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Romans 13 and Ephesians 6:12(Thanks to 3NL1GHT3ND1)

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posted on Feb, 22 2014 @ 01:51 PM
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reply to post by the2ofusr1
 

It isn't hard to know because records were kept of all of them, at least since 1945.
Like I said, there were some Jews there, but they were not all necessarily zionists and a lot of them could have been there for hundreds of years or longer.
The ones who created Israel and went to war against the inhabitants of Palestine were the Polish Ashkenazi.

edit on 22-2-2014 by jmdewey60 because: (no reason given)




posted on Feb, 22 2014 @ 02:23 PM
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reply to post by 3NL1GHT3N3D1
 


You said that if those people and Jesus were innocent, then the highlighted parts would be proven false. That is true, but only if that Scripture is taken alone. The context of that passage gives them powers over aspects concerning law, and trial as I stated above. As Jesus told Pilate in John 19 the power to judge his trial was given to him by God this is in completely coherent with Romans 13. Your ignoring the fact that Satan has the ability to give authority of all the land, and that Scripture tells us that all of the government will eventually choose Satan over God. Meaning even though the God appoints his leaders over what the Law says, it is intellectually dishonest to say that they cannot sin, for all men are sinners. That passage tells us that God uses governments as instruments to do his will on Earth. It goes on to state that the Law they are meant to protect is love. If a government cease to do that it has chosen to follow Satan's Will. Pilate was given a choice by God in John 19. What Jesus tells Pilate is far more meaningful when taken with the rest of Scripture. Jesus tells him that the power is given to him from above(meaning God knows Pilate will sacrifice Jesus), and that the ones who brought them to Pilate had greater Sin. Jesus(who is the Son the Father and the Spirit in the flesh) purposely came here to die, and this is the time God willed it be done. A man chose an evil choice that in the end lead to the salvation of all humanity, and if God willed pilot to sacrifice Jesus an innocent man, does that make him evil? No. Jesus is GOd. God chose to die, and being one being that mean Jesus will was that he be put to death for mankind. You cannot take those highlighted portions away from the rest of the message and call it false.



posted on Feb, 22 2014 @ 02:24 PM
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reply to post by jmdewey60
 


So do they claim any tribal association ? It wouldn't surprise me that they didn't but has anyone tried to document this and provide like dna reference ?



posted on Feb, 22 2014 @ 04:08 PM
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I think you hit the nail on the head. Basically, for those who love God, ALL things work together for good. Some rulers may be corrupt, but that injustice is always used to discipline apostate groups of people. Look at the Anti-Christ for example:"the rod of my wrath". The Anti-Christ will be a world leader, and his evil will be used to bring the remaining of Israel to repentance.

As for the tired old Ashkenazi issue, the whole thing is a red herring. The Zionist movement, the illegal Israeli occupation of Palestine, the post WWII psuedo-Exodus of "Jews" to Palestine, its all a big counterfeit of Old Testament prophecy which cannot be truely fulfilled during the Church's residence on earth.

Many Hebrew Rabbis traveled to the Caucus mountains to spread Judaeism to the Caucasians. Im sure that some intermarried with the population, making some of the Ashkenazim true Hebrews. Its probably a small percent. The point is, it doesnt matter. The Hebrews are no more regathered today than they were before 1948, or even 1000 years before that.

Jesus will regather the true faithfull Children of Israel Himself, when His feet touch down on the Mount of Olives. Some may be in Palestine at that time, some will have fled from Revived Babylon, but for the most part, many will still be scattered all over the earth until His glorious return.



posted on Feb, 22 2014 @ 04:16 PM
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ServantOfTheLamb
So awhile back I posted a Thread asking for people to point out any logical flaws within the Bible. I quit replying on the thread, ...

