Parents forced to government "education" class, or government punishes children.

reply to post by seeker1963

That pretty much says everything we need to know about your replies in this thread! Everyone replying to you is actually putting some thought into their responses to you, and here you are putting out more one liners!

AND YES, THAT REPLY WAS EMOTIONAL!!!!!

Make that two cups of tea, and a couple of asprin, followed up by soaking in a bath, and booking a holiday to the country retreat for a nice long well deserved rest.

That was two lines are you happier now?

reply to post by dollukka

I think you are a bit off the tracks and comparing Hitler to these bad parents and kids is just way out of the tracks..

I was comparing them to bad cat owners.

reply to post by AthlonSavage


I think there is a big difference between a cat and a child.

Anyway, I will just say that I think, as parents, all we can do is guide them in the right direction the best we can. After that, we have to let them develop their own talents and abilities. Otherwise, you just have resentful, hateful little people that rebel against what they consider oppression.

reply to post by sheepslayer247

I think there is a big difference between a cat and a child.

Anyway, I will just say that I think that, as parents, all we can do is guide them in the right direction the best we can. After that, we have to let them develop their own talents and abilities. Otherwise, you just have resentful, hateful little people that rebel against what they consider oppression.

A bad cat roaming and killing wild life is like a bully killing innocence and intelligence. A good analogy me think.

Yes guiding in the right direction, if a car isn't staying on track then guard rails are installed, if a kid is falling off a bike then he has training wheels, if parents cant provide proper guide rails then then they will enter a government education program to teach them how to.

The bill states one of the courses would be related to physical, emotional, and sexual abuse of children.

Ya know I forgot to say this earlier, but for those who have been paying attention to the news for the past 6 years.

And the long line of teachers sleeping with their students, pretty sure they ignore that kind of 'abuse'.

And all the more reason to tell the 'state' to get lost.

reply to post by AthlonSavage


A cat is running on instinct. A bully is crying out for acceptance or to fulfill an emotional/psychological need. Big difference in my opinion.

Yes guiding in the right direction, if a car isn't staying on track then guard rails are installed, if a kid is falling off a bike then he has training wheels, if parents cant provide proper guide rails then then they will enter a government education program to teach them how to.

Guidance, no problem. But to say that a government or government programs should be the answer to bad parents is, in my opinion, ridiculous.

This entire topic goes against what it means to have personal liberties and live in a free society. Asking the government to teach "parenting skills" is laughable and we are only asking to the government to take away more freedoms to compensate for the lazy, ignorant parents.

reply to post by sheepslayer247

Guidance, no problem. But to say that a government or government programs should be the answer to bad parents is, in my opinion, ridiculous.

This entire topic goes against what it means to have personal liberties and live in a free society. Asking the government to teach "parenting skills" is laughable and we are only asking to the government to take away more freedoms to compensate for the lazy, ignorant parents.

This is a reason for having a governmental arm for moderating anti life behaviour, the fact you are on this site and accept the need and use for moderators to protect the rights of speech you consider decent attests to that.

The get of jail free card used by bad parents, oh,,,that was just bad johnny or jane being kids...being kids, needs to come to an end. The parents are hiding their own negligent failings behind their own children. I personally see bad parents as no different than child abusers, and am a staunch believer that bad parents shouldn't be allowed to have kids. Unfortunately its probably impossible to legislate on the later so the government re education classes is id say a very reasonable compromise for them.

AthlonSavage
reply to post by schuyler

 

So you trust the government to run it "correctly" according to your vision of how they ought to be run? My examples come from real life here. Yes, peanut butter sandwiches have been considered racist by a district in Oregon.

I tire of people complaining about Government. If you don't like the way they do things engage your local members, you representatives, write to your senator, run for seat on Council. This would be the appropriate way forward as it shows you are genuine and not just a emotional ranting machine.

I tire of people who avoid the issue and think calling names is a legitimate response. Your answer to everyone is to accuse them of being "emotional," yet you steadfastly refuse to address the issues. I wonder why that is. You somehow are under the impression that you are being more "logical" than anyone, yet you refuse to lay out just how this would work. We keep asking, and your inevitable reply is, "Well, you're just emotional." You have yet to address ANYTHINMG save that you like the idea and are sure this will lessen the population of bullies. That's it, a complete lack of evidence.

That's a cop out, and you're not engaging the issues.

If we have learned anything in the last generation or so, at least, it is that the phrase, "I'm from the government and I'm here to help." pretty well ensures that a cluster-**** is about to take place and that we, as citizens, will suffer. Whether we are assured we will save $2500 per year on family medical coverage and be able to keep our insurance if we like it, or whether if only we go bomb some tribal villages Al Queda will go away, or TSA making us undress in front of them will make us all safer, ALL these things represent gigantic governmental failures at our expense. Few things that the government tries actually work. So what we have allowed to be created is a government class of bureaucrats who are well-paid and well-pensioned whose job it is to make regulations for the rest of us, always at the cost of more government workers to staff these great projects.

