at least the eastern portion) to counter some ill conceived NATO threat?

Does that mean the West can also invade those former soviet republics t counter a resurgent Russian/Soviet Empire?

Xcathdra

victor7
Russian "near abroad" has been penetrated and Kremlin will not keep silent.

The building occupiers say "they are not authorized to talk or negotiate". This means real orders are coming from somewhere else.

Very soon, Crimea will be a part of Russia.

Hope East Ukraine also breaks away as independent country.
This will cancel the Russian fears of NATO at their doorstep and cool things down........for the rest of the world.

Let me get this straight -

You are ok with Russia invading Ukraine (or at least the eastern portion) to counter some ill conceived NATO threat?

Does that mean the West can also invade those former soviet republics t counter a resurgent Russian/Soviet Empire?

agreement in 1989 was that NATO will not expand eastwards. after 1991 when USSR dissolved, NATO started expanding given Russian situation was in shambles.

not any more. now expect Russia to stomp on any incursions into its "near abroad".........even at the cost of nuclear war with anyone.

in 1962, JFK said cuban missiles are aimed at our hearts. same situation here, Ukraine in NATO would be placing missiles next to our house.

NATO threat is ill conceived only in your views...........it is actual for Russia, China and others. Russia wants buffer between its borders vrs that of the alliance.

so you want to fight Russia and that's why propose NATO expanding constantly eastwards? in that wish, you are encouraging the resurgence of the Russian empire. history has time and again proven that Russian empire expands massively after it is attacked externally. similar to the fate of Napolean, Nazis..............NATO's will be no different!

Russia does not attack but it sure does DESTROYS it's attackers...............put this fact implanted in your mind for all times to come !!

your fears and paranoias are the main reason why US/NATO nations are massively in debt and bankruptcy.

victor7
agreement in 1989 was that NATO will not expand eastwards. after 1991 when USSR dissolved, NATO started expanding given Russian situation was in shambles.

Since the Soviet Union broke apart, why would it not be ok for former Soviet republics to align themselves with a group that could help prevent another soviet occupation?

My other question is how many of the treaties between the Soviet union / US / NATO remained in effect when the Soviet Union broke apart? In some instances those agreements can become null since the group who signed the treaty are no longer in power.

victor7
not any more. now expect Russia to stomp on any incursions into its "near abroad".........even at the cost of nuclear war with anyone.

Which only forces former soviet republics to go towards the west. By acting in the manner Putin is, the countries being targeted are not going to welcome a second occupation by Russian forces. It makes no sense.

victor7
in 1962, JFK said cuban missiles are aimed at our hearts. same situation here, Ukraine in NATO would be placing missiles next to our house.

uhm, ok. Please point out where the US / NATO would place nuclear weapons in Ukraine? Out of curiosity how much do you know about NATO's structure and how their forces operate?

A country can be a member of NATO while at the same time not allowing NATO to place forces in country. A nation can be a member of NATO without having to agree to nuclear arms being placed in country.

Are referring to missile defense instead of nuclear weapons? The ABM treaty from the 70's actually allowed the Us and USSR to develop and deploy an ABM system. The soviets built one which protected Moscow. From my research the Us never developed a system (although recently that has occurred).

NATO countries are not required to deploy an ABM system nor are they required to host ABM radar systems.

Countries can come and go from NATO without issues. see France for examples.

victor7
NATO threat is ill conceived only in your views...........it is actual for Russia, China and others. Russia wants buffer between its borders vrs that of the alliance.

Your invocation of China tells me you are not familiar with NATO. Read the charter and see who it applies to and in what area an action must occur in order for NATO to invoke article 5. Hint - it only applies to the European theatre of operations.

victor7
so you want to fight Russia and that's why propose NATO expanding constantly eastwards? in that wish, you are encouraging the resurgence of the Russian empire. history has time and again proven that Russian empire expands massively after it is attacked externally. similar to the fate of Napolean, Nazis..............NATO's will be no different!

I have no desire to see a war break out. What I find interesting is how you argue your position. You blame NATO while at the same time you seem to be ok with Russia invading former soviet republics to prevent them from joining NATO.

That mindset undermines the ability of those sovereign nations to determine their own fate. That mindset is one of the main reasons former east bloc nations approached / met with NATO.