.... and you need to go back on that thread and address the fact that you issued a challenge for people to prove the bible wrong, and I did just that. You have not acknowledged that fact. - A Game of Logic: The Holy Spirit and I VS ALL NoN-believers



posted on Feb, 22 2014 @ 06:00 PM
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reply to post by the2ofusr1
 

So do they claim any tribal association ? It wouldn't surprise me that they didn't but has anyone tried to document this and provide like dna reference ?
I suppose "Jew" taken as a term, would be in itself a claim of tribal affiliation.
DNA will tell you that in fact a self-described Jew is Ashkenazi, but it will not show that their ancestry goes back to the Middle East.
They are Caucasian.
edit on 22-2-2014 by jmdewey60 because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 22 2014 @ 06:07 PM
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reply to post by BELIEVERpriest
 

. . . Old Testament prophecy which cannot be truly fulfilled during the Church's residence on earth.
There is no New Testament description of the inhabited earth without the church.
The Old Testament prophecies that you are probably thinking of were about the rebuilding after Babylon was conquered by the Persians.
Those were already fulfilled.
The confusion comes from the figurative nature of some of these prophecies, that can never be literally fulfilled.



posted on Feb, 22 2014 @ 06:37 PM
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jmdewey60
reply to post by BELIEVERpriest
 

. . . Old Testament prophecy which cannot be truly fulfilled during the Church's residence on earth.
There is no New Testament description of the inhabited earth without the church.
The Old Testament prophecies that you are probably thinking of were about the rebuilding after Babylon was conquered by the Persians.
Those were already fulfilled.
The confusion comes from the figurative nature of some of these prophecies, that can never be literally fulfilled.


From the First Trumpet of Revelation on to the return of Christ with His Hosts, there is no Church residence on the earth. I know you disagree with my mostly literal interpretation of the prophecies, but there are still prophecies to be fulfilled.



posted on Feb, 22 2014 @ 07:20 PM
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FlyersFan

ServantOfTheLamb
So awhile back I posted a Thread asking for people to point out any logical flaws within the Bible. I quit replying on the thread, ...

.... and you need to go back on that thread and address the fact that you issued a challenge for people to prove the bible wrong, and I did just that. You have not acknowledged that fact. - A Game of Logic: The Holy Spirit and I VS ALL NoN-believers


Let me go review your comment. I probably have not read it. I wanted to see if Romans 13 and Ephesians 6:12 were actually contradictory to to each other if they were there would be no reason in believing that the Bible is the word of God.



posted on Feb, 22 2014 @ 07:34 PM
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reply to post by BELIEVERpriest
 

From the First Trumpet of Revelation on to the return of Christ with His Hosts, there is no Church residence on the earth.
Revelation does not describe a "return of Christ".
According to your markers (guessing your second reference was of the Heavenly Warrior vision), half of Revelation has nothing to do with the church.

edit on 22-2-2014 by jmdewey60 because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 22 2014 @ 07:59 PM
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reply to post by jmdewey60
 


Revelation peeks with the return of Christ, and describes the Millenium, Eternal State, and New Jerusalem towards the end.

Half of Revelation omits the Church, because the Church is removed at the start of the 70th week.



posted on Feb, 22 2014 @ 08:32 PM
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reply to post by BELIEVERpriest
 

Revelation peeks with the return of Christ . . .
Can you explain what a "return of Christ" is and where it describes that in the Bible?

Half of Revelation omits the Church . . .
So what is the purpose of all that extra filler, if the people Revelation is written to are not going to be around for any of it?
edit on 22-2-2014 by jmdewey60 because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 22 2014 @ 09:06 PM
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reply to post by jmdewey60
 


Rev 19:11-19 describes the return of Christ as King of kings. The Sixth Seal is a preview of the event.

Revelation was provided to set the record straight regarding the resumption of the OT prophecies. Everything covered from the 1st Trumpet to the 7th vial is covered in the OT. Revelation ties it all together by using the Seals to summarize the transition from Church to Israel's 70th week, then the Trumpets and Vials take us step by step through the 70th week.