The educational system, in particular, is demonstrably failing by almost any objective measure you care to bring up, whether it is test scores, success in further education, or even the ability to read a common newspaper at the 8th grade level. Employers are telling us they can't hire the average high school graduate because too many are illiterate and lack even basic math skills. It's the school's job to do that--not the parents, yet here we have the government deciding that if they failed at educating our students, it must all be the parent's fault, so all we have to do is educate them. Meanwhile the cost of education continues to rise to support the massive administrative overhead that has been created.

That is failure by any definition. Is it ALL the schools' fault? Of course not, but the bottom line is that the schools are failing us. And the idea that if only the schools took on educating the parents as well, everything would be peachy, is a bureaucratic delusion of the government class.

Now you can come back and say, "You are emotional" and delude yourself into thinking that is some sort of answer. It's your credibility that is at stake here, and your reputation as a serious contributor to the dialog here at ATS. I suspect you haven't really noticed it yet, but you are losing the argument. I'm thinking it's because you have nothing substantive to contribute.

reply to post by AthlonSavage


I think you have a few excellent points that I can agree on, but.....

government re education

Nope....not on my watch. That is a road to tyranny and oppression by those that think they know what "good parenting" should be.

reply to post by AthlonSavage

That's a cop out, and you're not engaging the issues.

I don't need to im not an American and its American legislation. There are a lot of emotional responses in this thread, this is an emotional issue the more reason we need to self moderate ourself to ensure our emotions don't run rampant in our long replies.

reply to post by sheepslayer247

Nope....not on my watch.

Not monitoring your kids whereabouts and activities, can be a sign of bad parenting

Well, I would have been stuck in 6th grade for the rest of my life. But then again, my mom as always afraid of me going to school and ratting her out for drug dealing.

reply to post by beezzer


Why would you wait to educate parents until their kids are practically grown? Makes no sense...

If they really wanted to help people then they should be offering education way earlier than this... I'm conflicted bc I don't agree with the nanny state, however, I do believe that people should have some training before becoming parents. It's the easiest thing to create a child and the hardest to raise it. I've spent my entire adult life taking care of kids whose parents were in desperate need of some training.

Is forcing parents into education more of a disadvantage to their children than having no parental education at all? I tend to say no...

The sad thing is that parents would need to be forced in the first place. Although not surprising, since arrogance knows no bounds, especially in 'Merica. No one can tell us what to do! We know everything! Blah.

What country are we living in again? o.O Yeah, no to this idea. A big fat NO. Offer the classes, sure, but don't force them and don't have advancement hinge on it, that's not effing fair to the kids at all.

All the advances we've made in medicine and we can't cure utter stupidity yet. *sighs* Some day, perhaps...

Im guessing some people in here have never heard that it takes a village to raise a child, parents are so un attached to there kids its sad. Taking the time to include yourself in your childrens education is a must.

But its easier to complain and say i cant be forced to be a good parent.

reply to post by dukeofjive696969

Im guessing some people in here have never heard that it takes a village to raise a child, parents are so un attached to there kids its sad.

I've heard the term and I agree about the apathy among many parents. 'Guidance' from career school admin isn't going to stand as any improvement.

I don't necessarily disagree with that Village sentiment, in some ways, and especially in how people live today in some areas like high concentration urban areas. If the village isn't helping to raise, it's often helping to corrupt, indeed.

Whatever the case there though, this is a bit different and the only village this reminds me of is Potemkin Village. We don't need that type of raising in the United States of America, in how I tend to think of things.

Hmm I have heard the phrase it takes a village to raise an idiot.

Mission accomplished !

Leave parenting to the parents. and tell the state, and the village to go stuff it.

[

This is a terrible on so many levels. I had to take a moment not to react with absolute anger as I wrote!

• I personally don't trust the government (state or federal) to run anything. I wouldn't trust them to run the local gas-station.
  
• Whilst I believe that teachers are a great tool to identify abused children, this treats all children and parents as victims and abusers.
  
• The abusers and child-neglectors will simply not attend these courses negating all benefit to the children it is designed to help.
  
• The children who will not pass the 6th grade probably needed the most help to pass the 6th grade to begin with, as someone mentioned earlier due to disparity in socioeconomic status.
  

I have to stop, I'm getting worked up again. This doesn't even go into the personal rights that parents have! Are they going to stop by next and have random tests at the home to ensure the parents are taking the 'nuggets of wisdom' home with them and applying them? Who would think this is a good idea? Wouldn't it be a much better idea to take parents who have proven to be ill-suited parents and make them attend parenting courses? Finally the most important question we can ask is why are they doing this? My opinion, control.

seeker1963
reply to post by beezzer

 

I have a better idea!

How about sending government officials to classes on how to be honest and follow the Constitution!!!!

Why is it always the fault of the "people" and not the fault of the never ending list of laws and the worthless public officials whom create them!

Freedom and liberty my $#@!

This is the best answer. And ASAP!

reply to post by beezzer


How about some truth in headlines, @Beezer, i.e. "Parent's would be forced...blah, blah, blah if bill is enacted"?

As is, your headline is an outright lie.

As to the bill itself, it sounds ridiculous. I don't see it passing, so I don't understand why you or Fox 'n Friends are bellyaching about it. There are lots of stupid bills that get proffered each year in Congress and all 50 state houses, but most thankfully don't pass. Why all the butt hurt over this inane one?