If I lived in a former soviet satellite country I would welcome NATO if it means a resurgent Russia cant simply just re-annex.

victor7
your fears and paranoias are the main reason why US/NATO nations are massively in debt and bankruptcy.

NATO is not in debt and I am not fearful or paranoid. Secondly the Soviet Union was the one that collapsed under communism so I really don't think you want to get into a comparison on finance.

NATO is not a sovereign nation and relies on the military / financial funding from member nations. just as UN peacekeeping operations rely on the UN Charter covering military use of force under UN command.

Using your logic one could argue the same for the UN as well as Russia.

I just find it hypocritical to hold a position while ignoring the past. I find it hypocritical for Russia to dictate foreign policy for countries it does not control (like Ukraine / Georgia). NATO is not forcing these east bloc nations to join them. they are extending the invite, and as such, those nations should be allowed to either join NATO or decline.

The decision should be theirs alone.

One thing is for certain.. The more Russia keeps trying to bring back the Soviet Union, the more countries you will see from eastern bloc nations looking for West / NATO membership.

At the same time, Russia is more than welcome to invite nations to form a new eastern bloc alliance. However, when given the choice without fear of Russian invasion, I don't see those nations running back in Russia embrace.

They are sovereign nations. let them make up their own mind for what group they wish to align with.

victor7
Russia does not attack but it sure does DESTROYS it's attackers...............put this fact implanted in your mind for all times to come !!

B movie bravado dialogue aside....
Russia does not attack? uhm ok. how exactly did all of those Soviet Republics come to find themselves under Soviet occupation?
Was it not the Soviet Union that assisted Hitler by stabbing Poland in the back?
Was it not the soviet Union hat refused to allow east European nations independence once world war II was over?

Russia does not destroy its attackers. History has proven that time and again.

reply to post by Xcathdra


It would be a very good idea for everyone to leave central europe as a neutral ground between Russia and NATO.

Russia is not interested anymore in having to take care of other nations and provide for them. Mutual business is the way to go for 21st century.

The word Soviet is now obsolete and should be referred only in the history chapters. Russians will go to war with themselves if anyone tries to revive the Soviet system or rather experimentation on the human race.

There are no ends to arguments and twisting of the facts.

Btw, in the event of anymore geopolitical tensions, NATO might break apart internally itself. Heavy blows from Russia might not be needed afterall. Go figure !!

Pro-Russian Gunmen Seize Ukraine Crimean Parliament; Russia Puts Jets On High Alert; Hryvnia In Record Plunge

All those clips we showed in the past few days of Russian forces amassing in the Crimean? Well, turns out they were all predictive of what has just happened in the Crimean region parliament at Simferopol, where around 120 pro-Russian Gunmen occupied the parliament building and raised the Russian flag. The scene was the site of Wednesday’s scuffles between Tatar groups and pro-Russian supporters. As Euronews reports, local Tatar leader Refat Chubarov posted that the buildings have been occupied by men in uniforms bearing “no recognisable insignia.” Kyiv says it would regard any movements by Russian military in Crimea outside Moscow’s Black Sea Base in Sevastopol as an act of aggression. Following the fall of President Viktor Yanukovych divisions in Ukraine have come to the fore. All this happens as Russian troops in the area are building up and at the same time as Russia put fighter jets on combat alert, according to Interfax.

Euronews clarifies that the 120 men that seized Crimea parliament "have enough weapons to defend [the buildings] for a month" according an MP quoted by Interfax agency. Former Crimean Prime Minister and UDAR MP Serhiy Kunitsyn said to the agency that he spent all the night in contact with the armed group, "These professionally trained people are armed. They brought weapons - automatic weapons, grenade launchers, and machine guns," he said, while speaking from the Ukraine parliament on Thursday.

According to Bloomberg, the group is allowing deputies to enter the legislature in the city of Simferopol for a possible vote on the status of Crimea, home to Russia’s Black Sea fleet, the Center of Journalist Research said. Ukraine prosecutors began a terrorism probe. .

“Provocateurs are on the march,” Acting Interior Minister Arsen Avakov said on his Facebook Inc. page as police cordoned off the block around parliament. “It’s time for cool heads, the consolidation of healthy forces and precise actions.”

At the same time Ukraine's Foreign Ministry summoned Russia's acting envoy in Kiev for immediate consultations.

