Consciously deciding to wake up from a dream?

reply to post by SonoftheSun

Well I would think, as is the case with me, to make that conscious decision to wake up one would need to be aware one was dreaming. Lucid. Now waking up from that state is more automatic than deliberate in my experience until you develop decent dream control. Consciously making the decision to waking up once lucid? Nah….that's your opportunity to flex your dream muscles

*Edit to add: I actually chose my name because of my interest in lucid dreaming. If you want tips and suggestions on that I can offer some.

The first lucid dream I remember is when I was attacked by some sort of entity, never felt terror like this before or since. I had to shake myself awake, and woke up 5 times before I was truly awake. I have also, believe it or not, had premonitions that have came true, not going to bother going into these though.

I'm able to control my dreams sometimes too, when I realize I'm dreaming I can consciously take over and do whatever I like, this doesn't happen as often as I'd like though. It tends to happen more often when I have had a nights sleep and go back to sleep when not quite as tired. It's like the brain gets tired of conscious thought and needs a rest to just drift, but when it's had a rest and you go back to sleep it likes to get involved.

I've been able to force myself out of dreams quite a number of times. What I'm curious about is how it is we can be conscious of the fact that we are unconscious while in a state of unconsciousness.

What is it to be conscious of being unconscious while unconscious?

Automatically waking up after realizing you are dreaming is normal. The fact that you realize that what you are experiencing is a dream is probably 3/4 of success. Some people do it naturally, but most need some training. You need to train yourself to remain calm in a dream - becoming too excited about the realization is the main factor that causes a wake up.

I think the Lucidity Institute's website has the best information about this phenomenon, I think. I remember I printed nearly all of the articles posted there and read them before going to bed or taking an afternoon nap. It really kickstarted my lucid dreams because I was excited about them more and at the same time... I read how to stay calm within the dream not to wake up.

The interesting thing is... you might think "but if I stay aware in my dreams I will be tired in the morning as if I never slept!" and it's a valid question. The answer is a bit unexpected: you wake up more rested, more relaxed and with more energy for the day.

Try and experiment with the various techniques, like MILD. Sometimes just repeating in your thoughts a phrase like "next time I dream I will remember I'm dreaming" or "next time I dream I will remain calm not to wake up instantly" before falling asleep is enough to do wonders.

Here is a lucid dreaming forum.

A Ted Talk on lucid dreaming:

Check out Rich2150x on youtube. He has alot of good info and videos on Lucid dreaming and oobe or obe (out of body experience).

Will be a massive help to you

Gamma? No The tumblr link is misinformed. As well as the second link. ETA I know it seems crazy that both of your links would be inaccurate, but in fact they are

reply to post by unb3k44n7


Ok. Thank you for your response. I too found it to seem crazy that both of my links would be inaccurate, so I messaged one of the neurologists whom I worked with in a non-invasive cardiology and neurology lab for several years. He was the guy who ordered all of the sleep studies, EEG monitoring, and performed brain surgery and such so I figured he might be a good person to ask. I told him what you said and asked him to clarify the subject and recommend some more reading material for me.

No. REM "typically" occurs during Delta and/or into Delta2. It can be prevalent during theta but It's not as "typical." In fact It's rather atypical.

REM sleep most definitely does not occur in the presence of Delta brain wave activity. You see, when Delta waves are present our brains are in our most inactive state. Dreams cannot occur if the brain is not active. During REM sleep, the most typical brain waves seen are Alpha and Theta. Theta waves are consistent with two things: a state of relaxation and decreased consciousness. Their presence during REM sleep has been linked to the theory that human dreams are simply memories that we are releasing from the subconscious part of the brain, and the Alpha waves are (linked with creativity, imagination, problem solving, and also mental relaxation/meditation) providing the embellishments that make these memories into "movies" in our brains. Beta waves are what occur during our normal "awake" state...consciously aware of everything, alert, cognizent, and the highest frequency waves of typical, waking brain activity.
Here is a nice chart Dr. V. linked to me:

www.doctorhugo.org...

When we sleep, the highest brain wave frequencies are the Alpha waves in a normal sleep cycle. That literally enables us to dream. But we are not "conscious" during that time, as is the case with Beta activity. We are tapping into the subconscious during Alpha activity, engaging our higher brain function...possibly the reason that people have epiphanies or uncover solutions to problems while they are dreaming. So what happens if we experience even higher levels of brain activity than that while we are asleep? We gain the ability to have "lucid dreams".

Gamma brain waves are even higher in frequency than Beta or Alpha waves. When we dream (REM sleep), our brains remain active while our bodies essentially become paralyzed. In order to dream, we have to have brain waves occurring at a pretty high rate of frequency...our brains are busy when we dream. Gamma waves are at such a high rate of frequency that they surpass the deep level of meditation possible with Alpha wave activity, and essentially turn the brain on "full throttle". When these waves are present, the brain can go into such a high state of activity that it transcends the state of physical being. They've done studies on Tibetan monks, with amazing findings. From the Wiki:

Experiments on Tibetan Buddhist monks have shown a correlation between transcendental mental states and gamma waves.[14][15] A suggested explanation is based on the fact that the gamma is intrinsically localized. Neuroscientist Sean O'Nuallain suggests that this very existence of synchronized gamma indicates that something akin to a singularity - or, to be more prosaic, a conscious experience - is occurring.[14] This work adduces experimental and simulated data to show that what meditation masters have in common is the ability to put the brain into a state in which it is maximally sensitive.

source

Some additional links:

www.brainandhealth.com...

www.scientificamerican.com...