The as the Body of Christ, the Church was given Revelation so that we may know Jesus' game plan and to know that Jesus has not forgotten about us. He will return. While we are not part of the Tribulation, we will be observing it from Heaven.



posted on Feb, 22 2014 @ 09:29 PM
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reply to post by BELIEVERpriest
 

Rev 19:11-19 describes the return of Christ as King of kings.
So where are any of the OT prophecies supposedly fulfilled in there?
And according to your scenario, the "second coming" has nothing to do with Jesus and his believers.
This seems to contradict everything in the NT about Jesus, where it actually names him, where you seem to prefer another person not named Jesus, as your god or whatever.
The "Heavenly Warrior" character in this vision seems clearly enough to me to be figurative in nature where the reality behind it is in his name, The Word of God, where truth prevails over trickery and lies.



posted on Feb, 22 2014 @ 09:47 PM
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reply to post by jmdewey60
 


Jesus is the King of kings. Read 1 Timoth 6:13-16, it plainly states Jesus' title as King of kings. So, Jesus' 2nd Coming will be for the remnant of His believers. That is my God.

I honestly dont know where you get your ideas.



posted on Feb, 22 2014 @ 10:10 PM
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reply to post by BELIEVERpriest
 

Jesus is the King of kings. Read 1 Timoth 6:13-16, it plainly states Jesus' title as King of kings.
It doesn't.
This is another example of somewhat ambiguous sentence structure in the Greek text.
In the 2011 NIV translation, it gives the alternative translation which says that God is King of Kings.

13 In the sight of God, who gives life to everything, and of Christ Jesus, who while testifying before Pontius Pilate made the good confession, I charge you 14 to keep this command without spot or blame until the appearing of our Lord Jesus Christ, 15 which God will bring about in his own time—God, the blessed and only Ruler, the King of kings and Lord of lords, 16 who alone is immortal and who lives in unapproachable light, whom no one has seen or can see. To him be honor and might forever. Amen.

So, Jesus' 2nd Coming will be for the remnant of His believers.
That doesn't fit in with what you are saying about Revelation 19 and the rider on the white horse.

That is my God.
You are worshiping a doctrine made up from taking a figurative illustration in a vision, and making it a literal thing, sort of like a golden calf.

I honestly don't know where you get your ideas.
What ideas?
I'm just demanding some sort of explanation when you are making these grand claims about Christians being removed from the earth to make way for some sort of Jewish world empire.
edit on 22-2-2014 by jmdewey60 because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 22 2014 @ 11:21 PM
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reply to post by jmdewey60
 


The Beast from the Abyss of Revelation is the Assyrian ("rod of mine anger") of the OT. The 6th Seal is found in Joel 2:31. It is the Day of the Lord the Return of Christ as King of kings. The living object in the temple in the middle of Revelation is the Abomination that causes desolation as identified in Daniel.

If you draw the lines and connect the dots between the events of the First Trumpet thru the 7th Vial and the OT prophecies, it is obvious that Jesus is the one returning as King of kings. There is no other.

Not every thing in the Bible is purely allegorical. Let the Word of God speak for itself and the truth will become obvious.

If you have not yet accepted Christ as saviour, and undrestand that He is the Scapegoat for all of our sins, then it is useless trying to understand the prophecies.

One needs to be baptized in the Holy Spirit to truely understand the wisedom of God, and if one is not washed in the Blood of of the Lamb, then one is not baptized in the Holy Spirit.

1Corinthians 3:16-20

Do you not know that you are a temple of God and that the Spirit of God dwells in you? 17 If any man destroys the temple of God, God will destroy him, for the temple of God is holy, and that is what you are.

18 Let no man deceive himself. If any man among you thinks that he is wise in this age, he must become foolish, so that he may become wise. 19 For the wisdom of this world is foolishness before God. For it is written, “He is THE ONE WHO CATCHES THE WISE IN THEIR CRAFTINESS”; 20 and again, “THE LORD KNOWS THE REASONINGS of the wise, THAT THEY ARE USELESS.”