"I am appealing to the military leadership of the Russian Black Sea fleet," said Olexander Turchinov, acting president since the removal of Viktor Yanukovich last week. "Any military movements, the more so if they are with weapons, beyond the boundaries of this territory (the base) will be seen by us as military aggression

www.zerohedge.com...

More photo's and news in source.

Lol, I just had to put this in here,

2 posts back or so, I posted a few statements from kerry, adding the US will Bailout Ukraine for 1 billion.

Now this :

The following remarks by John Kerry, borne out of his humiliation over the complete fiasco that was the US intervention in Syria last year and the even greater fiasco that was this year's attempt to get all feuding parties on the table in Geneva, only to see that outcome obliterated as well, appear to be borne out of his disgust at the defunding of the US defense budget, which for Kerry, more than his gross incompetence, is the reason why the US now finds itself in a "new isolationism" leading him to conclude that the US is "beginning to act like a poor nation." One wonders what tipped him off: the fact that the US debt just hit a record high $12,424,949,144,637.28 or that the biggest monetizers of US deficit spending are the Fed, China and just as insolvent Japan?

The Crimea is gonna be the next battlefield in this conflict.From what I have gathered from reading these articles these guys who took over these buildings are not your typical neo-fascist hooligans.They sound like Spetnaz,Russian SpecOps.

mike dangerously
The Crimea is gonna be the next battlefield in this conflict.From what I have gathered from reading these articles these guys who took over these buildings are not your typical neo-fascist hooligans.They sound like Spetnaz,Russian SpecOps.

Personaly i'm inclined to think the same.
These neo fascist wannabe nazi groups just love their badges and their insignia, so everyone knows who they are.
However, these guys have just entered and taken control. They havn't beaten or killed or destroyed even returning to the police their arms and ID cards.
They have control, military discipline.

Head of Ukraine(confused who he is) is calling this a Russian invasion. And with the Russian airforce now flying on the border, looks very likely, that this is an invasion. Air force is prepping for air supiriority.

andy1972

mike dangerously
The Crimea is gonna be the next battlefield in this conflict.From what I have gathered from reading these articles these guys who took over these buildings are not your typical neo-fascist hooligans.They sound like Spetnaz,Russian SpecOps.

Personaly i'm inclined to think the same.
These neo fascist wannabe nazi groups just love their badges and their insignia, so everyone knows who they are.
However, these guys have just entered and taken control. They havn't beaten or killed or destroyed even returning to the police their arms and ID cards.
They have control, military discipline.

What I noticed right away was the lack of a ranting and raving idiot of a spokesmen these Nazi groups love to trot out.These guys are professionals they even told the negotiators that they are not authorized to negotiate.Strange choice of words.

mike dangerously

andy1972

mike dangerously
The Crimea is gonna be the next battlefield in this conflict.From what I have gathered from reading these articles these guys who took over these buildings are not your typical neo-fascist hooligans.They sound like Spetnaz,Russian SpecOps.

Personaly i'm inclined to think the same.
These neo fascist wannabe nazi groups just love their badges and their insignia, so everyone knows who they are.
However, these guys have just entered and taken control. They havn't beaten or killed or destroyed even returning to the police their arms and ID cards.
They have control, military discipline.

What I noticed right away was the lack of a ranting and raving idiot of a spokesmen these Nazi groups love to trot out.These guys are professionals they even told the negotiators that they are not authorized to negotiate.Strange choice of words.

Military Discipline or 5th column?

Xcathdra

mike dangerously

andy1972

mike dangerously
The Crimea is gonna be the next battlefield in this conflict.From what I have gathered from reading these articles these guys who took over these buildings are not your typical neo-fascist hooligans.They sound like Spetnaz,Russian SpecOps.

Personaly i'm inclined to think the same.
These neo fascist wannabe nazi groups just love their badges and their insignia, so everyone knows who they are.
However, these guys have just entered and taken control. They havn't beaten or killed or destroyed even returning to the police their arms and ID cards.
They have control, military discipline.

What I noticed right away was the lack of a ranting and raving idiot of a spokesmen these Nazi groups love to trot out.These guys are professionals they even told the negotiators that they are not authorized to negotiate.Strange choice of words.

Military Discipline or 5th column?

Now all depends from which direction the first 4 coulmns are coming from..East or West.