I know it seems crazy that both of your links would be inaccurate, but in fact they are.

In fact, they are not.

I started doing this around age 12. It was the beginning stages of lucid dreaming. I had horrid nightmares as a kid and finally became fed up. I didn't know that it was called lucid dreaming or that it was even a thing, I just wanted things to change.

reply to post by SilverStarGazer


That is usually the reason that I make myself wake up. Either I am dreaming of something that is frightening me, or something that makes me angry or something that is just downright bizarre to the point that I don't want to think about it anymore. I can't deliberately put myself into a meditative state or a lucid dreaming state, no matter what technique I try...but for some reason once I am asleep and dreaming I can control what is happening to me effortlessly. I even debate about it sometimes: Ok, this is really weird. Do I want to wake up? Or see what happens next?. I don't tell people about that stuff too often because they typically look at me as if I have lost my mind, but I have done this my entire life and it is completely routine and "normal" to me.

reply to post by SonoftheSun


Yes, I've made a "conscious" choice to awaken from a nightmare. Something was chasing me through a dark barn and I was terrified, so I willed myself to wake up.

Thank you all so much, guys (and gals), for the great replies !

Nice to read some of your experiences and as more links were added, that should keep me busy for a while...

All I can add really, is that it was great fun to be able to take a lucid decision to wake up. When it does happen again, I will try to see if I can willfully aim the dream in the direction I want it to go, instead of choosing to wake up.

I am also really surprised that some of you have had this for years on end.

I appreciate ALL the inputs so far and I thank you, once again, for taking the time to share !!

reply to post by tigertatzen


Hate to break it to ya... But your information is still somewhat inaccurate, even after all the purported communications you claimed to have went through.

Quote from myself

REM "typically" occurs during Delta and/or into Delta2

I shall clarify.
REM is actually a paradoxically separate state of sleep. But I still stand that it occurs during delta, more specifically towards the end of delta and into Delta2, Delta2 meaning the duration at which we are transitioning back into stage 2 and 3, also known as alpha and theta, which is when lucid dreaming typically takes place. It's paradoxical because you can be in a state of wakefulness during the transition out of delta state into delta2, Delta2 which is REM, and this is also known as STAGE 5. Stage 5 is where you would place your gamma waves on the sleep cycle, if they were to occur.

When we sleep, the highest brain wave frequencies are the Alpha waves in a normal sleep cycle

False. Beta is highest frequency. It's the state we are in before sleep and continues on briefly before hitting alpha state,although it is the state we are in whist awake, it is a part of a sleep cycle due to the fact that it occurs during transition stages, known as stage 1... If you do not include gamma, which can occur, into the transition of Delta into delta2(stage5) transitioning back into 2 and 3 (alpha and theta)

It's not enough to understand what each brainwave does, but to understand the dynamics of how they transition and when.

reply to post by unb3k44n7


Did you happen to actually read any of the info I linked? Yes, REM sleep is a totally different thing than NREM sleep. But it does not occur with Delta brain waves. As for Beta waves, that is the brain activity that is used when we are awake and moving around. They do occur sometimes during REM sleep when the sleeper is experiencing moments of fear, high stress, anxiety, etc. They occur more frequently in the sleep cycles of children. From my previous post:

When we sleep, the highest brain wave frequencies are the Alpha waves in a normal sleep cycle

Once again, you are answering to something that I did not actually say. I am talking about a person who is sleeping, absent of any mental stress that would cause a disruption in a normal sleep cycle where Beta waves would not be present. In normal sleep, the highest frequency brain waves we experience are Alpha waves. This is much like the relaxed, focused brain activity we have when we are at rest and not actively moving around in our daily activities, but are completely awake. Delta waves do not occur during REM sleep. REM sleep is an active stage of sleep for the brain. Delta waves are only present during deep sleep.

REM is actually a paradoxically separate state of sleep. But I still stand that it occurs during delta, more specifically towards the end of delta and into Delta2, Delta2 meaning the duration at which we are transitioning back into stage 2 and 3, also known as alpha and theta, which is when lucid dreaming typically takes place. It's paradoxical because you can be in a state of wakefulness during the transition out of delta state into delta2, Delta2 which is REM, and this is also known as STAGE 5. Stage 5 is where you would place your gamma waves on the sleep cycle, if they were to occur.

During REM sleep, we are not "paradoxically" -or otherwise- awake. In fact, our bodies enter a state of paralysis during that state, as i have already noted previously. The brain is where all the action is taking place.

Polysomnograms show brainwave patterns in REM to be similar to that recorded during wakefulness.