I follow the doctrine that is clearly revealed in God's own word.

You can follow your doctrine if you like, but do not say it is of the bible.
edit on 22-2-2014 by BELIEVERpriest because: added text



posted on Feb, 22 2014 @ 11:49 PM
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reply to post by BELIEVERpriest
 

The Beast from the Abyss of Revelation is the Assyrian ("rod of mine anger") of the OT.
Huh?
What would make you think that, unless someone wants to make up something to fit current events to make people think that the Apocalypse is coming tomorrow or some day very close to it.
Equating Assyria, an ancient kingdom, with modern Syria which was an invention of the Western powers after WW I.
That quote is from Isaiah and is obviously about what was current events when the norther kingdom of Israel fell and Judea was soon to follow, to be taken by Babylon.



posted on Feb, 22 2014 @ 11:56 PM
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reply to post by BELIEVERpriest
 

The 6th Seal is found in Joel 2:31.
It uses similar imagery to evoke a sense of impending doom, for someone, but in Revelation it is probably the natural world system.
The "Prophecy" I meant was what is all the good things for Israel that supposedly never got fulfilled.

It is the Day of the Lord the Return of Christ as King of kings.
Obviously it isn't, since there is more earthly things yet to happen in Revelation and what is being described there is nothing short of the total collapse of the universe itself.
Not that I think that is going to happen, but it is more of this visionary figures that are a metaphor to what is really happening, which is the futility of holding onto an obsolete system that thrives on the looting of weaker countries.
Plus the other thing, that there is The Lord who is Jesus, and then there is the Lord of Lords, who is God Himself who makes it possible for Jesus to have the position that he does.

The living object in the temple in the middle of Revelation is the Abomination that causes desolation as identified in Daniel.
There is no "thing" in Daniel that is an abomination of desolation.
The abomination is that there is a desolation.
The desolation is the result of an overwhelming military attack.
According to Jesus, that was done by the Romans in 70 AD.
There are the four living creatures in the throne room of the Ancient of Days.
I don't otherwise know what you are talking about.

If you draw the lines and connect the dots between the events of the First Trumpet thru the 7th Vial and the OT prophecies, it is obvious that Jesus is the one returning as King of kings. There is no other.
John draws on imagery of disastrous happenings from the Old Testament to illustrate the idea that there are consequences to refusing to repent from sin, which is the nature of the predatory world system that plunders as a way to gain wealth.
You have yet to convince me that the King of Kings is anyone other than God.
edit on 23-2-2014 by jmdewey60 because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 23 2014 @ 12:22 AM
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reply to post by BELIEVERpriest
 

If you have not yet accepted Christ as saviour, and understand that He is the Scapegoat for all of our sins, then it is useless trying to understand the prophecies.
Jesus is never described in the Bible as a scapegoat.
So exactly why should I believe that, then, unless I want to start worshiping human doctrines?

One needs to be baptized in the Holy Spirit to truly understand the wisdom of God, and if one is not washed in the Blood of of the Lamb, then one is not baptized in the Holy Spirit.
This looks like some sort of philosophy to me.
I was given a biblical Christian baptism which includes it being done in the name of the Holy Spirit, along with the Father and the Son.
"Blood of the Lamb" in Revelation means dying the death of a martyr.

I follow the doctrine that is clearly revealed in God's own word.
Seems rather convoluted to me, and a lot like modern philosophy only very loosely based on the Bible, and apparently invented to support zionist efforts in Palestine and other monopolistic ventures.

You can follow your doctrine if you like, but do not say it is of the bible.
My doctrine is to read the Bible for what it says, rather than adopting a bunch of beliefs and then looking for anything we can twist to make it look like it supports that belief.
edit on 23-2-2014 by jmdewey60 because: (no reason given)



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