How come we can see all matter even despite being limited in seeing a range of frequency?

reply to post by Phage


Well we wouldn't be able to see it... yet it would still be matter. So it applies right?

reply to post by doompornjunkie

Maybe.
Is it really matter? Does it really matter?
I mean, if it doesn't do anything.

reply to post by Phage


Nice bit of fiction: Twistor

A bit dated, but the MacGuffin of the book is that "dark matter" is actually the gravitational influence of a small number of other universes that are a dimensional rotation away. You can't perceive them or detect them except by their gravitational shadow. And since the resulting gravitational sinks attract matter in each discrete universe, you generally have some overlap between massive objects in the various universes which makes it really tough to directly detect the shadows, as they've got 'real' matter in them that swamps any detector you might use.

Of course, for the purposes of the novel they find a way to rotate matter into the other universes so they can be explored. But it was a fun read.

reply to post by Bedlam

Or, more simply, the spirit world doesn't exist…

A simple answer from simpler minds…

"I can't see it so therefore it does't exist."

The flat earth society has spoken.

reply to post by Phage


It's still matter, so it does matter as a matter in fact.

intrptr
A simple answer from simpler minds…

"I can't see it so therefore it does't exist."

The flat earth society has spoken.

Show me any actual proof, or it's going to be "It doesn't exist, so I can't see it"

The empiricist society has spoken.

eta: something that can't be measured or detected except by true believers in circumstances that can only generate subjective data isn't, in general, worth considering. It degenerates into True Belief. I don't share your faith that spirits exist. While totally subjective "proof" such as testimonies of OBEs or NDEs seem confirmatory to you, from my viewpoint they're not proof at all.

doompornjunkie
reply to post by Phage

 

It's still matter, so it does matter as a matter in fact.

If it's matter that doesn't matter, it isn't matter. The matter of your putative matter as you state isn't detectable and doesn't interact with real matter. Matter that doesn't have the attributes of matter isn't matter so it doesn't matter.

reply to post by Bedlam


Just because we cannot detect it with instruments that consist of 'our' matter doesn't mean it doesn't matter. It would definitely matter to beings that may inhabit a universe made of that matter... so it does matter, just not matter to people who can't seem to think outside of the box.

reply to post by doompornjunkie

Your argument is immaterial.
Less than ephemeral.
It does not exist.

doompornjunkie
reply to post by Bedlam

 

Just because we cannot detect it with instruments that consist of 'our' matter doesn't mean it doesn't matter. It would definitely matter to beings that may inhabit a universe made of that matter... so it does matter, just not matter to people who can't seem to think outside of the box.

If it can't be detected and it has no interaction with our matter, then it will forever be a conjecture. I would immediately take the position that it does not exist. But even if it did exist, if we can't detect or interact with it, then you'll never know and it doesn't matter.

eta: it's on the order of stating that invisible fairies paint the colors on flowers. As you can't prove a negative, I can't prove that they DON'T, but you can't prove that they do, and it seems unreasonable to depend on the assumption.

etaa: Let me guess...where we're going with this is the tired old trope that the reason we've never had any real proof of little space buddies is that they hide in some alternate dimension when you actually look for them, like some sort of technoversion of Mr Mxyzptlk?

It's a lot more straightforward to simply assume they don't exist...then all the inconsistencies go away.

Bedlam

Kukri
reply to post by Bedlam

 

Let me get this right. So you are saying matter doesn't emit EM radiation?

Nope, matter that's above absolute zero emits EM all the time, the wavelength of which is related to the temperature. But matter itself is not EM radiation, and is not "on the electromagnetic spectrum".

Unless you're talking matter that's very very hot, you're not going to get matter emitting radiation in the visible spectrum anyway. Note that "emit" and "reflect" are very different things.

Thanks for the clarification. You had me a tad confused there.

Kukri
Thanks for the clarification. You had me a tad confused there.

I think the OP sums up this form of thinking pretty well in this post:

Think you are missing the point.

So what matter exists in the microwave range?

Why wouldn't we bump into this matter? Does this matter exist in our world or is it in another dimension?

-Nexusnews

It seems as if he's confusing tangibility with visual perception, if you can't "see it" it isn't real. Also, it's an explicit statement about matter "existing in the microwave range" as if it were itself EM. Not radiating or reflecting EM in that band, but actually EM, with the implication being if it were EM in the human visual range, you could touch it and if not you could not.

I see it as being similar to when my kids were 3 or 4 years old and thought they could become invisible by covering their eyes.

reply to post by Nexusnews


You are correct physics is flawed, All atoms are being propagated or generated. Sub atomic particles fly in and construct electrons etc and then break apart flying off faster than the speed of light. In other words nothing is solid, not real, only generated when an observer is observing.we see the oak tree in our yard for 20 years but it has been destroyed trillions of times per nano second and rebuilt to look solid or a constant.So in conclusion there are no constants, just the illusion that there are physical laws that matter abides to

Good cleanup before I could make it in. I will not add anything more to the debate per say, but i will recommend that if you want to understand optical properties of materials... you should consult this book

Optical Properties of Solids, by Professor Mark Fox.

Basically covers the subject very well, and, being an EW systems engineer, I'm sort of shocked at the level of the comments produced. Oh well, likely a cat pretending to be a dog

reply to post by Bedlam

Show me any actual proof, or it's going to be "It doesn't exist, so I can't see it"

Sorry about the flat earth quip.

Absolute proof either way doesn't exist. But neither does any possible proof exist for the skeptic.

Please don't lump me with "pie in the eye" believers.

Theres a big difference between what you call "believers" and actual witnesses.

All I can do is share with you my own experience…

www.abovetopsecret.com...

reply to post by Nexusnews


High energy articles emitted by black holes are in the X-Ray range. You can't see them with your eye but they definitely exist. If the element Lead (Pb) was intelligent would it be able to feel the X-Rays being imbedded into itself? If you had Lead in your molecular structure it's possible you would 'feel' X-Rays. If you had Lead in the molecular structure of your eyes you may be able to 'see' X-Rays as well.

reply to post by Krakatoa


Pretty much.

You answered that question.

Thanks for playing.

nvm

reply to post by Nexusnews


Good question. S&F

I think the answer is the color black.

MrInquisitive
reply to post by Nexusnews

 

Do you see oxygen, nitrogen, CO2, hydrogen or helium, amongst other gases? most molecules are made up of a variety of atoms, which radiate at different frequencies. We see those frequencies we can see, and don't see the ones we can't.

The reason you don't see the molecules in the air is because the density is too low. Not because they're some color you can't see. If you condense these gases into liquid, increasing their density, you can see them just fine. Oxygen is blue.