Source

False. Beta is highest frequency. It's the state we are in before sleep and continues on briefly before hitting alpha state,although it is the state we are in whist awake, it is a part of a sleep cycle due to the fact that it occurs during transition stages, known as stage 1... If you do not include gamma, which can occur, into the transition of Delta into delta2(stage5) transitioning back into 2 and 3 (alpha and theta)

Yes. Beta waves are the activity in the brain before we lay down and start the process of falling asleep. Stage 1 does not include Beta waves, nor Stages 2-4. REM sleep does include Beta brain activity, under the right conditions.

It's paradoxical because you can be in a state of wakefulness during the transition out of delta state into delta2, Delta2 which is REM, and this is also known as STAGE 5. Stage 5 is where you would place your gamma waves on the sleep cycle, if they were to occur.

No. REM sleep does not happen in the presence of Delta brain waves, and no amount of insistence is going to make that true. Sleep cycles do not always occur in sequence either; for instance if you are asleep and your cycle is interrupted before you enter REM sleep, when you go back to sleep the brain will stay in REM sleep longer to "make up for" the lack of it in the previous cycle.

Gamma brain waves, as stated in the articles I linked for you, have been studied extensively and occur during periods of intense focus...for instance, during deep meditation. People who are able to induce "lucid dreaming" at will take themselves to a state of consciousness such as that seen during the study of Tibetan monks in meditation, which I also linked. They are not asleep. Their brains are operating on a higher frequency than even Beta brain activity, which is seen when we are awake and alert. Gamma waves are the highest frequency waves that have been recorded in the human brain, measuring between 25 and 100 Hz, with around 40 Hz being typical in humans. They are not part of the normal human sleep cycle, and they are not included in any known stage of sleep. They were also discovered fairly recently...they aren't measurable with the old analog electroencephalograph, so they were not explored until digital EEG came onto the scene. They are also known as "insight waves" and linked to extremely high brain functionality. I linked several sources for this info as well in my previous posts.

Hate to break it to ya... But your information is still somewhat inaccurate, even after all the purported communications you claimed to have went through. Quote from myself REM "typically" occurs during Delta and/or into Delta2

I hate to break it to you but I have consistently backed up what I am saying with documentation, which I have taken the time to link for your perusal. You, on the other hand, have yet to share any data supporting what you're saying. And you seem to be contradicting yourself quite a bit as well. I am not sure what you meant by "even after all the purported communications you claimed to have went through.", but the only "claim" I made regarding communication was that I had one conversation with my former boss, who is a neurosurgeon and knows quite a bit about the function of the human brain...and he was kind enough to indulge me. I have linked you numerous articles, case studies, and informational tools which either you failed to actually read or simply ignored altogether in favor of your opinion on how the brain works. So, I am done. I will not continue to argue with someone who makes no effort to show the validity of the statements they are making and apparently are only interested in wasting other people's time. Believe what you wish. I personally am going the actual, real, documented science route because I value credibility. Have a lovely day and Blessed Be. )O(

reply to post by tigertatzen


Your "documentation" doesn't really matter if It's inaccurate. Just because you Googled a website or two to gather your "information" it is not the same as actually 'understanding' how to put it all together and how it works.

Sorry? *shrug*

reply to post by relu84


That was intresting i never have really thought about this. I have been lucid dreaming as long as i remember, never trained to do it. About nightmares, they never seem to threathen me personally.. i have seen some bad dreams about catashrophes but i have been more like a bystander or a witnessing what happens and still been able to change a course. There has never been a threat to me or felt threathened.. sometimes its a movie what you watch from the outside.

Questions.

What triggers it? Spicy food as mentioned but I never eat spicy food..

Why some people are able to switch off their dreams from as long as they can remember and most don't?

What is the catalyst, if there is one?

Ideas?

The thing is, I started to have a change of dream patterns a couple of years ago. They seemed (and still do) more real than real life at times. A couple years later, lucid dreaming?

Is it a progression process or pattern?

Any inputs?

reply to post by SonoftheSun


you know you should go to the specialist when asking questions like these.

here is a link to check out

dream studies

reply to post by ChesterJohn


Thanks for the link !

It happened again last night but as soon as I realized I was conscious, I automatically woke up...

This is going to take a while to control I think.

Once I had a true lucid dream, where in the start, I was sitting in a simple wooden chair in the middle of a boring white room with one door, one window, and no hanging art. I thought, there is no WAY I would be in a room this boring! It must be a dream. First thought. So if it's a dream, I wonder if I can shoot lightning bolts (like I've always wanted to) from my fingers. I pointed and shot the wall, leaving a scorch mark. I walked outside and started zapping the ground, trees. It left marks but no burn, I couldn't start a fire. I tried to fly, but it didn't work. I thought, well maybe in the next dream I'll get 2 powers. But I never had another one.

So...I guess I need more training

Sorry, didnt bother to read the whole thread just now but YES

I always wear a belt (or whatever) with buttons ready to wake me up, like you would ALT-F4 when an app struggle